First time....Autopot Autoflower Balcony Grow, NL, Biodiesel, White Dwarf

budbuddingding

Active Member
its coco so has no nutes in it....supposed to be a good medium for drainage and got some clay pebbles at the bottom...if.overfed wouldnt they be darker? im using hesi tnt, root conplex and powerzyme at the moment. maybe im overdoing one of them but i dont think its the tnt....the leaves would be much darker from N abundance. im wondering if changes in feeding are as gradual in coco as they are in soil. but yeah ill probably mix clay pebbles with coco from now on if thats a known issue....
 

robro

Active Member
its coco so has no nutes in it....supposed to be a good medium for drainage and got some clay pebbles at the bottom...if.overfed wouldnt they be darker? im using hesi tnt, root conplex and powerzyme at the moment. maybe im overdoing one of them but i dont think its the tnt....the leaves would be much darker from N abundance. im wondering if changes in feeding are as gradual in coco as they are in soil. but yeah ill probably mix clay pebbles with coco from now on if thats a known issue....[/ Effects of nutes can take a week or longer 2 show on plants.I think the curling of the leaves could be down to full strength nutes,they looked ok on the pics though,apart from the last one of NL.Get yer nutes down to 1/4 to 1/3rd strength for now,probably advisable to flush those full strength nutes out first.
 

tekdc911

Well-Known Member
but he's saying there 3 weeks and showing preflower by all means im not nocking your grow but something is slowing them down 2013-04-01 16.51.08.jpg2013-02-23 08.08.46.jpgfirst is a amnesia auto compariable in size at finish to NL
second is a white widow auto not as lanky on the side branches but vertical is close to nl finish these are both about 3-4 weeks just showing preflower like i said im not trying to one up just help i would stop the nutes until rapid growth begins slow down on the water auto's like it when the soil drys up a bit between water/feeding i grow under 400 watts of cfl on 24/0 not even close to what the sun puts out light shouldnt be a problem
a auto pot should be kickin my butt just sayin
 

robro

Active Member
Yeah something has slowed them down tekdc911,do you think it could be coz of not much coco in the pots and therefore the plant being inside the pots ,not above them.The black pots would absorb the suns heat then radiate surplus heat inside the pot,creating a mini oven inside the pot,and heat stress/damage to plants.Giving them full strength nutes has just complicated things i think,but as they are still alive theres still hope.Just a thought.
 

budbuddingding

Active Member
hey guys...


so guess what

i didnt flush....carried on with nutes and the WD and BDM are doing great.

the NL was still tiny, and i just had a feeling they could have been rootbound to the jiffy pellet. checked out online and it seems a few people had this issue. dug her up...and that was the issue with size. the roots couldnt get out of the bottom, and had started climbing out of the top of the pellet. poor little plant! cut some holes in the pellet bottom, and watered. hopefully the roots are now sorting themselves out but it has further slowed the growth on top...so hopefully she can catch up with the others before i hit the bloom nutes...which will probably be in a week or 2.

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i have also filled the pots up with more coco, as i do think robro has a point with the heat stress of the pot sides....they were indeed making it pretty hot in there. checked the temps on a sunny day, in the sun it was hitting around 35C, with the fan on it cooled them down alot though. some of the tips are still a bit white, the cotyledons and first tru leaves have pretty much all gone on all plants but i guess that doesnt matter too much. currently harding off on balcony before putting them out there full time

pics taken on 4/5/13

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l to r first pic WD, BDM, NL
second pic shows difference in coco level, after i had filled one of them
third pic shows pistils and leaf development at internodes

next pics taken 6/5/13
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next taken 7/5/13
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next taken 10/5/13

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next taken today 13/5/13 (32 days from sprouting)

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Biodiesel
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White Dwarf
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Northern Lights
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I was almost ready to chuck the NL.....waste of nutes and coco so far but i suppose if i get a couple of Js worth off her its ok...its a learning curve after all....from now on every fucking jiffy pellet i use im gonna cut some holes in, cant risk this shit again.

as you can see....theyre coming on nicely and growth is great at the moment. im pretty sure the 2 big ones are starting flowering but im gonna stick with the veg nutes for a bit longer to get a bit more growth out of them.

ive started letting my water sit for a few days in advance now too. i think the white tips is a magnesium issue but it hasnt spread and all new growth looks lovely...so ill keep doing what im doing i think!

enjoy the pics! about a month to go til harvest then....!!! catch you all soon, next update should have baby buds!
 

tyedyed60

Active Member
Where did u get your set up, & how much did it cost u ??? Im thinking of trying something different & heard that's pretty good
 

budbuddingding

Active Member
Where did u get your set up, & how much did it cost u ??? Im thinking of trying something different & heard that's pretty good
Hi! i ordered everything from a Spanish company, apart from seeds are from herbies. total cost was around 350, although i haven't hooked up the reservoir to the autopots yet, I'm still hand watering from the top...

was initially considering a tent set up but decent lighting, decent ventilation and humidity/temp control and of course a decent tent would have cost at least double....most of the full tent kits i could find seemed to have really budget equipment....

should be hooking up the res in the coming weeks so ill be updating with more info on the system itself

good luck with whatever you go with ! :-)
 

tekdc911

Well-Known Member
its coco so has no nutes in it....supposed to be a good medium for drainage and got some clay pebbles at the bottom...if.overfed wouldnt they be darker? im using hesi tnt, root conplex and powerzyme at the moment. maybe im overdoing one of them but i dont think its the tnt....the leaves would be much darker from N abundance. im wondering if changes in feeding are as gradual in coco as they are in soil. but yeah ill probably mix clay pebbles with coco from now on if thats a known issue....
well the only problem i see with saying that coco has no nutes is its a natural fiber that when you add water starts to decompose and that would be what plants eat is rotten stuff
 

budbuddingding

Active Member
thats enough to support a auto for a couple weeks if not until preflower
hmm....so not just minor trace elements? everywhere i read it says plants in coco need feeding from day 1...i did start with 1/4 strength and worked upwards from there...maybe that hasnt helped the NL....it still hasnt grown much but if the roots were recovering and now growing, i can only hope its all going well down there! it has new growth on top, the leaves that were forming last week are no formed, and a new set appear to be on the way. But the nutes havent bothered the other 2 so far, so it cant be too big an issue...

I did a check of all the autopot valves and cleaned out the trays today, as i wanted to set up the res with 5L to check the system. Shitty weather here means im gonna have to wait til next week before they go onto the balcony permanently. The night time temps in the room they are in go as low as 16C but i suppose its good preparation for when the go out. not so good for the rootzone...but nothing i can really do about that.(did you know in Spain the heating companies actually switch the systems off in the "summer" months? from May til September or Oct or something.....only found out about this recently. Combined with some cold weather for this time of year is a pretty naff combination!) so far the res and valves all look to be working perfectly. we will see how long this 5L lasts.

I have also switched from hesi tnt to hesi coco. I thought i might stay with the tnt for longer to see if the NL would beef up a bit, but as the 2 larger plants have slowed vertical growth over the last few days i think its time for the hesi coco. will see how they react. Plus many Hesi users dont bother with TNT and use Hesi coco from the start so it shouldnt really interfere with whatever the NL is doing. Plus its higher in P which supposedly is good for root growth. so far i cant see any coming out of the bottom of any of the pots, but there is a "marix disc" in there at the bottom so i look in through the holes and see nothing but this material. as far as i can tell there is no way of checking the roots development that doesnt involve taking the plants out which i am not going to do.

i have considered trimming some of the smallest bottom leaves, but as i understand the plant would then expend energy on repair rather than growth...so ill leave it.

pics taken 16/5/13
l to r WD, BD, NL
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pics taken today (18/6/13) 37 days from sprout. other journals seem to have much better development by now, i think a lack of good weather has had a lot to do with it. that and maybe i should have been watering daily once the plants had grown a bit.....apparently treating coco like hydro (as in water everyday to keep the medium wet) boosts growth.... if all 3 plants on the next grow develop similarly i may put the res on earlier next time.
L to R WD, NL, BD
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Biodiesel shots.....getting a bit frosty although the pics dont show it too much.
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White Dwarf
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The White Dwarf is showing light brown spots on old fan leaves, i think it could be either P or K deficiency, another reason i switched to Hesi Coco. i think I will use TNT for first 2 weeks next time.
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White Dwarf and Biodiesel are around the 35cm mark, the NL around 15cm
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Next time i think i will let them grow nute free for a week, then tnt weeks 2 and 3, get the res on with Hesi Coco at wks 4 onwards, adding the PK boster in week 6 and 7 then flushing in 8/9 or something.

anyway, peace be with you! more updates soon. any more tips and or advice would be greatly appreciated.
 

skorchem

Well-Known Member
From my experience autoflowers dont need much water or much feed for the first 3 weeks, and also letting your coco dry out helps the roots to grow and search for water. The tap root is like a depth plunger, it will travel down deep under the soil and once it cant go any thurther it will then start to spread outwards and create its network, the length of the tap root will determine the overall size of the final plant. That is why when you had problems with your roots getting out of your starting plug on the NL its size has stunted and there is no way of it getting bigger, compare its leaf size to your other plants and you will see the difference. Any new leafs that will now grow will not grow any larger than what it already has.
 

skorchem

Well-Known Member
Another quick tip for quick maximum growth: I also use autopots and I have found that if you pearce your jiffy pellets with a thin screwdriver or sowing needle several times and then when your seedling has rooted through, soak it in water then bury it in your coco about an inch bellow the surface and then hook your res up, the water will wick up into the coco and the tap root will reach the bottom of the pot in a week and i guantee your plants will grow very fast after this. from this point you wont need to water from the top anymore. but it is also benificial to put an inch layer of clay pebbles ontop of your coco to help the roots stay below the surface and to detract bugs on the surface :)
 

budbuddingding

Active Member
From my experience autoflowers dont need much water or much feed for the first 3 weeks, and also letting your coco dry out helps the roots to grow and search for water. The tap root is like a depth plunger, it will travel down deep under the soil and once it cant go any thurther it will then start to spread outwards and create its network, the length of the tap root will determine the overall size of the final plant. That is why when you had problems with your roots getting out of your starting plug on the NL its size has stunted and there is no way of it getting bigger, compare its leaf size to your other plants and you will see the difference. Any new leafs that will now grow will not grow any larger than what it already has.
Hey Skorchem, thanks for the great advice....so the NL has no chance basically? I thought so myself....the other 2 are starting to flower up and the NL is just pathetic in comparison haha....although i think ill carry on growing it, deprive it of nutes, give it some nute burn as well and experiment with her....also as an example for people to see how NOT to grow the herb lol. plus i seem to have misplaced my T splitter for the autopots so i have to have all 3 hooked up...unless you think i could block one hole of the X splitter with something? i thought maybe the roots of the NL would develop more once they were freed up but it has been some time now. still new growth happening, the leaves coming out are now 5 fingered, while the roots were trapped only 3 fingered leaves were coming out, so 5 fingered now and bigger (not by much) than the earlier leaves, i think it HAD a chance but i was too late identifying the issue with her. initially i thought diff strains, growing at diff rates but with the development of the other 2 it got to a point where i had to figure out what was really going on.

Another quick tip for quick maximum growth: I also use autopots and I have found that if you pearce your jiffy pellets with a thin screwdriver or sowing needle several times and then when your seedling has rooted through, soak it in water then bury it in your coco about an inch bellow the surface and then hook your res up, the water will wick up into the coco and the tap root will reach the bottom of the pot in a week and i guantee your plants will grow very fast after this. from this point you wont need to water from the top anymore. but it is also benificial to put an inch layer of clay pebbles ontop of your coco to help the roots stay below the surface and to detract bugs on the surface :)
great i have been trying to figure out the best way to use the autopots.....i also found some advice elsewhere with this pic:

potinpot1.png

suggesting instead of having to transplant at all, use a party cup with the bottom cut out, water in the cup for first weeks and then water rest of pot (use res?) do you think this would work? is there any real benefit to using the jiffy pellets? or does the mesh actually slow the roots initial growth down? will definitely add pebbles to the top of mix next grow too. i think ill actually mix more pebbles throughout the mix too rather than just at top and bottom. 80/20 coco to pebbles perhaps?

So i had the res with 5 L of nute mix, it took a good few days for them to drink that up. the aqua valves didnt look like they were actually letting the pots dry before releasing more water, from what i could see they were just filling to the level and maintaining the water level in the pots. So when flushing i gave the pots and stuff a good clean, checked out the autopot website and reset the aqua valves. I had done this initially but maybe the silicones had become displaces. Will see what happens when i hook the res up next.....hopefully it will work as is meant to if not il just leave it to do its thing and watch out for any issues that come up...

Night time temps outdoor are still going below 10C, but that looks to change next week. so i took the opportunity, before putting them out, to give them a flush to sort any build up of salts. Flushed with some runoff and half strength Hesi coco, then let them dry out a little. White Dwarf is showing more brown spots, i can only assume its a P/K deficiency so yesterday I flushed again, with 3/4 strength of Hesi COCO and PK13/14, and a bit of powerzyme and a drop of supervit. The White Dwarf has actually grown a bit taller than the Biodiesel now. The WD seems to need more nutes in general, should i ever give more than the recommended dose? The Biodiesel on the other hand seems to be fine with the nute level at full strength, and hasnt suffered at all with the flushing with weaker mixes.

I also need to repaint most parts of the balcony before they go out. I have been putting them out most days, they are harding off nicely, stems are much thicker and they dont flop about so much in the wind anymore.

Pics taken 23/5/13 (6 weeks/42 days from sprouting):
left to right WD, NL, BD
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you can see the NL has grown a bit since the roots were freed but yeah...havent seen a hint of bud growing so i dont think ill be getting anything off her. still a bit pale too.

Pic taken 24/5/13 43 days from sprouting (what is FROM SEED exactly? from the moment you start to soak the seed or what?)
Left to right, NL, BD, WD
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Pics taken today, 28/5/13 47 days from sprout.

WD left, BD right
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White Dwarf
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Biodiesel Mass
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Most other journals have a lot more bud by now, not sure if this is normal rate, they seem ok, buds are growing just not particularly fast. this is why i will switch to hesi coco earlier next time and start the pk supplements sooner. plus hopefully with all the advice from you guys ill be able to get them off to a much better start next round and this will all result in bigger plants and yield. they are 45 - 50cm ish now. They probably both have another 4 weeks or so left roughly coincides with the breeders harvest times, which means in 2 weeks or so ill start germing the next batch. Ive decided to germinate the same strains as this time and Automazars as my 3rd grow rather than 2nd. I have read countless journals of automazar taking longer to finish than expected. If i do them in the middle of the summer, it may not leave me with enough time to get a 3rd grow in. so Ill be seeing the NL in full growth sooner than expected!

From these pics does it look like any of them need trimming? mainly cos there are some really pathetic little bud sites lower down on both plants that down look like they are going to amount to much....wonder if its better to trim these little ones off?? but ive also read NOT to trim autos.....so im a bit confused about this....to trim or not to trim lol. im so tempted. how about for airflow?

So far I like the way the WD and BD are growing. The Biodiesel seems to be good with varied nutrient strengths, and the White Dwarf appears to be much more sensitive in that respect. The White Dwarf grows more consistently, ie its more symmetrical than the BD in terms of bud sites and secondary cola / internode growths. and the fact that once it reached 5 fingers, the WD kept growing 5 fingered leaves....The BD went to 5 fingers then grew a set of mutant 4 fingered leaves, now top leaves are growing out with 3 fingers. Bd also has had occasions of twisted leaf growth, usually sorts itself out eventually though. Another note is the trichs were appearing on the BD ages ago, they are only just really getting going on the WD. The BD has fatter bits of bud growing, the WD has more vertical bud growth happening. very interesting to compare the 2. Ill let you know which smokes better in a around a month and a half hahaha!

if anyone has any tips or comments or answers to any of my questions id love to hear them! So far im just glad i havent fucked them all up hehe....first grow, i think its going ok and cant wait to get the 2nd one growing, better weather, more experience will surely equal better buds!

Peace :lol:
 

robro

Active Member
hello again budbud,ive not been online lately, pleased 2 see that you still have 2 plants in flowering.Pity about the NL,i think it got cooked a bit sooner than you planned.It looks like the other 2 have been affected by the heat when they were younger,they arent as bushy as they should be and not a great lot of bud sites from what i can see on the pics.You will get a smaller yield than normal i think,Ive had a few stunted and usually get half an oz off them.Better than nowt until the next ones are ready.I think you will have learned a lot from your first grow,and like me,it wont be your last fuck up.But its all worth it for the end reward,smoking your own home grown weed.Good luck on the run in to harvest.
 

budbuddingding

Active Member
hey Robro!

i think you are right, definitely not as bushy as they should be, in fact there was mainly only vertical growth til pre flower, only after that did they start branching out sideways. heat stress sounds about right but mate if i get half an oz from each of these 2 il consider it a sucess lol. there are quite a few bud sites they are all just quite small. pinched a few of the lowest growths coming off the 1st set of true leaves, probably should pinch a few others that are small and lower down too but i think they have been thru enough already haha will put fresh pics up soon
 

budbuddingding

Active Member
today is day 59 from sprout...i think...lol....

these pics from yesterday:

All 3 together, NL, WD, BD left to right

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BioDiesel Mass....

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White Dwarf now around 55cm:

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NL has grown a lot recently, i suspect the roots took some time to develop once they could get out of the jiffy, so shes kinda catching up i see some pistils developing all over but really the calyxes themselves are virtually invisible cos they are so damn small haha...

here she is next to WD for comparison

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few more pics of NL

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The WD has started showing some further deficiency....even with all the info online i still cant seem to find exactly what the issue here might be but just cos its coco and i was suspicious of mag def earlier it could now be calcium def too, which would make sense although not all the pics of these deficiencies look similar so its hard to tell for a new grower. started on lower leaves but its getting further n further up, all on old growth, new growth looks fine.

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it is showing very slightly on the biodiesel mass but as mentioned before the BD seems a lot less picky with the nutes haha.

the ladies are starting to smell stronger, still delaying the balcony move cos of more awful weather, im also quite close to the coast so have a fair bit of humidity around here, so drier, warmer weather is imperative before i put them outside. even indoors with the windows slightly ajar, it is averaging 18C under clouds...so tempted just to ditch these and start the next grow lol but they do have some bud, and some bud is always better than no bud! at one point i was about to just trim off everything but the main cola....has anyone ever done this with an auto? how much trimming, if any, can autos take?.

ive also recently been told by my partner that this room of the flat has had humidity issues with the walls, so i think along with the heat stress these few things combined, plus my dumb self sowing the seeds halfway down the fucking pots....such a fatal error to have made!

i filled the res with 10L of full strength nute mix about 4 days ago....and they are taking ages to drink it. think they are halfway through... even after setting the aquavalves again they still dont seem to be working 100% as they should be.....one of them does look likes its ALMOST fully drying out before refilling, but even so, as coco is supposedly to be treated as hydro, it should be fine right? in coco, i have read its important at the beginning to let coco dry a bit for the roots to stretch, which i did so there should be no problem with them having water all the time...

used my 30x loupe to try n check the trichs out.....to me they all look milky but obviously they cant be yet, my strategy for harvest will b to look for a few amber trichs....will chop when i spot a few of them. still maybe 30 days to go, breeders descriptions are in the 70 - 90 day region so not too long to go hopefully. id really like to germ my next batch of seeds asap, i was planning on letting them root in a jiffy in a open bottom party cup, but am worried that if the ones in flower dont finish before the new seedlings are ready for the big pots they will end up rootbound and stunted...but if i dont germ soon ill only get 2 grows not 3....dont really wanna get mid size pots and have to transplant more than i can avoid lol.......tips again as always are most welcome!

updates soon
 
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