Defoliation - removing fan leaves for higher yield

Defoliation; The removing or stripping of all leaves such as defoliants like Agent orange do= Very bad.
Selectively pruning, trimming and training = Very good.

Lumping them in as each other =Very silly.

I appreciate info bottom line!! Thank you!! Apparently people forget that they should always aprouch things with a grain of salt. Life is about learning things and you don't learn shit with a closed mind. Learn the data yourself and make an assumption then. If someone else wants to do that then good for them. And also even a blind squirrel gets a nut every now and then

I’m new to growing, but with what I know about plants and what I’ve learned this grow and seen with my plants, defoliating and trimming is good and sometimes necessary. I think of it like a big muscley guy. They can get winded quicker than a thinner less bulky guy cuz all that muscle needs to respire( w/e the word is. Breath, circulate blood and all, etc.). That takes energy. In a similar way the energy a plant uses to sustain big leaves could be spent and used elsewhere. The low level of stress cutting them off isn’t hurting them and I’ve learned it’s best not to cut off everything u can at once, do it in stages. Like right after a proper feeding so they readily have nutrients to use to heal faster.
u end up with more energy going to what u leave the plant with and it will all go to the fewer colas that are getting max light and all the nutrients and good airflow. That should make them get bigger as everything available for bud production goes to the sites u leave.
I dnt plan to strip themlike I’ve seen others do but my lower 1/3has been stripped already. It has made seeing what’s going on with them easier. Makes air flow better and even feeding them without getting nutes on the leaves. I can’t say it’s cause of trimming but they got much taller within 3 days after.
my babies are getting so big and I’m proud.

DeezBlunts said:

I’m new to growing, but with what I know about plants and what I’ve learned this grow and seen with my plants, defoliating and trimming is good and sometimes necessary. I think of it like a big muscley guy. They can get winded quicker than a thinner less bulky guy cuz all that muscle needs to respire( w/e the word is. Breath, circulate blood and all, etc.). That takes energy. In a similar way the energy a plant uses to sustain big leaves could be spent and used elsewhere. The low level of stress cutting them off isn’t hurting them and I’ve learned it’s best not to cut off everything u can at once, do it in stages. Like right after a proper feeding so they readily have nutrients to use to heal faster.
u end up with more energy going to what u leave the plant with and it will all go to the fewer colas that are getting max light and all the nutrients and good airflow. That should make them get bigger as everything available for bud production goes to the sites u leave.
I dnt plan to strip themlike I’ve seen others do but my lower 1/3has been stripped already. It has made seeing what’s going on with them easier. Makes air flow better and even feeding them without getting nutes on the leaves. I can’t say it’s cause of trimming but they got much taller within 3 days after.
my babies are getting so big and I’m proud.

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You have got the right idea, don't think it's good to remove too many leaves in one go, alway good to lollipop the lower canopy and thin the plants out, a few thick main shoots will allway give you better results than 100's of stretched shoots, 3 weeks in flower thin the canopy out, remove 20 -30% of the fan leaves (evenly over the canopy) see how they look in a week, you want a few fan leaves half way up on every main shoot and lose the rest but this is alway depends on the health of the plant and how it reacts, a very bushy plant will increase humidity and increase the chances of bugs staying around in the flower room and bud rot, light and good airflow in the canopy is one of the most important things in flower to keep your plants healthy.

Relaxed said:

Looks like you could learn a little more about plant growing. A master grower has the majority of leaves green as shit entire grow.

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Now I'm not sure about majority of leaves. True I have not worried about this until I looked it up. I found this tutorial that outlines a proven process. Got the scissors out and got enough for a big bowl of oil. Thanks for calling this out as my buds looked just like photos - punny. Defoliate during flowering: https://www.growweedeasy.com/nebulas-flowering-stage-defoliation-tutorial

smokin away said:

Now I'm not sure about majority of leaves. True I have not worried about this until I looked it up. I found this tutorial that outlines a proven process. Got the scissors out and got enough for a big bowl of oil. Thanks for calling this out as my buds looked just like photos - punny. Defoliate during flowering: https://www.growweedeasy.com/nebulas-flowering-stage-defoliation-tutorial

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The key is to only have leaves within the light bud window such a 2 feet area going down for a 400 watt hps or maybe 3 feet for 600 hps etc. leave all the leaves in the area even fan leaves. IF a bud is covered by a fan leaf move it under the bud w hand. For buds on the lower stem part covered by most direct light let those fan leaves stay so they help feed light. The 2 foot area nuted correctly should be green as shit till chop. Those with dead or dieing leafs miss some bud opportunity. Not a bad thing but not master worthy. like a kinda nut burn.

I remember reading this thread way back. Lots of good info on here and really funny shit too thats why Im bumping it, a little nostalgia. I miss some of the old crew.

Do people still believe that taking lots and lots of leaves off to expose the lower canopy to light increases yield?

The more leaves the plant has the more you will need to remove. I defoliated a shit ton because without it there's no way I would get enough airflow around the buds. I consistently harvest about a pound and a half from my 4 x 4 but the quality was sub par before l learnt how to properly manage the canopy.

Kola_Kreator said:

The more leaves the plant has the more you will need to remove. I defoliated a shit ton because without it there's no way I would get enough airflow around the buds. I consistently harvest about a pound and a half from my 4 x 4 but the quality was sub par before l learnt how to properly manage the canopy.

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I prune the lower section up about 14 inches for airflow before flip but thats about it. No major defoliation, some leaf tucking or if I have to remove a leaf cause its rubbing the bud thats really all. I strongly disagree that any defoliation increases yield. Your yield may be a qp in a 4x4 with defoliation but in that same space if you didnt defoliate you would get more yield. You're defolatiing though not for mroe yield but for better airflow right? If you didnt would you get bud rot mold and has that happened in that past hence why you defoliate now?

Cpappa27 said:

I prune the lower section up about 14 inches for airflow before flip but thats about it. No major defoliation, some leaf tucking or if I have to remove a leaf cause its rubbing the bud thats really all. I strongly disagree that any defoliation increases yield. Your yield may be a qp in a 4x4 with defoliation but in that same space if you didnt defoliate you would get more yield. You're defolatiing though not for mroe yield but for better airflow right? If you didnt would you get bud rot mold and has that happened in that past hence why you defoliate now?

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Problem is that the plants get too big for the space they have. The leaves are so thick I have basically no light penetration beyond the colas that stick out the top. The bud underneath doesn't get enough light to form and mature properly. In my situation I need to use heavy defol. I probably should veg for shorter than 6 weeks or put less than 4 plants in. Plants in veg at the moment have been mainlined so that will deff help control things better in flower.

Everyone's situation is varied. For some heavy defol works very well. For others it probably doesn't. It's also very strain dependant.

Kola_Kreator said:

Problem is that the plants get too big for the space they have. The leaves are so thick I have basically no light penetration beyond the colas that stick out the top. The bud underneath doesn't get enough light to form and mature properly. In my situation I need to use heavy defol. I probably should veg for shorter than 6 weeks or put less than 4 plants in. Plants in veg at the moment have been mainlined so that will deff help control things better in flower.

Everyone's situation is varied. For some heavy defol works very well. For others it probably doesn't. It's also very strain dependant.

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Many people dont do it but I do. Ill harvest top half and leave bottom half for another week or two to finish and Ive noticed a big increases in total jarable flower since doing that. Those bottom lower buds just need a few more days to a week and they mature real quick once you harvest the top and open the bottom section to lighting. I know many people dont like to do that because their drying room is the grow tent and they want everything to finish at the same time which is understandable.

I believe that defoliation has its purpose in specific instances to prevent mold, rot, and other issues with dense canopies; however I dont believe that defoliating increases final yield. The amount of leaves is directly related to the amount of yield. Every healthy leaf removed takes away from yield.

Kola_Kreator said:

Problem is that the plants get too big for the space they have. The leaves are so thick I have basically no light penetration beyond the colas that stick out the top. The bud underneath doesn't get enough light to form and mature properly. In my situation I need to use heavy defol. I probably should veg for shorter than 6 weeks or put less than 4 plants in. Plants in veg at the moment have been mainlined so that will deff help control things better in flower.

Everyone's situation is varied. For some heavy defol works very well. For others it probably doesn't. It's also very strain dependant.

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Same thing happened to me last grow so those are my words exact pretty much. That or I spread the cola out side ways. A bit of both.

Edit pics added, it all molded which is another reason to prune branches too to not over crowd but had it not mold, it was 2/3rds white/lime green sub par bud.

medidedicated said:

Same thing happened to me last grow so those are my words exact pretty much. That or I spread the cola out side ways. A bit of both.

Edit pics added, it all molded which is another reason to prune branches too to not over crowd but had it not mold, it was 2/3rds white/lime green sub par bud.

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Pruning or not pruning isn’t the reason those plants look like shit

dwc420letsgo said:

Pruning or not pruning isn’t the reason those plants look like shit

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Yea, it looks like crap. Starting over and basically doing what he said was all I meant. That was one of the lessons I learned. This pic was 30 days earlier in the grow and let it dry back in coco, did not prune branches and ran out of head space so it grew into the light and just let it go to crap.

It was salvage able at that time though don’t you think?

medidedicated said:

Yea, it looks like crap. Starting over and basically doing what he said was all I meant. That was one of the lessons I learned. This pic was 30 days earlier in the grow and let it dry back in coco, did not prune branches and ran out of head space so it grew into the light and just let it go to crap.

It was salvage able at that time though don’t you think?

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I mean, yes and no. You could probably run it to the end but the buds will not be the best smoke; you could make decent hash with it.

If in coco, try setting up a watering system on a timer… it makes the job so much easier since the plants will always have water/food, so your leaves will be healthy at the end of flowering.

Even if you had defoliated, but did everything else the same, your plants would be looking sad. If you want to control the stretch during the first weeks of flower, try using silica as foliar spray at higher concentrations (4mL/g if using powerSI)

dwc420letsgo said:

I mean, yes and no. You could probably run it to the end but the buds will not be the best smoke; you could make decent hash with it.

If in coco, try setting up a watering system on a timer… it makes the job so much easier since the plants will always have water/food, so your leaves will be healthy at the end of flowering.

Even if you had defoliated, but did everything else the same, your plants would be looking sad. If you want to control the stretch during the first weeks of flower, try using silica as foliar spray at higher concentrations (4mL/g if using powerSI)

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If we could go 30 days earlier from that photo which I don’t have, it would make more sense why I thought that comment was informal but too many other mistakes in same photo to use, my bad. I wouldn’t do it for yield, I would do it for why he said he does and to lessen risk of mold.

That grow was all lost so I am not timid to prune anything including bud just to make sure it isn’t molded. That comment was more for small tent grows, if it were larger, colas can just spread out better.

Glad I grew it without RIU so the loss has me journaling and more open to advice before it goes to crap next time. I bet this all would have been suggested and still probably would have same end result.

medidedicated said:

If we could go 30 days earlier from that photo which I don’t have, it would make more sense why I thought that comment was informal but too many other mistakes in same photo to use, my bad. I wouldn’t do it for yield, I would do it for why he said he does and to lessen risk of mold.

That grow was all lost so I am not timid to prune anything including bud just to make sure it isn’t molded. That comment was more for small tent grows, if it were larger, colas can just spread out better.

Glad I grew it without RIU so the loss has me journaling and more open to advice before it goes to crap next time. I bet this all would have been suggested and still probably would have same end result.

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Im also a tent grower. I take off a few fan leaves when flipping 12/12 for light penetration and so they don’t create condensation, so I’m with you on that. I was just trying to make a point that in your case, pruning/not pruning isn’t what cause your leaves to look like that, more likely high EC buildup due to the drybacks.

We all have to go thru a bad harvest at some point which is the best teacher if you are able to figure out what went wrong and how to fix it for the next run. Also as you can see in this thread, what works for some, doesn’t work for others so you have to do what works for your environment and the best way to figure it out is by trying. You made it pretty far, if you had set up a dripper or any other auto watering system, I’m sure you'd be looking at some really beautiful plants.

dwc420letsgo said:

Im also a tent grower. I take off a few fan leaves when flipping 12/12 for light penetration and so they don’t create condensation, so I’m with you on that. I was just trying to make a point that in your case, pruning/not pruning isn’t what cause your leaves to look like that, more likely high EC buildup due to the drybacks.

We all have to go thru a bad harvest at some point which is the best teacher if you are able to figure out what went wrong and how to fix it for the next run. Also as you can see in this thread, what works for some, doesn’t work for others so you have to do what works for your environment and the best way to figure it out is by trying. You made it pretty far, if you had set up a dripper or any other auto watering system, I’m sure you'd be looking at some really beautiful plants.

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I did automate but it was far too late and it got desert dry overnight so hand watering wasn’t enough. I also put a 3x3 light in a 2x2 thinking more yield, rookie mistake. I had 60 top sites, straight colas. At harvest, taking colas apart felt like tearing fiber glass apart. I was informed it was the dry back but that is what I meant by pruning to save it.

Would of worked great in a 3x3, haha, as if I needed to transplant tents or prune and take off the top of the 2x2 tent, mount light on ceiling to raise it. So it taco’ed and burnt which WAS pointed out and ignored. But yes, it just taught me alot in one run. To grow it right to begin with and size things out.

So I journal and immediately try to understand and apply the advice in the grow as it starts out with signs, I can even see where it first started to foxtail in that earlier pic.

Yes things work differently for everyone, not gonna lie, I get slightly jelous seeing people go against all this and still yield. Like, why me!! haha. 65% mold and rest was tainted with mold smell and not worth it. May of been my grow but that means more leeway for mishaps right?

medidedicated said:

I did automate but it was far too late and it got desert dry overnight so hand watering wasn’t enough. I also put a 3x3 light in a 2x2 thinking more yield, rookie mistake. I had 60 top sites, straight colas. At harvest, taking colas apart felt like tearing fiber glass apart. I was informed it was the dry back but that is what I meant by pruning to save it.

Would of worked great in a 3x3, haha, as if I needed to transplant tents or prune and take off the top of the 2x2 tent, mount light on ceiling to raise it. So it taco’ed and burnt which WAS pointed out and ignored. But yes, it just taught me alot in one run. To grow it right to begin with and size things out.

So I journal and immediately try to understand and apply the advice in the grow as it starts out with signs, I can even see where it first started to foxtail in that earlier pic.

Yes things work differently for everyone, not gonna lie, I get slightly jelous seeing people go against all this and still yield. Like, why me!! haha. 65% mold and rest was tainted with mold smell and not worth it. May of been my grow but that means more leeway for mishaps right?

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Definitely too much light if not running co2 will get ya. Does your light have a dimmer function? I use the photone app on my iphone and try to not exceed 900-1000 ppfd (on android there is a better solution which involves a cheap bluetooth par meter and some app). Any more and my plants will show their discontent at the colas. This run I tried my gavita at 100% and ended up burning the tops a little bit. My last run I ran it at 75% and was my best looking plants ever.