Coco pros, please help me step up my transplanting game

lastmob

Member
Hello,
After hundreds of hours of reading the forums and several attempts I still cannot seem to get the transplanting/pre-charging of coco right. The plants shoot up 3-4 weeks after transplant so I assume that I don't prepare the coco correct, they suffer from lockouts/deficiencies for a while and after the buffer is filled they recover.

Last time I actually used Canna so I have no excuse :) I know most people suffer from salt toxicities from fresh coco but I believe I "undercharged it". I always put the coir in a bin with holes on the bottom I check the run off of the solution I run through it.

This last Canna had very good EC levels of 0.6 EC and I poured a balanced solution of Micro/bloom, Silica, Epson and Nitric acid. EC 1.2-1.3 with starting tap water EC of 0.4 (about 170-190 ppm carbonates, 60ppm Ca, 10ppm Mg). ph of 5.8-6.

I only ran enough to get the run off to 0.8-0.9 ... Quite stupid. The plants looked pale and weak before I run some stronger solution through, now they are perking up and greening up nicely.

I also must say that after I moisten the coco I squeeze every bit of moisture I can and put it in 4-6l fabric pots trying not to pack it down too much. I also try to water slowly.

My questions:
1. I am considering the idea that perhaps by just running the solution through the media I am not charging it well enough. Do you think a thorough soak for some time and then squeezing moisture out and using it will be better?

2. In this connection, and this might be a dumb question, but does the speed of watering influence the amount of cation exchange that takes place? In other words, does cation exchange need some time to occur or does it happen immediately as you are flushing the coir?

3. I know bagged Canna is supposed to be buffered but is it worth increasing the Ca and Mg in the nutes for the initial prep just to be sure?

4. How much do you tamp down the coco around the rootball when transplanting?

5. I notice the ph of the solution stays very stable if the rez is covered but increases if it is not. Is it safe to assume that this means it will also gradually increase in the root zone or is it that the coir chemistry might influence it in all sorts of ways?

On ICMag most advised me to just dump the coir in the pot, put the plant in and start feeding. I feel that will make the coco too wet for too long in the beginning but I will give it a try next time.

Any other suggestions are welcome. Thanks for your time :)
 

East_LA

Member
1. thoroughly soaking will most definitely be superior for "pre-charging" media.
2. slightly slower watering will likely be superior but unless pots are being flooded with solution its probably a negligible difference.
3. this depends on the levels of cal mag in your nutrient program, its probably unlikely since you mentioned running 0.4 EC tap water.
4. this depends on alot of factors again, but if youre using coco/perlite tamping down for stability is fine as the medium still retains excellent aeration. if you're running pure coco youd be best to tamp down much lighter to prevent compacting the medium.
5. rootzone pH is mainly influenced by the inflowing nutrient solutions pH, ideally your res pH would be stable within the optimal range and you'd use that as a proxy for your rootzone pH, alternatively there are some probes that you can stick directly into coco that measure rootzone pH directly however they're very expensive.

just wanted to mention a few suggestions that i think might be really beneficial
- 0.4 EC tap water is quite high, i'd really consider getting RO. consider that @1.3EC about 30% of your nutrient solution EC is tap water, i feel like this would make a large difference in reducing the occurrence of deficiencies, lockouts and other nutrient issues. i think the potential problems RO prevents is worth the additional cost, it really gives you full control starting with nearly 0 EC.
-1.3 EC with 0.4EC being tap water is likely insufficient nutrient for your plants, you mentioned you raised EC and the plants responded positively, its definitely not coincidental. these plants can take very high salinity levels, EC well over 1.5-1.8+ in veg and 2.5+ in flower is easily tolerated and typically is optimal depending on your setup.
-keep a close eye on run-off EC, while ignoring run-off pH. you mentioned you fed to 0.9 runoff ec with a 1.3 solution, this probably indicates you're underfeeding and you'd be best served by increasing feeding frequency and/or nutrient EC.
- if you aren't already, id really recommend atleast 20-30% perlite in your coco medium. this optimises air porisity and pretty much eliminates risk of overwatering since roots have sufficient oxygen even if the medium is 100% saturated with solution.
-cal mag requirements are extremely cultivar dependent, it would be best to adjust dosage with how plants respond which requires identifying early signs of deficiency like yellowing between veins of leaves etc, foliar feeding plants with a partial dose of cal mag enables much more instantaneous nutrient uptake so i'd recommend doing this when you do see early signs of deficiency.

long answer but i hope it helped!
 

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
You've gotten a good response already, so I'll just say, bagged Canna is good right out of the bag. You definitely don't need to pre-charge it by soaking, but what I would do is thoroughly water it with calmag a week before you transplant, that gives it time to lose enough moisture so it's not sopping wet by the time you transplant. Your starting ec is high, but it can still work with coco, as the other guy said, you just have to be sure you're getting enough of your actual nutrient solution to the plants. Depending on what is actually in your starting water, you might not even need calmag, you might just need a bit of epsom salts, or even neither at all-That's one of the reasons people will tell you to use RO water, you know EXACTLY what you're starting with. I highly recommend dusting your roots with a mycorrhizae product, or one of the mixed myco/bacillus/trichoderma products, and if you have any Aloe Vera plants handy or want to spring for some 100% aloe juice, nothing I've used grows rapid healthy root mass like some aloe water-I use a Tablespoon per liter for roots (i also put a teaspoon in my foliars). I think you'll do well this time, you're pretty tuned into your EC and are keeping a close eye on your plants-that's all you really need to do to have a successful grow. Good luck, I wish you the best harvest ever!
 

Trickyticky

Well-Known Member
Please link me to where I’ve ever said that?

Back in your corner you noob fucking troll.

Also I see you're following my journal now, take notes.
No not following just liked ya set up and plants that's all MATE .
Wind ya neck back in dog breath. Hahahaha , why would I take notes from your grow when I'm very happy with what I do myself , hahahaha
RICHARD
 

Trickyticky

Well-Known Member
No not following just liked ya set up and plants that's all MATE .
Wind ya neck back in dog breath. Hahahaha , why would I take notes from your grow when I'm very happy with what I do myself , hahahaha
RICHARD
But then again you the 1 that's trolling , ya seam to comment on everything I say , so u the troll ,,,,, RICHARD HEAD . Hahahahaha
 

H G Griffin

Well-Known Member
Wind ya neck back in dog breath.
But then again you the 1 that's trolling , ya seam to comment on everything I say , so u the troll ,,,,, RICHARD HEAD . Hahahahaha
Nope, pretty clear who the troll is in this situation. It's the incoherent one that can't properly use it's own language and resorts to childish name calling in any situation that make it feel the tiniest bit threatened.

Save pounding out a "clever" insult, you're on the ignore list. It's nice when you guys mark yourselves so clearly.
 

lastmob

Member
1. thoroughly soaking will most definitely be superior for "pre-charging" media.
2. slightly slower watering will likely be superior but unless pots are being flooded with solution its probably a negligible difference.
3. this depends on the levels of cal mag in your nutrient program, its probably unlikely since you mentioned running 0.4 EC tap water.
4. this depends on alot of factors again, but if youre using coco/perlite tamping down for stability is fine as the medium still retains excellent aeration. if you're running pure coco youd be best to tamp down much lighter to prevent compacting the medium.
5. rootzone pH is mainly influenced by the inflowing nutrient solutions pH, ideally your res pH would be stable within the optimal range and you'd use that as a proxy for your rootzone pH, alternatively there are some probes that you can stick directly into coco that measure rootzone pH directly however they're very expensive.

just wanted to mention a few suggestions that i think might be really beneficial
- 0.4 EC tap water is quite high, i'd really consider getting RO. consider that @1.3EC about 30% of your nutrient solution EC is tap water, i feel like this would make a large difference in reducing the occurrence of deficiencies, lockouts and other nutrient issues. i think the potential problems RO prevents is worth the additional cost, it really gives you full control starting with nearly 0 EC.
-1.3 EC with 0.4EC being tap water is likely insufficient nutrient for your plants, you mentioned you raised EC and the plants responded positively, its definitely not coincidental. these plants can take very high salinity levels, EC well over 1.5-1.8+ in veg and 2.5+ in flower is easily tolerated and typically is optimal depending on your setup.
-keep a close eye on run-off EC, while ignoring run-off pH. you mentioned you fed to 0.9 runoff ec with a 1.3 solution, this probably indicates you're underfeeding and you'd be best served by increasing feeding frequency and/or nutrient EC.
- if you aren't already, id really recommend atleast 20-30% perlite in your coco medium. this optimises air porisity and pretty much eliminates risk of overwatering since roots have sufficient oxygen even if the medium is 100% saturated with solution.
-cal mag requirements are extremely cultivar dependent, it would be best to adjust dosage with how plants respond which requires identifying early signs of deficiency like yellowing between veins of leaves etc, foliar feeding plants with a partial dose of cal mag enables much more instantaneous nutrient uptake so i'd recommend doing this when you do see early signs of deficiency.

long answer but i hope it helped!
Thanks, I believe that's sound advice, the EC levels seem high to my experience and research; however, I agree I seem to have been underfeeding young plants chronically. I have access to filtered water and I have been cutting tap water to different ratios but I barely do anymore because I have access to the water report and know what is in it. I believe the plants can do well with the Ca, Mg and S in the tap. I am seriously considering perlite.

I actually transplanted a few clones today. Used Canna coco straight out the bag, put the clones in without tamping, and watered slowly with a 1.3EC 5.9pH solution equal to the volume of the cup (300ml each). The run off EC got to 1.3 easily; however the run off pH was 5-5.1. I know not to worry too much about it but still I wonder why that happens.

Thanks again
 
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