Crisis in the Ukraine

Will there be war?

  • NATO will do nothing

    Votes: 32 80.0%
  • NATO will confront Russia

    Votes: 8 20.0%

  • Total voters
    40

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Wait- Russia is attacking Americans? Where?
Are you being purposefully thick, or are you pretending like the attack taking place in all of our homes and businesses is not real?

In the last teleconference, Putin got everything he wanted, in large part because his demands were reasonable; let us never forget that America has been OVER THERE, fucking with THEM and not the other way around for most of a century.
Shit isn't this version of Russia only what 50 years old?

Of course Putin gets everything he wants, that is what dictators do with their state sponsored propaganda.


Putin wants peace in Ukraine; the Ukrainian Nazis (look them up, that's exactly what they call themselves) are the belligerents. Putin wants a buffer between Russia and NATO because NATO has proven itself to be aggressive and untrustworthy. That's why things will stay as they are in eastern Ukraine.

The Ukraine will not become part of NATO because they're by far the most corrupt country in Europe and because it would be a trigger for war with Russia, a war Russia is very much prepared to fight and win decisively. I repeat, they don't want a fight; they want trade, including the Nordstream II pipeline, which Europe also wants.
Screen Shot 2021-12-23 at 9.54.00 AM.png

Watch the video I posted. Yes, it's long but it covers a lot of ground from history to players to goals and risks.
Why? Is the 'Grey Zone' credible?

Because just a quick look at it smells of some real 'left-troll' kind of shit.

lol, looking a step further into who it is that runs the show and his latest tweet is some bullshit about Assange, who helped smuggle stolen NSA files to help the Russian military in their attack on our citizens. Give me a break man.

Screen Shot 2021-12-23 at 9.58.06 AM.png
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Are you being purposefully thick, or are you pretending like the attack taking place in all of our homes and businesses is not real?


Shit isn't this version of Russia only what 50 years old?

Of course Putin gets everything he wants, that is what dictators do with their state sponsored propaganda.



View attachment 5052308


Why? Is the 'Grey Zone' credible?

Because just a quick look at it smells of some real 'left-troll' kind of shit.

lol, looking a step further into who it is that runs the show and his latest tweet is some bullshit about Assange, who helped smuggle stolen NSA files to help the Russian military in their attack on our citizens. Give me a break man.

View attachment 5052318
If you only look a one side of a situation, you'll never get a balanced view.

And if you think MSDNC, CNN, Fix News, etc are credible sources, I've got a bridge to sell you!
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
If you only look a one side of a situation, you'll never get a balanced view.

And if you think MSDNC, CNN, Fix News, etc are credible sources, I've got a bridge to sell you!
Sweet media troll. The Trump'esque nicknames really sells it.

I literally posted a paper that thouroughly discussed both the Russian and the free worlds understanding of what was talked about as the Soviet Union died, and you pull the 'only look at one side' bullshit.


@hanimmal

So a liar's speech reported by a reputable source? What is that supposed to prove?

They covered Trump too, doesn't mean that what he said was reality. The reality is that he said it though.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Sweet media troll. The Trump'esque nicknames really sells it.

I literally posted a paper that thouroughly discussed both the Russian and the free worlds understanding of what was talked about as the Soviet Union died, and you pull the 'only look at one side' bullshit.



So a liar's speech reported by a reputable source? What is that supposed to prove?

They covered Trump too, doesn't mean that what he said was reality. The reality is that he said it though.
The reality is that America is the aggressor. You seem willfully blind to that fact.
 

CatHedral

Well-Known Member
Are you being purposefully thick, or are you pretending like the attack taking place in all of our homes and businesses is not real?


Shit isn't this version of Russia only what 50 years old?

Of course Putin gets everything he wants, that is what dictators do with their state sponsored propaganda.



View attachment 5052308


Why? Is the 'Grey Zone' credible?

Because just a quick look at it smells of some real 'left-troll' kind of shit.

lol, looking a step further into who it is that runs the show and his latest tweet is some bullshit about Assange, who helped smuggle stolen NSA files to help the Russian military in their attack on our citizens. Give me a break man.

View attachment 5052318
Extreme left bias, questionable source, propaganda/conspiracy content

 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
American is the aggressor.....umm so who invaded and annex the Crimea? America?
Holy shit shall we run the list of places America has invaded?

Russian people in both places, if you didn't know, and they were being treated poorly by the Ukrainian government and other residents.
 

mooray

Well-Known Member
Holy shit shall we run the list of places America has invaded?
Can you tie things together? Because this is about Russia, the Ukraine, and the US, so unless you're saying that the US has invaded Russia or the Ukraine, then the only other option left is to say that Russia is somehow white knighting by choosing to invade Ukraine as a means of protesting the list of places that the US has invaded, which frankly makes no sense.
 

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
Holy shit shall we run the list of places America has invaded?

Russian people in both places, if you didn't know, and they were being treated poorly by the Ukrainian government and other residents.
in this case is the Russian's who are the aggressor....literally invading Crimea and annexing it, on the guez that the people there wanted to be russian instead of Ukrainian, and then what is this invade in the North as well......hmmm sounds like war has already happened...so who's the aggressor now.

oh and
1024px-2014_Russo-ukrainian-conflict_map.svg.png

i see no american flags here.....and what about Georgia

well isn't that interesting....they've invaded there too....hmmm how strange
Map_of_Georgia_with_Abkhazia_and_South_Ossetia_highlighted.svg.png

just trying to keep the ol SSR alive huh
 

CatHedral

Well-Known Member
in this case is the Russian's who are the aggressor....literally invading Crimea and annexing it, on the guez that the people there wanted to be russian instead of Ukrainian, and then what is this invade in the North as well......hmmm sounds like war has already happened...so who's the aggressor now.

oh and
View attachment 5052605

i see no american flags here.....and what about Georgia

well isn't that interesting....they've invaded there too....hmmm how strange
View attachment 5052606

just trying to keep the ol SSR alive huh
Why they are gunning for the Pripet marshes, (ignorant shrug)
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Can you tie things together? Because this is about Russia, the Ukraine, and the US, so unless you're saying that the US has invaded Russia or the Ukraine, then the only other option left is to say that Russia is somehow white knighting by choosing to invade Ukraine as a means of protesting the list of places that the US has invaded, which frankly makes no sense.
That's a very weird interpretation of my remarks, which has exactly nothing to do with what I AM saying.

Russia has a much longer history than just the last 25 years and there are large numbers of ethnic Russians living in eastern Ukraine and in Crimea. When the Soviet Union broke up they received Ukrainian citizenship but they obviously did not stop being Russians. They were treated badly by the (corrupt as fuck) Ukrainian government and by other ethnic groups such as the ethnic Poles in the west of the country and by the self described Nazis in the east.

It is also true that the United States and NATO made promises to Russia in the early days of the (CIA engineered- that's yet more belligerent behavior) breakup that NATO would not expand to the east, promises which were repeatedly broken not for the sake of "security" but rather for the profits of Western defense contractors, corporations who to this very day still dictate much of America's warlike foreign policy. Good for business, you know.

Russia's economy is about the size of Italy's or California's, which is to say they're a regional power, not a threat for world domination by any stretch of the imagination. They have every justification to protect themselves from US, not to mention an increasingly aggressive NATO which itself has been behaving far more aggressively than its original mandate of European defense.

They don't want war, plain and simple. They want peace and trade, like pretty much every nation. The notion that they're out to get us is completely silly, paranoid as of typical of the rabid neoconservative right, which is again bankrolled and encouraged by America's weapons industry.

So why is all of this noise happening now? Simple; America wants Europe to buy our natural gas instead of Russia's through Nordstream II, so America is throwing a fit and raising a smokescreen to try and bully or con Europe into not using the pipeline that's already been built.

It always comes back to oil somehow...
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
That's a very weird interpretation of my remarks, which has exactly nothing to do with what I AM saying.

Russia has a much longer history than just the last 25 years and there are large numbers of ethnic Russians living in eastern Ukraine and in Crimea. When the Soviet Union broke up they received Ukrainian citizenship but they obviously did not stop being Russians. They were treated badly by the (corrupt as fuck) Ukrainian government and by other ethnic groups such as the ethnic Poles in the west of the country and by the self described Nazis in the east.

It is also true that the United States and NATO made promises to Russia in the early days of the (CIA engineered- that's yet more belligerent behavior) breakup that NATO would not expand to the east, promises which were repeatedly broken not for the sake of "security" but rather for the profits of Western defense contractors, corporations who to this very day still dictate much of America's warlike foreign policy. Good for business, you know.

Russia's economy is about the size of Italy's or California's, which is to say they're a regional power, not a threat for world domination by any stretch of the imagination. They have every justification to protect themselves from US, not to mention an increasingly aggressive NATO which itself has been behaving far more aggressively than its original mandate of European defense.

They don't want war, plain and simple. They want peace and trade, like pretty much every nation. The notion that they're out to get us is completely silly, paranoid as of typical of the rabid neoconservative right, which is again bankrolled and encouraged by America's weapons industry.

So why is all of this noise happening now? Simple; America wants Europe to buy our natural gas instead of Russia's through Nordstream II, so America is throwing a fit and raising a smokescreen to try and bully or con Europe into not using the pipeline that's already been built.

It always comes back to oil somehow...
You're pushing that Russian narrative pretty hard there.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
You're pushing that Russian narrative pretty hard there.
Oh boy, is it completely beyond you to even TRY to understand the motives of other countries, or are you just that happy to kneel and service the American weapons industry without a second thought?

It's called critical thinking, man. Stop blithely swallowing what Certainly Not News is feeding you.
 

mooray

Well-Known Member
That's a very weird interpretation of my remarks, which has exactly nothing to do with what I AM saying.

Russia has a much longer history than just the last 25 years and there are large numbers of ethnic Russians living in eastern Ukraine and in Crimea. When the Soviet Union broke up they received Ukrainian citizenship but they obviously did not stop being Russians. They were treated badly by the (corrupt as fuck) Ukrainian government and by other ethnic groups such as the ethnic Poles in the west of the country and by the self described Nazis in the east.

It is also true that the United States and NATO made promises to Russia in the early days of the (CIA engineered- that's yet more belligerent behavior) breakup that NATO would not expand to the east, promises which were repeatedly broken not for the sake of "security" but rather for the profits of Western defense contractors, corporations who to this very day still dictate much of America's warlike foreign policy. Good for business, you know.

Russia's economy is about the size of Italy's or California's, which is to say they're a regional power, not a threat for world domination by any stretch of the imagination. They have every justification to protect themselves from US, not to mention an increasingly aggressive NATO which itself has been behaving far more aggressively than its original mandate of European defense.

They don't want war, plain and simple. They want peace and trade, like pretty much every nation. The notion that they're out to get us is completely silly, paranoid as of typical of the rabid neoconservative right, which is again bankrolled and encouraged by America's weapons industry.

So why is all of this noise happening now? Simple; America wants Europe to buy our natural gas instead of Russia's through Nordstream II, so America is throwing a fit and raising a smokescreen to try and bully or con Europe into not using the pipeline that's already been built.

It always comes back to oil somehow...
Unless you're after an endless Israel/Palestine situation where everyone has done so much shit for so long that there is no longer a clear "good guy" in the story, then you just have to let all that old shit go and deal with the task at hand. If you're carrying bitterness because one side did whatever however many years ago, then sure, russia in invading the Ukraine because america made them do it.

There is always overlap of things that seems to be in conflict, in every situation, no matter what. If profits are a problem, then let's get rid of all vaccines because some big corps made money along the way. OR, you could allow some overlap because maybe the right thing and the wrong thing align sometimes.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Oh boy, is it completely beyond you to even TRY to understand the motives of other countries, or are you just that happy to kneel and service the American weapons industry without a second thought?

It's called critical thinking, man. Stop blithely swallowing what Certainly Not News is feeding you.
Screen Shot 2021-12-23 at 6.49.19 PM.png

It must be nice to live in a world that you can just say shit and have people pretend like it is true. It doesn't make it true, but ignorance is bliss.

I guess my posting this a page ago didn't happen, and your sweet propaganda narrative with your childish names of news networks that are not 'left-troll' enough for you is not complete horse shit.

But oh-well, here it is again. Feel free to continue to ignore that a actual study of the NATO expansion lie that Putin is pushing doesn't have any actual basis in reality.

 
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