Does freewill exist?

Does freewill exist?


  • Total voters
    80

Nixs

Well-Known Member
After some deep thinking & a few :joint:s, I came to the conclusion that we have a limited "will" due to our limited capacities, only God the creator has a free will.
 

JamieThePainter

Well-Known Member
I like to think that we have free will, but I've taken far too many hallucinogens in my life to be happy to take that thought as my final answer. I often think that we are just as vital to the flow of the universe as the circling of a fly or the spinning of a planet. Perhaps in this huge, beautiful dimension of reality every piece of us is just another cog in the machine that is turning as it was supposed to.

In the depths of my half delusioned state when surfacing back from a break through trip I like to fancy that this is what deja vu is - as the Universe breathes in and out, we are destined (or doomed) to repeat the same cycle and our half remembrance of the last cycle that emerges sometimes, we call deja vu.
 

Dreaming1

Well-Known Member
I have dug into some family history. My family and my Wifes family have been following each other around for the last 200+ years. It is like a magnetic attraction more than some choice I have made. Everything fell into place. Serendipity. Lots of synchronicity. I echo their faces. I echo their same damn lives.
Money is good for easing stress, but it allows no more choice than if you are poor. The wheel is in a different phase of its rotation only.
I like to come from a science frame rather than a theosophical frame. But, I can only say that the limits of this universe are very precise. If several math type things that define the universe were off by very minuscule amounts, the whole thing would fall apart. Not to mention that it would be easier for nothing to remain nothing than to become something, much less everything. I dont want to believe in a god. But if that is the Truth, then what I think is meaningless. But, also vice versa.
So...me being either my body making my mind, or my mind experiencing a physical body for shits and grins? If my body creates my mind, then these choices are ephemeral if not illusions. If I am mind, preceding life,and lasting beyond death, then I am some impotent god.
I figure if there is a god, then it is the basis of consciousness. We a shards of that. A bit of the fractal that contains the entire info. If I don't actually exist, if I am a character in a movie being played by god, then my script is written and no free will. If I am making it up as I go along in the movie, then free will exists, but with no meaning...just empty choices echoing across space for the sake of screaming into the void.
Join my cult. $end a $elf adre$$ed $tamped envelope to Dreaming One, OK. Just pop it in the mail. They know me like Santa Claus. If you have no free will, send $5. If you have free will, send $100.
 

Dreaming1

Well-Known Member
Idk if anyone else said this, but if you have free will, just make your body produce more cannibinoids so you don't have to spend resources on pot or growing it. We already make them, so this should be easy.
Hell, free yourself from having to cannibalize some other life and make all of the proteins you need to live for yourself you lazy bastards.
Free will yourself to live forever in a perfect physical form that never deteriorates.
You will have to forgive me for not holding my breath waiting on you. I don't have control over my breathe. If held long enough, my brain will shut my will down, and will begin pumping my lungs for me. I Cant even control my own breathing. Much less choose some thing to happen. I only react.
If you free will stuff, I guess we can blame you for the current state of affairs too. You have willed it. Child molesting, starvation, war, pollution, inequality, fear, pain... Great choices guys. Gods.
 
Hell ya. Most people probably don't know what you're talking about. But I went to Epitaph's Summer Nationals there one year. Still got the shirt. Lot's of real punk rockers. That was the Hollywood palladium though. I know there are a bunch. But for some reason I thought you were talking about the one in Hollywood.
Hollywood for sure. I just remember growing up hearing "live at the Palladium" a lot. Never went unfortunately.
 

Dreaming1

Well-Known Member
Now we get to decide if we have free will? Awesome. Talking in circles. I decided to have/not have free will. What does that even mean? Word salad.
We are either in control or we are not. It seems we are not. Choice choosers? Yes. Deciding on the choices available to us? No.
So what is free will if you don't set up the initial conditions? Reaction.
We are in this life like bacteria in its guts. We are not riding this life like some cowboy. It is riding us if anything.
 

Dreaming1

Well-Known Member
Eh? Why wouldn't my freewill allow me to save someone from dying? I'm really not seeing your point here.
Most of the time we are helpless with dying. If we were equipped with knowledge and tools to save someone, then would we? Or would we see if they had enough money to pay for life saving treatments?
Most of those equipped to save a life have an ethical if not moral drive to help. Could they choose to not help? Or will they be obligated to act?
Some feel obligated to act even though they are helpless. That is a real bummer.
 

JamieThePainter

Well-Known Member
Most of the time we are helpless with dying. If we were equipped with knowledge and tools to save someone, then would we? Or would we see if they had enough money to pay for life saving treatments?
Most of those equipped to save a life have an ethical if not moral drive to help. Could they choose to not help? Or will they be obligated to act?
Some feel obligated to act even though they are helpless. That is a real bummer.
I feel I must inform you that I work for the NHS in the UK and I'm also ex-Forces, so I don't believe that question holds much weight with myself.

In context with the thread though I still believe it shows that free will exists. Those who would feel obligated to help I believe would feel that obligation through their own volition. Sure, someone may help (or choose not to help) via enforced obligation, but I don't think that would negate the notion of free will for that person.
 
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Dreaming1

Well-Known Member
Yeah, my americaness showed there. The shared costs make more sense than what we do, profit for insurance companies. But, dying is still dying whether you do it alone or in a hospital bed surrounded by attendees. No one gets out of here alive.
I still disagree with the free will part. I think the "obligation" could be an internal drive aside from choosing between choices. An internal drive that is not of personal volition. A program running.
I want to have free choice. I dont believe that we do. Not that I am not free to make choices, but that the choices are only between things and not what things I decide to have as choices. It's why I think we choose the choices we do. Not because of free will, but because of probability at least, and determinism at most.
It's one of those things that we can talk about, but can't measure. And without an absolute answer, we are trapped in a loop. Those that want to believe do and those that want to not believe dont. One of these has to be right. But no one will know unless there is some kind of reveal ending.
The whole of my "argument" is we can choose A,B,or C. Free will is being able to choose from any letter, numbers, shapes, animals, automotive parts, or colors. Not limited to simple choices, but free to set up whatever you will.
 

Dreaming1

Well-Known Member
I think it's time for an update.........a brief, clear definition of " free will " . I sense a multitude of different interpretations .
Please, put it out there.
I say free will is more than choosing between available choices. I say that is reacting.
Free will is being in control of which choices are available.
No one has that for themselves. Outside forces can always derail plans. And some options are not available at the time of choosing. We are bound by life and death. No choice to be here, and no choice to stay beyond our natural time.

I would like to have other words to say, but I have looked over my script, and all I have to say is I feel this way or that way. I just hope I am delivering my lines at the right moments.
 
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