First organic grow, is this nute burn?

myke said:

That chart has been posted several times.I think this is the first time ive seen the description of what the colors meant .lol it almost makes sense now.

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I know huh man. Here's another one in other terminology.

The other chart often posted with the Muelders then speaks to the ratios amongst the inputs. Don't have it handy but for some of these are theoretical 'target ratios' to aim for when balancing things. That's the next trick after understanding the antagonist/stimulation relationships between them.

VILEPLUME said:

I think I gave them a little too much top dressing. I was reading that its harder to burn plants with organics but I think its still burn. Or maybe I'm wrong? Any guesses?

View attachment 4767721View attachment 4767722

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That’s light burn. If it was nutrient burn it would only be the tips.What I do to prevent that is get a Spray water bottle and at least once or twice every other day spray the leaves with a misting to compensate rain. Are you using CFL’s or LED

swedsteven said:

Some strain ask for more nitrogen in flower just like mine i thought that the worm casting will be enought nîtrogen but the bloom and ewc was not enought .

50/50 ratio when flow is my solution to keep them green
444 and 284 +ewc not needed to succes
I topdress it at 3 week in 12/12+

And it might be magnesium lock up ...i use some unsulfured grandma molasses to help that and feed the bacteria ! Tea spoon a gallon and i stop at 6 week it taste harsh if i dont stop it .
View attachment 4768105
To much light 1200 ppfd ...push it to the limit
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I watched a video the other day with this plant scientist. And I actually learned that the amount of par with cannabis is endless which means it goes as much as you want to push the limit. I just thought I would share that with you by some of the miracle Gro all purpose plant food and add a small batch of that with some Foxfarm big grow and tiger bloom and you’ll be ready to roll. Happy farming I’ve attached a photo of my week one of flower so you could see how good it actually works.

Holeleeshet said:

I watched a video the other day with this plant scientist. And I actually learned that the amount of par with cannabis is endless which means it goes as much as you want to push the limit. I just thought I would share that with you by some of the miracle Gro all purpose plant food and add a small batch of that with some Foxfarm big grow and tiger bloom and you’ll be ready to roll. Happy farming I’ve attached a photo of my week one of flower so you could see how good it actually works.

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As much as I have a grotto actually learned that as long as every other feeder iAs much as I have a grotto actually learned that as long as every other feed It’s alternated with a gallon of water every five or six days and plants just grow as fast as you want them.

Holeleeshet said:

I watched a video the other day with this plant scientist. And I actually learned that the amount of par with cannabis is endless which means it goes as much as you want to push the limit. I just thought I would share that with you by some of the miracle Gro all purpose plant food and add a small batch of that with some Foxfarm big grow and tiger bloom and you’ll be ready to roll. Happy farming I’ve attached a photo of my week one of flower so you could see how good it actually works.

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Where did you come from?

Wait, let me guess, YouTube?

VILEPLUME said:

Also at @PadawanWarrior

The plants are definitely doing better with a little bit of bath salts on each watering. I baked my new soil and I did once again, before I knew, put extra gypsum and OSF in the mix. I obviously don't want to waste it, so I'll keep adding bath salts to my watering.

If I didn't want to add bath salts but wanted to add extra Mag, would adding extra green sand be a good alternative? I noticed it has Mag and no Cal. Thoughts?

Greensand | Gaia Green Organics

GAIA GREEN Greensand is mined from ancient, nutrient-rich deposits of oceanic sediment. Over time, this sediment developed into glauconite, which is highly effective as a slow-release fertilizer used to improve the mineral content of soil and other growing media. Greensand is gentle on plants...

www.gaiagreen.com

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Greensand takes years to decompose, so it wouldn't do you good for a while unfortunately.

I've never seen, nor heard of anyone overdoing it with Epsom Salts growing cannabis. Other plants may be a different story, but I've never experienced a single issue foliar feeding with them @ 1/4-1/3 tsp per gallon at the frequency that I do.

Only other viable option for Mg that I know of is Langbeinite, but it has so much K (0-0-22) that you not only need to be extra cautious when applying it but you also need to be sure you don't have too much K in your soil.

Not worth using Langbeinite to cure Mg issues if it causes K toxicity. I've never had to use the stuff, personally.

VILEPLUME said:

Thanks.

This article says ES is safe and is hard to over feed with. https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/garden-how-to/soil-fertilizers/epsom-salt-gardening.htm

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Some articles I've read have pointed out that it could be problematic, but none of the articles in question were about cannabis. I've used them in foliar feeds for years now and haven't had a single issue.

kratos015 said:

Greensand takes years to decompose, so it wouldn't do you good for a while unfortunately.

I've never seen, nor heard of anyone overdoing it with Epsom Salts growing cannabis. Other plants may be a different story, but I've never experienced a single issue foliar feeding with them @ 1/4-1/3 tsp per gallon at the frequency that I do.

Only other viable option for Mg that I know of is Langbeinite, but it has so much K (0-0-22) that you not only need to be extra cautious when applying it but you also need to be sure you don't have too much K in your soil.

Not worth using Langbeinite to cure Mg issues if it causes K toxicity. I've never had to use the stuff, personally.




Some articles I've read have pointed out that it could be problematic, but none of the articles in question were about cannabis. I've used them in foliar feeds for years now and haven't had a single issue.

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But what about container pots that don't have any runoff?

I always love your advice Kratos.

kratos015 said:

Greensand takes years to decompose, so it wouldn't do you good for a while unfortunately.

I've never seen, nor heard of anyone overdoing it with Epsom Salts growing cannabis. Other plants may be a different story, but I've never experienced a single issue foliar feeding with them @ 1/4-1/3 tsp per gallon at the frequency that I do.

Only other viable option for Mg that I know of is Langbeinite, but it has so much K (0-0-22) that you not only need to be extra cautious when applying it but you also need to be sure you don't have too much K in your soil.

Not worth using Langbeinite to cure Mg issues if it causes K toxicity. I've never had to use the stuff, personally.




Some articles I've read have pointed out that it could be problematic, but none of the articles in question were about cannabis. I've used them in foliar feeds for years now and haven't had a single issue.

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Thanks for your reply.

What about glacial rock dust, it says its readily available for plants to up take. Any downsides to adding this to my high Cal baked soil?


Also when you say foliar spray, do you mean spraying directly on the leaves? I'm trying not to spray the leaves as I dont want any mold problems.

VILEPLUME said:

Thanks for your reply.

What about glacial rock dust, it says its readily available for plants to up take. Any downsides to adding this to my high Cal baked soil?

Glacial Rock Dust | Gaia Green Organics

GAIA GREEN Glacial Rock Dust is sourced from mineral deposits left by moving glaciers during the last ice age. This natural fertilizer contains essential plant nutrients that support strong plant growth, and can be used on all plants in home gardens, landscapes, lawn, and turf. GAIA GREEN...

www.gaiagreen.com

Also when you say foliar spray, do you mean spraying directly on the leaves? I'm trying not to spray the leaves as I dont want any mold problems.

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Can't really comment much on GRD as I don't use it much. The Iron content would be my main concern, as I wouldn't want to overdo the Iron in my soil.

The upside to the Epsom Salts is it is foliar fed, as opposed to top dressed. Foliar feeding Epsom Salts will in no way affect your soil, as they are being absorbed through the leaves and never come into contact with the living soil.

GRD can't be foliar fed either as I'm sure you're aware, as it is a rock dust and not a water soluble salt.



And yes sir, I spray the entire plant. Top and bottoms of every leaf. While mold is definitely something we as growers should be concerned about, fact is that you'll never see it if your room/environment is up to snuff. I've been growing for over a decade now, both in and outdoors. The only time I've ever seen mold is on outdoor buds that POS caterpillars have eaten and shit in.

I have never seen mold indoors. One should have enough fans/air flow to prevent spores from even landing in the first place. Mold is just a spore. In order for an infestation to happen you'd have to actually have spores, then they would have to land on the plants, then they would have to spread, and all only if the proper temp (humidity, more specifically) conditions are met.

If you are sterilizing your room after each cycle, have sufficient airflow, and keep humidity in check you will never see mold. So foliar feed if and when you feel comfortable with it friend. A little spray isn't going to cause mold in your garden, trust me

I foliar 2-3 times a week with epsom salts, and add ProTekt once a week to the spray. Once a month I add kelp and TM7 to the spray. I also foliar with habanero spray/spinosad in the event of pests. You can even foliar with liquid fish emulsion/hydrolysate should you see the need. I personally haven't, but its certainly possible.

kratos015 said:

Can't really comment much on GRD as I don't use it much. The Iron content would be my main concern, as I wouldn't want to overdo the Iron in my soil.

The upside to the Epsom Salts is it is foliar fed, as opposed to top dressed. Foliar feeding Epsom Salts will in no way affect your soil, as they are being absorbed through the leaves and never come into contact with the living soil.

GRD can't be foliar fed either as I'm sure you're aware, as it is a rock dust and not a water soluble salt.



And yes sir, I spray the entire plant. Top and bottoms of every leaf. While mold is definitely something we as growers should be concerned about, fact is that you'll never see it if your room/environment is up to snuff. I've been growing for over a decade now, both in and outdoors. The only time I've ever seen mold is on outdoor buds that POS caterpillars have eaten and shit in.

I have never seen mold indoors. One should have enough fans/air flow to prevent spores from even landing in the first place. Mold is just a spore. In order for an infestation to happen you'd have to actually have spores, then they would have to land on the plants, then they would have to spread, and all only if the proper temp (humidity, more specifically) conditions are met.

If you are sterilizing your room after each cycle, have sufficient airflow, and keep humidity in check you will never see mold. So foliar feed if and when you feel comfortable with it friend. A little spray isn't going to cause mold in your garden, trust me

I foliar 2-3 times a week with epsom salts, and add ProTekt once a week to the spray. Once a month I add kelp and TM7 to the spray. I also foliar with habanero spray/spinosad in the event of pests. You can even foliar with liquid fish emulsion/hydrolysate should you see the need. I personally haven't, but its certainly possible.

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Thank you for the detailed reply.

I struggled with PM for a long time and this is the first grow I've had none. I've been extremely analytical about it and I clean the grow room every week. Temps and RH are in the proper spectrums.

If I feed the epsom salts directly to the soil in a water mixture, will that have consequences later?

VILEPLUME said:

Thank you for the detailed reply.

I struggled with PM for a long time and this is the first grow I've had none. I've been extremely analytical about it and I clean the grow room every week. Temps and RH are in the proper spectrums.

If I feed the epsom salts directly to the soil in a water mixture, will that have consequences later?

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Always happy to be of service.

If you live in a humid environment like Florida or something with high ambient humidity, and you're intaking outdoor air into your grow room then I can certainly see mold issues happening. However, with proper cleanliness measures and grow room control mold is easily mitigated.

The issue with feeding salts to your soil is just that, there will be an eventual salt build up. I can't comment much due to never doing an actual soil drench with Epsom Salts, but salt build up is typically never a good thing.

I would not recommend that someone do a soil drench with Epsom Salts on a weekly basis.



Think of your soil mix as a pantry.

By foliar feeding, you're essentially just going out to eat for dinner. You still have food in your pantry, should you happen to still be hungry. But, you already went out to eat and are most likely well fed and satisfied. If not, plenty of food in the pantry to eat. In this example, the foliar feed only hits the leaves/plants and never the soil (pantry). So, the soil (pantry) isn't out of balance.

By doing a soil drench with Epsom Salts though, you aren't going out to eat. Its akin to buying too much food at the grocery store. Your now once organized pantry is completely cluttered, and possibly even overflowing. Now, you're forced to throw away and/or consume whatever is in your pantry until it isn't overflowing anymore.

Foliar feeding doesn't add anything to the soil itself. Should you have plants/strains/phenos that are heavy feeders, this is where foliar feeding shines. It allows your plant to decide if it wants to eat more or not after the foliar feeding. By doing a soil drench though, you aren't giving the plant much of a choice. If the plant doesn't absorb it, it will remain in your soil in the form of salts.

Forgive my inability to explain it properly, but Epsom Salts will be different in a soil drench as opposed to foliar feed.

Lets say for sake of example, your Mg+S levels in the soil are 100% perfect. So, no need for Epsom Salts right? Well, if you foliar with Epsom Salts (Mg+S) then the plants will receive both those nutrients but still have them in the soil (pantry). However, by doing a soil drench with it, whatever the plant cannot absorb gets left in the soil in the form of salts.

Salts (the white spots you've likely noticed foliar feeding) are of little to no consequence on the leaves of your plants. In your soil, however? They can potentially cause issues.

This is why I foliar with Epsom Salts exclusively and never soil drench with them. By foliar feeding with Epsom Salts, I'm giving the plants the choice to decide if they're still hungry or not.

kratos015 said:

Always happy to be of service.

If you live in a humid environment like Florida or something with high ambient humidity, and you're intaking outdoor air into your grow room then I can certainly see mold issues happening. However, with proper cleanliness measures and grow room control mold is easily mitigated.

The issue with feeding salts to your soil is just that, there will be an eventual salt build up. I can't comment much due to never doing an actual soil drench with Epsom Salts, but salt build up is typically never a good thing.

I would not recommend that someone do a soil drench with Epsom Salts on a weekly basis.



Think of your soil mix as a pantry.

By foliar feeding, you're essentially just going out to eat for dinner. You still have food in your pantry, should you happen to still be hungry. But, you already went out to eat and are most likely well fed and satisfied. If not, plenty of food in the pantry to eat. In this example, the foliar feed only hits the leaves/plants and never the soil (pantry). So, the soil (pantry) isn't out of balance.

By doing a soil drench with Epsom Salts though, you aren't going out to eat. Its akin to buying too much food at the grocery store. Your now once organized pantry is completely cluttered, and possibly even overflowing. Now, you're forced to throw away and/or consume whatever is in your pantry until it isn't overflowing anymore.

Foliar feeding doesn't add anything to the soil itself. Should you have plants/strains/phenos that are heavy feeders, this is where foliar feeding shines. It allows your plant to decide if it wants to eat more or not after the foliar feeding. By doing a soil drench though, you aren't giving the plant much of a choice. If the plant doesn't absorb it, it will remain in your soil in the form of salts.

Forgive my inability to explain it properly, but Epsom Salts will be different in a soil drench as opposed to foliar feed.

Lets say for sake of example, your Mg+S levels in the soil are 100% perfect. So, no need for Epsom Salts right? Well, if you foliar with Epsom Salts (Mg+S) then the plants will receive both those nutrients but still have them in the soil (pantry). However, by doing a soil drench with it, whatever the plant cannot absorb gets left in the soil in the form of salts.

Salts (the white spots you've likely noticed foliar feeding) are of little to no consequence on the leaves of your plants. In your soil, however? They can potentially cause issues.

This is why I foliar with Epsom Salts exclusively and never soil drench with them. By foliar feeding with Epsom Salts, I'm giving the plants the choice to decide if they're still hungry or not.

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Thanks again for your detailed reply.

How does spraying the plants work in bloom? I'm worried I will get the mixture on the bud from time to time. And because of life, I only have an hour a day to work on my plants. I have a decent system now with the dry amendments, I just messed up making all of my soil mixes with too much Cal.

I also hate the dust that is created when top dressing with Gaia Green 444 and 284. So I created a potent super soil that is half gaia green and half soil. It makes it easy to top dress as the dust is now almost completely gone. But that too i added extra gypsum and OSF. I do get this methane smell in the baking containers, like when you enter a barn and smell hay with decomposing organic matter.

I was hoping adding GS or GRD to the soil mixes would be an easy fix, but I guess not...

Thanks for replying as I know I'm milking you for answers. I'm just super critical of my weed grows.

VILEPLUME said:

Thanks again for your detailed reply.

How does spraying the plants work in bloom? I'm worried I will get the mixture on the bud from time to time. And because of life, I only have an hour a day to work on my plants. I have a decent system now with the dry amendments, I just messed up making all of my soil mixes with too much Cal.

I also hate the dust that is created when top dressing with Gaia Green 444 and 284. So I created a potent super soil that is half gaia green and half soil. It makes it easy to top dress as the dust is now almost completely gone. But that too i added extra gypsum and OSF. I do get this methane smell in the baking containers, like when you enter a barn and smell hay with decomposing organic matter.

I was hoping adding GS or GRD to the soil mixes would be an easy fix, but I guess not...

Thanks for replying as I know I'm milking you for answers. I'm just super critical of my weed grows.

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Keep milking him.

VILEPLUME said:

Thanks again for your detailed reply.

How does spraying the plants work in bloom? I'm worried I will get the mixture on the bud from time to time. And because of life, I only have an hour a day to work on my plants. I have a decent system now with the dry amendments, I just messed up making all of my soil mixes with too much Cal.

I also hate the dust that is created when top dressing with Gaia Green 444 and 284. So I created a potent super soil that is half gaia green and half soil. It makes it easy to top dress as the dust is now almost completely gone. But that too i added extra gypsum and OSF. I do get this methane smell in the baking containers, like when you enter a barn and smell hay with decomposing organic matter.

I was hoping adding GS or GRD to the soil mixes would be an easy fix, but I guess not...

Thanks for replying as I know I'm milking you for answers. I'm just super critical of my weed grows.

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Anytime.

Spraying the buds is unavoidable, and has never caused me issues personally.

Unfortunately, that isn't methane that you're smelling but ammonium gas. Your soil has gone anaerobic and what you're smelling is anaerobic bacteria munching on the nitrogen in your soil, and releasing it into the air as ammonium gas.

Dump the soil on a tarp, or even just on the ground and mix the shit out of it with a shovel/rake/whatever. Easily fixed, but you'll have to turn the soil 1-2 times a day until the smell goes away. Soil turning anaerobic is quite common when leaving soil in containers. Much like in pots, the water pools to the bottom and creates stagnant conditions that breed anaerobic bacteria. Just dump your soil and keep turning it daily until the smell goes away, getting oxygen back into the soil will allow aerobic bacteria to colonize the soil again while simultaneously killing off the anaerobic bacteria.

In the future, if dust in your top dress is problematic you can just mix your top dress with your compost or even a little bit of peat moss. I always cover my top dress with compost, so I never really see issues with dust personally.

Each time i top dress it smell like that for 10 days ... I thought that was the smel off money thats wath my step dad tell me haha

Foliar feeding my buds is a nono i hate how they look after i only did that once when i was fighthing
Powder mildew .

Dehu went out and my outake fan was off .

One of the early Gorilla Glue phenos. Grew the same clone in synthetics and it did not produce that white cap. Left some yellow to show you guys on the bud leaves from the Mag deficiency.

Overall it turned out ok, still 50/50 on if I'm going to switch. I think the next run will be better, but if it's not I'm definitely going to switch back.

My main mess ups were giving them extra gypsum and OSF. I also waited 3 weeks after I switched to bloom to feed them again as I thought I over fed them. Then I fed them every week but thought I over fed again and then did no nutes for the last 3 weeks. Next grow is 2 weeks feed until week 7, I always harvest at 9 weeks and buy 8-9 week strains. I could chop at 8 but that extra week always adds like 20% more weight.

Good news is that the wedding cake strain turned out better than the synthetic grow. I'll post pictures next week when I harvest.

VILEPLUME said:

Grew the same clone in synthetics and it did not produce that white cap.

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Light bleaching?

I had the same fear of mold/mildew that we all do. The only thing that helped me get over this fear was being forced into a situation of using the habanero spray or losing everything. Had an awful spider mite infestation. Neem Oil and Azamax was not helping. Spinosad was mediocre as well for mites. Absolutely did not want to resort to chemicals.

I was in week 5-6 in flower when I first heard of the habanero spray. Was hesitant at first, but then I realized the mites would kill my plants faster than any mold/mildew ever could so fuck it right? I sprayed with this spray 1-2 times a day. I wasn't able to 100% eliminate the mites, but I kept them at bay and was able to continue the harvest. Meanwhile, not a single issue with mold/mildew. And no pepper taste to the bud when I stopped 3 days prior to harvest.

So, by fucking up, I was able to learn and grow from it as I realized that simply spraying my buds won't cause issues. If spraying my buds causes issues, its because I had issues already brewing that were just waiting for a catalyst to spark them.

This emboldened me. "If I had no mold/mildew issues foliar feeding habanero spray 1-2 times a day in flower", I thought "Foliar feeding must not be a problem". It has held true to this day, for me personally.

With how much time/effort we put into our plants/grows, we see them like our own kids. However, much like kids, you eventually grow to realize how YOU are the one that is limiting THEM. It's good to oversee them, and protect them when necessary. However, doing so to the point where you end up limiting them will hurt more than help in the end.

I was afraid of foliar feeding 5-6 years ago too. "Afraid I'll get mold/mildew", I thought. But being forced into spraying habanero spray 1-2 times a day until the last few days of harvest really made me realize just how non-threatening foliar feeding is. If we have no spores in our grow room, there's literally 0% chance of mold/mildew. No spore = no mold/mildew. So, even if you have the best breeding ground for them, they cannot exist without spores. The spores then have to come into contact, and then need to procreate. That's multiple opportunities for us as growers to remedy the situation before it becomes a problem.

This is a bold statement, but I believe it: If you ever experience mold/mildew (not including caterpillar damage), then you had other problems that needed to be addressed before you even planted seeds.

Consider people that grow mushrooms, they too are spores. Talk to someone that grows mushrooms, ask them how hard they have to work to produce the perfect conditions to grow spores into mushrooms. If anything, people that grow shrooms are probably giggling at some of us for reacting so much to mold/mildew.

If I experienced mold in a tent grow inside my house, I wouldn't be worried about my grow. At that point, I'd be testing the house itself for mold.

VILEPLUME said:

One of the early Gorilla Glue phenos. Grew the same clone in synthetics and it did not produce that white cap. Left some yellow to show you guys on the bud leaves from the Mag deficiency.

Overall it turned out ok, still 50/50 on if I'm going to switch. I think the next run will be better, but if it's not I'm definitely going to switch back.

My main mess ups were giving them extra gypsum and OSF. I also waited 3 weeks after I switched to bloom to feed them again as I thought I over fed them. Then I fed them every week but thought I over fed again and then did no nutes for the last 3 weeks. Next grow is 2 weeks feed until week 7, I always harvest at 9 weeks and buy 8-9 week strains. I could chop at 8 but that extra week always adds like 20% more weight.

Good news is that the wedding cake strain turned out better than the synthetic grow. I'll post pictures next week when I harvest.

Click to expand...

Stick with the organics friend, you'll get it soon enough. That being said, stick with what works for you in the meantime while you fine tune your living soil
growing method.

Coots used the example of baking bread as an example for organic growing. This is because, you and I can take the same bread recipe and prepare it right? But, your temps and humidity will be different than mine. So, the yeast will develop at different rates. We're all capable of baking good bread, but we have to consider our own personal environments in order to perfect the bread.

Unless 2 people live in the same area, their organic grows will not be the same. This is because, ignoring the soil, you have to consider your own personal climate/water/environment/soil texture/etc.

Organics is in fact no maintenance, but only if one is willing to go through the work to get it there in the first place. It takes a lot to create a closed loop system. But, once we create this closed loop system we can sit back and let it do the work.

It's easy to say "it's not hard to make a good soil", which is true. But fact is, the soil is but one part of the entire component. Plant/selection, grow environment, and water quality not only need to be taken into account (as variables), but will also be different from most other people's.

Most living soil grows will actually suck at first, even if you follow a recipe. This is because, it has to be tailored to your environment/situation. Even if you plan perfectly, you still need the experience of dealing with your own personal/uniqute variables.

If you grow the dank in hydro, stick to hydro. In the meantime, fuck around with a plant or two in a living soil environment. You'll learn the most this way, because there's no pressure. Who cares if you fuck up a single plant or 2 right? The rest of your grow is your tried and true, giving you the results YOU want. You can not give a fuck about the single plant or two, and still get what you want. Better than that, you'll learn. Because you won't be in a panic over the success of the grow. No pressure = easy learning.



How's the smoke though? Because that's what kept me to pursue it. My yields suffered at first, but the quality of the end product was enough to provide me with the tenacity to push forward with it.

Stay up my man, you got this.