Gun control is coming

cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Jjgrow420 said:
Duno?
A couple?
How many mass shootings do registered, licensed, responsible gun owners commit?
Silly questions to push your point.... Are there shootings? Of coarse. Is it a problem? Of coarse. It's absurd anyone loses their life that way. I dont have the answer, but I do know banning things doesn't work.
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if you can find even one mass shooting by an antigun activist, I’ll apologize.

Banning the things does work; we have the rest of the G7 as a control group. In the hands of a non-hard-right appellate court system, stopping the sale of ARs, AKs and similar is compatible with the Second Amendment.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Jjgrow420 said:
Duno?
A couple?
How many mass shootings do registered, licensed, responsible gun owners commit?
Silly questions to push your point.... Are there shootings? Of coarse. Is it a problem? Of coarse. It's absurd anyone loses their life that way. I dont have the answer, but I do know banning things doesn't work.
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It does work and there is plenty of examples of where it works very well indeed. 3% of the population owns 50% of the guns in America and 10% probably owns 70% of the guns. It works and there is ample evidence that it works very well and every time.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Jjgrow420 said:
I am 100% pro gun. I think anyone who wants whatever gun should be able to own it.....if they are responsible, and competent. now I also think there should be a specific class lisc for each type of weapon and you should have to get a psychological evaluation, competence testing, and the pay a certain fee to be able to own said weapon. And you should be tested at specific times maybe random etc.
People use knives as weapons. Ban all knives? Someone used a van to run up on the sidewalk and mow down people. Ban all vans?
Ban all knives over 12"?
Ban all 4door vans?
Silly.
Not fair to punish people who genuinely enjoy sport shooting/hunting and play by all the rules for the sins of others.
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other countries have stricter guns laws, and don't have the problems we have...we've had the mishmash shit pie you suggest, and we have the problems we have...coincidence? fuck no, it isn't a coincidence.
your idea failed years before you had it.
 
Tolerance Break

Tolerance Break

Well-Known Member
The rational problem is, people want an immediate fix to a fundamental problem, and people who defend the constitution fear making laws sidestepping the constitution sets a president for government overreach. Problem is the over reach has happened already, and the laws we need to put in place won't solve the problem in the next hundred years. No politician or party can take credit, in fact it's the opposite. Every year shootings get 1% better or .1% worse, the other side will say that it's "ineffective".

The silver lining is that I've spoken to many people on the right who've come to the conclusion it's a mental health problem, which is a hop, skip, and a jump from becoming a voting issue.

I haven't had my coffee... this is all opinion of course.
 
HGCC

HGCC

Well-Known Member
Jjgrow420 said:
Its a touchy subject I know.... I'm just voicing my opinion. Seems like the anti gun people are more angry than the pro gun people. Lol
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They hate my gun idea as well, dont worry about it. Both my all guns should be legal one and that you are required to own a huge dildo per gun.

This problem pretty much only exists here in America, there's like 5 a year across the rest of the world and we put those numbers up in a week. Why do you think that is?
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Jjgrow420 said:
oops. Apologies then. I made a mistake and thought that was you.
Couple too many puffs ;)
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The goal remains, to bring American mass violence stats in line with the civilized world. I see only one real way to do that: break the NRA which is now the Church of Firepower, and stop selling arms made to shoot many people quickly.

Note that I’m not advocating confiscation. However registry of assault weapons now in private hands would be a good idea. Folks will be more careful with their pew-pew if compulsory registry makes it easy to find and sue those whose arms ended up
used in a crime.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Tolerance Break said:
The rational problem is, people want an immediate fix to a fundamental problem, and people who defend the constitution fear making laws sidestepping the constitution sets a president for government overreach. Problem is the over reach has happened already, and the laws we need to put in place won't solve the problem in the next hundred years. No politician or party can take credit, in fact it's the opposite. Every year shootings get 1% better or .1% worse, the other side will say that it's "ineffective".

The silver lining is that I've spoken to many people on the right who've come to the conclusion it's a mental health problem, which is a hop, skip, and a jump from becoming a voting issue.

I haven't had my coffee... this is all opinion of course.
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I don't own a gun and would very much prefer that those who defend the 2A take ownership for reducing rates of gun homicide to that of other G7 nations. I very much doubt that the US has seven times more people who are mentally ill and violent, than, say, the French, but OK, if that's what the people you talk to believe, then fine. My question is, what do they propose we do? Are they willing to take action to address this supposed problem with mentally ill people killing their friends, family, bosses, store clerks, protesters, cops, random people in the street, etc. by gun? What would the solution entail?

Personally, I think this idea that "the US doesn't have a gun problem, it has a mental health problem" is just hot air and used to deflect the argument away from measures that have been shown to be effective. I also don't think that it's necessary to ban the ownership of most guns. Small shifts in homicide rates of 1% is just noise, so that's not enough. Canada has a gun homicide rate of less than 1/100,000 and the US has a rate that is about 7/100,000. Cutting the US rate by 50% would not be enough but would be a good start.

We are approaching a tipping point, where more people support tighter gun laws than those who oppose them. At some point, there will be a large enough majority to where we can get something done. The time is not now but when enough people support change in the US, change can happen rapidly. It would be good if gun owners proposed meaningful action and push for changes. I'd be glad if they did. I don't care for the alternative. Non-gun owners are already are a super majority in the US. The alternative is that non-gun owners drive this issue. That's coming if gun owners don't do it themselves.
 
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Tolerance Break

Tolerance Break

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I don't own a gun and would very much prefer that those who defend the 2A take ownership for reducing rates of gun homicide to that of other G7 nations. I very much doubt that the US has seven times more people who are mentally ill and violent, than, say, the French, but OK, if that's what the people you talk to believe, then fine. My question is, what do they propose we do? Are they willing to take action to address this supposed problem with mentally ill people killing their friends, family, bosses, store clerks, protesters, cops, random people in the street, etc. by gun? What would the solution entail?

Personally, I think this idea that "the US doesn't have a gun problem, it has a mental health problem" is just hot air and used to deflect the argument away from measures that have been shown to be effective. I also don't think that it's necessary to ban the ownership of most guns. Small shifts in homicide rates of 1% is just noise, so that's not enough. Canada has a gun homicide rate of less than 1/100,000 and the US has a rate that is about 7/100,000. Cutting the US rate by 50% would not be enough but would be a good start.

We are approaching a tipping point, where more people support tighter gun laws than those who oppose them. At some point, there will be a large enough majority to where we can get something done. The time is not now but when enough people support change in the US, change can happen rapidly. It would be good if gun owners proposed meaningful action and push for changes. I'd be glad if they did. I don't care for the alternative. Non-gun owners are already are a super majority in the US. The alternative is that non-gun owners drive this issue. That's coming if gun owners don't do it themselves.
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School shootings, some mass shootings, and suicides are a mental health problem.

The majority of murder and mass shootings are a ripple effect of, usually generational, poverty and neglect.

The US doesn't operate on a true majority, it operates in a gerrymandered representative democracy, but thats a whole other discussion.

Edit: the US has 5x the population over a much larger landmass, with a much weaker social welfare safety net. The cultural diversity from one corner of the country to the next is that of the European continent
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Tolerance Break said:
School shootings, some mass shootings, and suicides are a mental health problem.

The majority of murder and mass shootings are a ripple effect of, usually generational, poverty and neglect.

The US doesn't operate on a true majority, it operates in a gerrymandered representative democracy, but thats a whole other discussion.

Edit: the US has 5x the population over a much larger landmass, with a much weaker social welfare safety net. The cultural diversity from one corner of the country to the next is that of the European continent
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Fine, I'll take your word for that. What do the people you talk to say should be done?
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Tolerance Break said:
School shootings, some mass shootings, and suicides are a mental health problem.

The majority of murder and mass shootings are a ripple effect of, usually generational, poverty and neglect.

The US doesn't operate on a true majority, it operates in a gerrymandered representative democracy, but thats a whole other discussion.

Edit: the US has 5x the population over a much larger landmass, with a much weaker social welfare safety net. The cultural diversity from one corner of the country to the next is that of the European continent
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Caring for the mentally ill is a Republican antipriority. (Remember Reagan shuttering care facilities first in his state and then nationwide.) Treating those deaths as a gun problem is a more immediate solution.
 
Tolerance Break

Tolerance Break

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Fine, I'll take your word for that. What do the people you talk to say should be done?
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cannabineer said:
Caring for the mentally ill is a Republican antipriority. (Remember Reagan shuttering care facilities first in his state and then nationwide.) Treating those deaths as a gun problem is a more immediate solution.
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I'm not saying it's not a gun problem. I just don't believe long term anti gun solutions are being considered because you can't get re elected on something that won't have a major effect in a few years. That's my opinion.

I think addressing mental health and poverty will solve foundational problems in a relatively shorter, but still longterm, way.

If we only care about human suffering when it reaches crichendo, and the solution is to limit the ability of people to do harm without emphasizing relieving the core issues, mainly poverty and compassion. we are doomed to lowering the general quality of life for everyone.

The people I talk to are in the midst of a cultural shift. America is a young country, we haven't really come to terms with the idea of change. Lately the whole world is struggling with this, here it's magnified because we lack history and perspective. Political parties and priorities shift with time. I believe this is happening, for good and bad.

I don't have solutions, I'm a high-school drop out electrician who only wants to grow weed.

All I know is hope is free to some and worthless to others, but I have it in spades.
 
Jjgrow420

Jjgrow420

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
The goal remains, to bring American mass violence stats in line with the civilized world. I see only one real way to do that: break the NRA which is now the Church of Firepower, and stop selling arms made to shoot many people quickly.

Note that I’m not advocating confiscation. However registry of assault weapons now in private hands would be a good idea. Folks will be more careful with their pew-pew if compulsory registry makes it easy to find and sue those whose arms ended up
used in a crime.
Click to expand...
A gun is made to fire a projectile. The person operating the firearm chooses what that projectile hits. Lay a gun on the table, it will never hurt a single person. Put that gun in a dangerous or unstable persons hands and it is now a weapon just like a knife or a baseball bat etc.
Carrying a knife, you could stab people but with throwing knives you can stab more people from further away. Ban throwing knives and leave reg knives legal so only some people will get stabbed? Well LESS people so it's ok then?
 
Tolerance Break

Tolerance Break

Well-Known Member
Jjgrow420 said:
A gun is made to fire a projectile. The person operating the firearm chooses what that projectile hits. Lay a gun on the table, it will never hurt a single person. Put that gun in a dangerous or unstable persons hands and it is now a weapon just like a knife or a baseball bat etc.
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Devils advocate...
Alternatively, a bat or a knife has many other purposes. A guns explicit purpose is to kill, which is why the founders believed it should be a right of the people to own them, with absolutely the best intentions, and zero idea that eventually guns would be capable of firing more shots in a minute than the guns of their time could fire in a day, with a much higher accuracy.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Jjgrow420 said:
A gun is made to fire a projectile. The person operating the firearm chooses what that projectile hits. Lay a gun on the table, it will never hurt a single person. Put that gun in a dangerous or unstable persons hands and it is now a weapon just like a knife or a baseball bat etc.
Carrying a knife, you could stab people but with throwing knives you can stab more people from further away. Ban throwing knives and leave reg knives legal so only some people will get stabbed? Well LESS people so it's ok then?
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The numbers don’t lie. US has hundreds of mass shootings this year alone. The common element is a gun or guns. Less guns = less innocents shot.
 
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