Fan Leafs. Blockers of Light Or Energy Producers???

Damn, with every new crop of newbies this subject comes up again. Learn botany people, and learn how to do a search, starting on the keyword of "lollipopping".

420forme said:

I have grown with leaving everything on there, just makes for alot of undeveloped buds, and alot more trimming. I had no change in yield.

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Not buying it, or IOW, that's botanically impossible as healthy green leaves drive bud production. If I had to guess, you screw up your leaves like most using low N "bloom" foods, they yellow, become necrotic and useless anyway. Yes or no?

i have onserved it is strain dependant and grow medium dependant:

indica's produce fatter and many more leaves to bud ratio.

growing hydroponically and with intense light (K's) leaves are produced in abundance, enought (as was said earlier) to really fuck with air flow and create dead pockets within the lants mass. also, plants will only grow to the carrying capacity of the space they have, which means at some point you will have the plant fighting between leaf growth and flower growth. although some will claim botany and nature deffence, we don't grow like nature. co2 isnt 1500 ppm's in nature, water is always ph rock stable at 6.1 in nature, nutrients are always overly abundent in natue.. when we over feed and over drive our plants we have to adjust to it... I good exampe of growing tech being different from nature is the 5-1 light schedule, that was developed by florists..


but do a lot of reading (and not pot books, just standard botnay shit) before you take anyones advise on here, people are typically dinks..

I believe in removing some leaves to let light penetrate better & to give more space, better air flow for indoor. Outdoors is a different thing, the sun isn't stationary & all the wind & space it can handle. I'd like to see a side by side comparison surely someone has this documented.

the Bigger the Fan leaves , , the Bigger the Buds

There is no reason to remove the leaves really since it is the leaves that "catch" the rays of light and then turn them into usable energy for the plant...so really a leaf can't block light...I mean it might block light from getting to other leaves, but if you want the middle of the plant to grow better then make sure it's leaves are on top...leaves feed the node they come off of...so move the leaves, not the buds...buds don't catch light the way the leaves do...so the best thing for bigger buds is making sure any leaves near buds get lots and lots of light...as the leaves directly supply what they are closest to.

1st, Uncle Ben - No
2nd, If bud sites don't need light, then why when my plant is ready for harvest, ill find a big fan leaf had
been covering a bud site, and that site is very light green, fluffy, and under developed? Everything else is dank and tight that had been receiving light.
3rd, I've done side by side tests of trimming vs not. I saw, as stated above alot of undeveloped sites on the untrimmed. No real change in yield, if anything, trimmed was better.
4th, yes i'm talking indoors.
Now I don't strip the plant naked, but if I don't like it, I remove it.
Indoors you have to make changes and adapt, I've never heard any complaints about my product.

420forme said:

1st, Uncle Ben - No
2nd, If bud sites don't need light, then why when my plant is ready for harvest, ill find a big fan leaf had
been covering a bud site, and that site is very light green, fluffy, and under developed? Everything else is dank and tight that had been receiving light.
3rd, I've done side by side tests of trimming vs not. I saw, as stated above alot of undeveloped sites on the untrimmed. No real change in yield, if anything, trimmed was better.
4th, yes i'm talking indoors.
Now I don't strip the plant naked, but if I don't like it, I remove it.
Indoors you have to make changes and adapt, I've never heard any complaints about my product.

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Strip 'em all off.

if plant dont need them, it will kill it him/herself

Like most things, there is not a simple answer like "keep all your leaves". Yes, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that leaves are the surfaces where light photons are absorbed, and carbohydrates are produced. Leaves are also very important for cooling the plant and also maintaining the flow of nutrient and water through the plant.

There is a balance between the energy needs of the plant (due to its size) and it's ability to produce energy to support growth. However! The very precense of leaves increases the need for more water uptake, nutrient assimilation, and carb production. A plant is subject to all kinds of natural hazards that cause defoliation.. Wind, disease, insects, animals, etc. the balance in the plant is not so delicate that loosing some leaves is going to cause the collapse of the plant. This is why you can lollipop a plant and low and behold...your yield will increase. Bud sites need light, as do lower leaves. Light penetration is severely limited indoors. Lower leaves don't receive a whole lot of energy if they are shaded.

Bottom line, defoliating can increase yield if used properly. I would never hack more than 20% of the canopy at one time but defoliating can increase side branches, bud maturation and increase bud sites. Simply saying "hack them off" or "leave them they are the energy sites" is a gross over simplification.

I typically defoliate a week or so before the flip, and after week 5. Before the flip, removing leaves will thicken the canopy. I take off any huge leaves that are blocking the understory and I pluck all yellow as soon as they turn. This increase air circulation and wards off mildew. Towards the end of flower, the plants nutrient needs are greatly reduced so I take off leaves that are blocking bud sites to aid in maturation and color development

The best advice is try it in moderation and observe the results.

Well said Sir

uhm... okay. i never cut them off before, but i never chopped off the bottoms before. and th ehuge fan leafs are the ones im mostly speaking of. as i have mentioned 1000655349238402984203984098484 times. thanks!!

its obviously a compromise, indoors with limited space and light your gunna need to take some leaves off..

Every once in a while the opportunity cost of cutting of leaf will be greater than the extra "energy" it produces while staying on the plant

sometimes there is just too much leaf in the room...

I only smoke the leaves, I throw the buds away.

^with a stupid answer like that, i bet you get high off lawn clippings.

@MADnuggi - that is my thoughts on it. im only chopping a few small leafs here and there. i have a little bit of an overcrowding issue going on and i want light to penetrate further through the plants canopy. i can not LST them at this point and even if i could i would still opt to chop a few leafs off. i need to rearrange every plant in the tent and make sure there is even light distribution so with out chopping a few off here or there is see no other way for light to penetrate. the older lower fan leafs are usually the first to go. then and little leafs that may interfere. im looking for maximum flower development and not a shit load of leafs to trim off in the end. i do know that leafs serve a vital roll in plant and bud production, however so does light and fresh ventilation. and i do not think that more leafs will make up if i am lacking in either of those other departments. so fuck it! im chopping what i feel is needed. like i have said a million and ten times already, this is not my first grow and i do know that a few leafs aint going to affect my overall yield. i do think that if i leave too many leafs on it WILL effect my overall yield. so, basically i agree with ya. its funny how i can ask a question and 20 ppl will say "No" but with no scientific backing for their answers. and the people the say "Yes" always explain why. i just can not grasp that ideology!!

legallyflying said:

I only smoke the leaves, I throw the buds away.

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I wanna be your friend..... also, I agree with your method of leaf removal. It's common sense not rocket science.

what I normally do is during the veg state up till the time the fan leaves are starting to become smaller (usually about 2-4 weeks into flowering) I will remove a few bigger fans (the ones about the size of my hand) or tuck them under. Last year I chose to super crop them and took more fan leaves out of the way the yeild was great but the taste was so-so this yer will be doing the same but no super croping

I most certainly trim many leaves on the top of my scrog canopy, i do my first good leaf trim when i do my topping and fimming before i flip, and again when neaded at around week 4-5 flowering to help the smaller buds get more colour and fatten up some more. i was slightly lazy my last grow trimming popcorn and small spindly growth under the canopy, but i ended up with a couple of oz of popcorn from 1 plant (out of 20 ounces)
If i didnt trim the leaves during flowering, alot of fan leaves would be in the way, and my light penetration would greatly be diminished. my canopy fills my 1.2 metre tent area with 1 plant, and it gets really really bushy if i dont maintain. without it circulation drops dramatically, and transpiration suffers and humidity also rises...I myself have only 3 grown under my belt but i have noticed a massive improvement with trim cleaning, and yield does increase, if done correctly, and not furiously taking more than 15% of leaves!!! those small buds getting too much shade will grow spindly and light green in colour, i have actually found buds, and positioned them to get more light, and within 4-5 days, I will see a noticeable colour change, and perhaps density will go up in that short time.
hope that helps!

check out my last grow towards the end, to have a squiz at my 20 ounce monster plant

FlowaMasta

fuck it!! im going back through my entire garden and thinning it out. i took about 20-40% of the plants growth off as most of it is bullshit because i FIM my plants about 2-4 times each head. i have one plant i shit you not that could easily be a half pound. id be willing to bet based off my last grows im averaging about 100-120g per plant of this harvest. my last grow was the first grow i thinned out the bottom growth and i got easily 114g off it. the grow before that i had a bunch of 100g plants and a bunch of 56g plants. if i walk with 3-4oz per plant on this current cycle i will walk with roughly 1900g. not too shabby for my first 4x8, 2x600w grow. and first time with these TGA strains. after the crap i dealt with last night im hitting up Home Depot here in a few minutes to go get tomato cages. i think i may have overcrowded my tent. i probably should chuck 1 plant outside, but i think its a little bit too late for that. even the plants i didn't top are big huge bushes!!! im quite frankly digging it, but i know i have a lot of work cut out for me within the next few weeks. i just think im starting to get a little scared. shits a jungle in there!

With a canopy like that you will notice a big improvement on your lower buds. Beautiful grow oHsiN666!!!!!