Good value lights for a 1st timer?

xtsho said:

600 watt HPS. Done. Regardless of what all the LED guys say there is nothing wrong with HID. It's a proven lighting technology for growing plants and can be had for $150 instead of an $800 LED.

I'm so sick of everyone slamming HPS because they bought some overpriced LED and have to justify it by slamming a lighting technology that has been growing good weed for decades. Go ahead and spend $800 on a light that produces the same results as a $150 HID. I'm growing weed not playing with technology. I'll continue growing fire with my HPS while others are looking at charts, light spectrum's, and focusing on drivers. Plus the money I save by not spending four to five times as much to get the same light intensity will be well spent on single malt scotch.

Now I have to go plant some tomatoes in the garden. Oh by the way, I feed my vegetables the same nutrients I use to grow pot. I also don't pay for bottles of watered down chemicals in fancy bottles with cool sounding names. It's a damn plant. Not rocket science. And it doesn't need the latest doo dads and overpriced technology to grow.

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Off topic but what are you feeding with?
Great post by the way

OneHitDone said:

Off topic but what are you feeding with?
Great post by the way

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I feed with simple and proven nutrients. Calcium nitrate, monopotassium phosphate and a micro-nutrient blend that contains everything else cannabis needs. The brand I use is called VitaGrow. But it's really just repackaged with a VitaGrow label. But I can buy it in small ten lb packages instead of buying 50 lb bags. It's also from the oldest hydro shop in Portland. American Agriculture has been in business since 1982. Many of the old growers in Portland have been using it for years. Plus I can walk there in ten minutes from my house so I like supporting a local small business. The guy that used to be involved or started the business is the guy behind Flying Skull products. American Agriculture has everything you need to grow cannabis. But one thing they don't sell is overpriced LED's. They only sell HID and fluorescent. The customer base is people that know what they're doing and don't need any gimmick products or fancy technology. It's a shop for growers.

https://www.vitagrow.com/

https://www.americanag.com/

xtsho said:

600 watt HPS. Done. Regardless of what all the LED guys say there is nothing wrong with HID. It's a proven lighting technology for growing plants and can be had for $150 instead of an $800 LED.

I'm so sick of everyone slamming HPS because they bought some overpriced LED and have to justify it by slamming a lighting technology that has been growing good weed for decades. Go ahead and spend $800 on a light that produces the same results as a $150 HID. I'm growing weed not playing with technology. I'll continue growing fire with my HPS while others are looking at charts, light spectrum's, and focusing on drivers. Plus the money I save by not spending four to five times as much to get the same light intensity will be well spent on single malt scotch.

Now I have to go plant some tomatoes in the garden. Oh by the way, I feed my vegetables the same nutrients I use to grow pot. I also don't pay for bottles of watered down chemicals in fancy bottles with cool sounding names. It's a damn plant. Not rocket science. And it doesn't need the latest doo dads and overpriced technology to grow.

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It's true HPS does a great job. But it comes down to efficiency and heat. 4 autocobs on average will out produce a 600w hps and with only using 256w. The cost of running a 600w hps is about $61 per month and 4 autocobs come in at $26 a month. That's $35 dollars per month savings. As you can see it doesn't take long to add up. And the cost of these cobs are not "$800"

I've grown with multiple 1000w HPS and with Autocobs. The price of weed since legalization has tanked so much growers have to be as efficient as possible. You can grab an ounce of weed off a variety of online distributers in Canada right now for $100. So in Canada and soon enough the US, growers will need to cut costs where ever they can to make their hobby worth the effort.

That's my take on it.

(Edit) Just for example, using one of the older 56w autocobs. The total cost to grow this plant in power was $14.25. It produced 4.2 ounces in 80 days from seed under 1 autocob. This was an Autoflower running 20/4 light schedule.

Zogs said:

It's true HPS does a great job. But it comes down to efficiency and heat. 4 autocobs on average will out produce a 600w hps and with only using 256w. The cost of running a 600w hps is about $61 per month and 4 autocobs come in at $26 a month. That's $35 dollars per month savings. As you can see it doesn't take long to add up. And the cost of these cobs are not "$800"

I've grown with multiple 1000w HPS and with Autocobs. The price of weed since legalization has tanked so much growers have to be as efficient as possible. You can grab an ounce of weed off a variety of online distributers in Canada right now for $100. So in Canada and soon enough the US, growers will need to cut costs where ever they can to make their hobby worth the effort.

That's my take on it.

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I hope people don't think I'm in any way bashing LED's. I'm not. They are more efficient energy wise and some do have a much lower heat footprint. But they don't grow better weed than HID's. Where I'm at with cheap power and the methods for eliminating heat the energy cost savings is irrelevant. In fact during the winter I put a heater in my tent so the HID heat is actually good.

LED's grow good weed and so do HID's. I'm just tired of the condescending attitude many have towards those of us using HID's. I'm not referring to you but I'm sure you've seen the posts calling those using HID's as "Stuck in the past", "Outdated technology", etc... Many of us are doing better with our HID's than those that spent much more on their LED's. Well they payed twice or more as much so the lights better produce. I've been gardening since I was three years old so close to fifty years. I can grow anything. One thing I've learned is that money doesn't grow plants. Knowledge and experience does. I can outgrow others for a fraction of the cost they spend. The cannabis industry has become the hunting ground for slick marketing and used car salesman like tactics. If I was a man lacking moral character I would be pushing some unnecessary overpriced product and making a killing. I'm just a happy gardener so I'll leave all that to the shysters.

Regardless, lets all just take a bong hit and enjoy growing weed and life in general.

In my opinion its simple if heat might be an issue go LED if not anything proven to grow. Nothing wrong with HID's it boils down to what your preference and circumstances are. LED you will pay more upfront and HID's more on the back end. Both have their benefits and weaknesses for growth but they are relatively marginal.

Zogs said:

It's true HPS does a great job. But it comes down to efficiency and heat. 4 autocobs on average will out produce a 600w hps and with only using 256w. The cost of running a 600w hps is about $61 per month and 4 autocobs come in at $26 a month. That's $35 dollars per month savings. As you can see it doesn't take long to add up. And the cost of these cobs are not "$800"

I've grown with multiple 1000w HPS and with Autocobs. The price of weed since legalization has tanked so much growers have to be as efficient as possible. You can grab an ounce of weed off a variety of online distributers in Canada right now for $100. So in Canada and soon enough the US, growers will need to cut costs where ever they can to make their hobby worth the effort.

That's my take on it.

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While I agree that overhead is more important now than ever, 35 dollars a month is only 70 dollars per flowering cycle. I know you say you get the same yield from 256 watts of cobs as a 600 watt hps but either your killing it with cobs or didn’t do very well with hps. For the average grower id be willing to bet that they would get at least an ounce (most likely more than an ounce more) more yield from a 600 hps than the 256 watts of cobs. So your 70 dollars more per cycle would be recouped fairly quickly.

Personally from now on any new grower that asks me about light and tent for beginner or personal supply i will recommend a 3x3x6 with a 315 cmh. I’ve grown with all different kinds of lights mh, hps, de cmh, cmh, led (quantum boards) and the quality is hands down better under cmh (prefer Phillips bulbs). Like noticeabley better to the point the guy at my hydro store asked me what I’m doing different, I told him nothing other than the light. In my opinion it’s the perfect small setup. You can still reach everything very well in a 3x3 compared to a 4x4 and it’s the perfect foot print for a 315 cmh. Here is a pic of two diff tents just like I recommended these are 20ish days old in picture.


Also here is last batch right before chop should have added second layer of trellis so they a lil floppy.


I won’t be running these after this cycle makes me kinda sad but just built a room and need all my power for back there. Wish could have afforded to go all cmh but just wasn’t in the budget so de hps it is.

Apalchen said:

While I agree that overhead is more important now than ever, 35 dollars a month is only 70 dollars per flowering cycle. I know you say you get the same yield from 256 watts of cobs as a 600 watt hps but either your killing it with cobs or didn’t do very well with hps. For the average grower id be willing to bet that they would get at least an ounce (most likely more than an ounce more) more yield from a 600 hps than the 256 watts of cobs. So your 70 dollars more per cycle would be recouped fairly quickly.

Personally from now on any new grower that asks me about light and tent for beginner or personal supply i will recommend a 3x3x6 with a 315 cmh. I’ve grown with all different kinds of lights mh, hps, de cmh, cmh, led (quantum boards) and the quality is hands down better under cmh (prefer Phillips bulbs). Like noticeabley better to the point the guy at my hydro store asked me what I’m doing different, I told him nothing other than the light. In my opinion it’s the perfect small setup. You can still reach everything very well in a 3x3 compared to a 4x4 and it’s the perfect foot print for a 315 cmh. Here is a pic of two diff tents just like I recommended these are 20ish days old in picture.
View attachment 4327428
View attachment 4327429
Also here is last batch right before chop should have added second layer of trellis so they a lil floppy.
View attachment 4327430

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1. LED's are more efficient they put out more usable light per watt than HID lighting thats why you can get equal or bigger yields with less wattage.
2. You are probably seeing a better quality with CMH due to its content of IR and UV spectrum. HID's are superior in this aspect and thats why you see a lot of LED guys adding these spectrum's to make up for the difference. LED's like QB's do not come with these spectrum's.

There are reasons for every difference yet a lot of people cant explain and just say one is better than the other... That's why i say there are benefits and weaknesses between all lights.

Aqua Man said:

1. LED's are more efficient they put out more usable light per watt than HID lighting thats why you can get equal or bigger yields with less wattage.
2. You are probably seeing a better quality with CMH due to its content of IR and UV spectrum. HID's are superior in this aspect and thats why you see a lot of LED guys adding these spectrum's to make up for the difference. LED's like QB's do not come with these spectrum's.

There are reasons for every difference yet a lot of people cant explain and just say one is better than the other... That's why i say there are benefits and weaknesses between all lights.

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I agree for the most part but what I can’t believe is that 256 watts of cob will out yield 600 watts of hps. Even if the grower was hitting 2 grams per watt (some do but not most) that would still only be 512 grams. Where as you would only need to hit .85 grams per watt with a 600 to achieve that(which is pretty easy to do).

Not calling anyone a liar I’m sure it’s possible but It’s not the norm.

I’d trade my quantum boards for about anything of value at this point as I won’t be using them anymore there is just something missing and my plants don’t respond well.

Apalchen said:

I agree for the most part but what I can’t believe is that 256 watts of cob will out yield 600 watts of hps. Even if the grower was hitting 2 grams per watt (some do but not most) that would still only be 512 grams. Where as you would only need to hit .85 grams per watt with a 600 to achieve that(which is pretty easy to do).

Not calling anyone a liar I’m sure it’s possible but It’s not the norm.

I’d trade my quantum boards for about anything of value at this point as I won’t be using them anymore there is just something missing and my plants don’t respond well.

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Fair assessment. What QB's do you have and what do you want for them?

xtsho said:

I hope people don't think I'm in any way bashing LED's. I'm not. They are more efficient energy wise and some do have a much lower heat footprint. But they don't grow better weed than HID's. Where I'm at with cheap power and the methods for eliminating heat the energy cost savings is irrelevant. In fact during the winter I put a heater in my tent so the HID heat is actually good.

LED's grow good weed and so do HID's. I'm just tired of the condescending attitude many have towards those of us using HID's. I'm not referring to you but I'm sure you've seen the posts calling those using HID's as "Stuck in the past", "Outdated technology", etc... Many of us are doing better with our HID's than those that spent much more on their LED's. Well they payed twice or more as much so the lights better produce. I've been gardening since I was three years old so close to fifty years. I can grow anything. One thing I've learned is that money doesn't grow plants. Knowledge and experience does. I can outgrow others for a fraction of the cost they spend. The cannabis industry has become the hunting ground for slick marketing and used car salesman like tactics. If I was a man lacking moral character I would be pushing some unnecessary overpriced product and making a killing. I'm just a happy gardener so I'll leave all that to the shysters.

Regardless, lets all just take a bong hit and enjoy growing weed and life in general.

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Preach brother

I have the 320 xl kit its 3 v1 288 boards on one long heat sink don’t remember what driver numbers are but it’s the meanwell one the kits come with. And I feel kinda stuck with it since it’s kinda hard to sell anonymously.

Apalchen said:

I have the 320 xl kit its 3 v1 288 boards on one long heat sink don’t remember what driver numbers are but it’s the meanwell one the kits come with. And I feel kinda stuck with it since it’s kinda hard to sell anonymously.

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you in Canada? Better yet PM me if ya wanna get rid of em

Aqua Man said:

you in Canada? Better yet PM me if ya wanna get rid of em

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That's what I was going to say

Finally some decent conversation about the pro's and con's of different lighting technology.

xtsho said:

600 watt HPS. Done. Regardless of what all the LED guys say there is nothing wrong with HID. It's a proven lighting technology for growing plants and can be had for $150 instead of an $800 LED.

I'm so sick of everyone slamming HPS because they bought some overpriced LED and have to justify it by slamming a lighting technology that has been growing good weed for decades. Go ahead and spend $800 on a light that produces the same results as a $150 HID. I'm growing weed not playing with technology. I'll continue growing fire with my HPS while others are looking at charts, light spectrum's, and focusing on drivers. Plus the money I save by not spending four to five times as much to get the same light intensity will be well spent on single malt scotch.

Now I have to go plant some tomatoes in the garden. Oh by the way, I feed my vegetables the same nutrients I use to grow pot. I also don't pay for bottles of watered down chemicals in fancy bottles with cool sounding names. It's a damn plant. Not rocket science. And it doesn't need the latest doo dads and overpriced technology to grow.

Click to expand...

Hands down HPS is proven technology, however environment may often dictate which light fixture is best/optimal. For instance in my case I weighed all options for setup based on my environment. Should I have used HPS I would then have the added expense of ac and more airflow. I started with CMH and it pushed the limits of temp and RH so I purchased HLG-600H, problem solved. But if I lived in colder climates then my choice would be HPS. Cheers

Bourbon 2 said:

Hands down HPS is proven technology, however environment may often dictate which light fixture is best/optimal. For instance in my case I weighed all options for setup based on my environment. Should I have used HPS I would then have the added expense of ac and more airflow. I started with CMH and it pushed the limits of temp and RH so I purchased HLG-600H, problem solved. But if I lived in colder climates then my choice would be HPS. Cheers

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Great example

xtsho said:

Finally some decent conversation about the pro's and con's of different lighting technology.

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This is what is needed to get a full understanding,a view from both sides...

Not in Canada, wish I was, then wouldn’t be paranoid to sell the light as you guys have pretty lax laws.

Also I’m not at all saying QB can’t grow fire herb I’ve seen beautiful pictures, just that I can’t seem to achieve it myself. I’m just used to hid and I’m pretty sure that the biggest difference is the hid put out enough radiant heat and the quantum boards don’t focus heat that direction. I should try again with a seperate fan for just that tent on a thermostat so can keep it warmer but I’d rather not have to turn another whole run into concentrate if that doesn’t work better.

Apalchen said:

Not in Canada, wish I was, then wouldn’t be paranoid to sell the light as you guys have pretty lax laws.

Also I’m not at all saying QB can’t grow fire herb I’ve seen beautiful pictures, just that I can’t seem to achieve it myself. I’m just used to hid and I’m pretty sure that the biggest difference is the hid put out enough radiant heat and the quantum boards don’t focus heat that direction. I should try again with a seperate fan for just that tent on a thermostat so can keep it warmer but I’d rather not have to turn another whole run into concentrate if that doesn’t work better.

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I'll take em off your hands

Apalchen said:

I have the 320 xl kit its 3 v1 288 boards on one long heat sink don’t remember what driver numbers are but it’s the meanwell one the kits come with. And I feel kinda stuck with it since it’s kinda hard to sell anonymously.

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You don't have to sell anonymously in Canada anymore, it's legal. I just dumped my Viparspectra's on Kijiji.