gun law reform... please!

canndo said:

Hemlock, if there is any legal path to your weapons, they can be easily gotten, I don't confuse you with anyone else, but I have made this argument before. If there is any trace, I assure you that you will surrender your weapons and your friendd's weapons as well. The fact that I am neither young nor naive is what has me say what I do. I urge you to respect the power of your government where it intersects with your right to keep and bear. Unless you live in the woods somewhere without need for even the basics, you will surrender your weapons - this is not a John Wayne movie this is real modern life.

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Look at what happened to Randy Weaver

canndo said:

God how the gun toters long for this scenario, they thrive on even the exotic and adventurous and self righteous prospect of a CIVIL WAR! The reality of it is that we already have seen that militia and military will do as they are told by their officers, up to and including shooting you, especially if you are defending yourself with a weapon. Those who refuse will be quickly punished. Do yourself a favor and don't count on your brothers in the military.

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Actually, canndo, I see another way it could go down.
Let's suppose that (barring a martial law situation, in which case all bets are off) the Federal Government issues a recall of a class of firearm. (Fifties and what the media mislabel "assault weapons" come to mind.) What I suspect we'll see then is a grass-roots campaign to "just say no", with most of the affected gun owners participating. The friction will be heavily journalized, of course.

At that point the confiscation drive will have been pushed into transparency, debate, appeal.
Now if SCOTUS rules that the recall is constitutional, the huge majority who don't have the wish to defy unto either death or exile ... will have to buckle under, and wait until a new leadership has been voted in. Or otherwise installed.

I, for one, neither cultivate nor see good in the armed showdown scenario. cn

canndo said:

I often run into this sort of question. In that I point out the fact that no armed revolution is apt to suceed and that if our government really wanted to take our guns away they could do so without sending a single officer out onto the street, it is believed that I don't support the individual ownership of firearms.




This is commonly because of a particular mindset - one that i have been pointing out on this site for a month or so. Now I am talking over your shoulder so don't take any of this personally. conservatives cannot adjust their ideology and belief system to comport with reality and that is why they cannot see how I can be a gun advocate and still say the things I do about the futility of guns alone protecting your rights and more particularly your 2nd amendment rights.

You will never be able to protect your rights with your firearms.

so many actually believe that they need no other rights in order to protect their liberty to keep and bear. This is patently false.

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OK, I decided that if believing that Armageddon was coming soon made all the jesus freaks so happy then I could sanely believe that just maybe all the y2k fears could still happen and immobilize all the fancy weapons and computers and that maybe finally when the pigs realize they are pigs for $ not honor enough will revolt... it is a lot easier to believe in than a space daddy that's for sure

Aspirin causes death. Cannabis doesn't. Aspirin causes stomach bleeding and ulcers. Cannabis doesn't. Taking aspirin daily is highly unrecommended. Using cannabis daily and saturating your cells with it boosts your immune system, helps anxiety and is an anti fungal. Cannabis does not harm a male adolescents brain development any study that disputes me was by the lying drug warriors and did not control for alcohol and other drug abuse. Other credible studies point to it being good a nuero protectant or something of the sort but studies show it reverses the affects of binge drinking -

Moses Mobetta said:

Look at what happened to Randy Weaver

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No way the Ruby Ridge dude was a Green fucking Beret? I can't rep you just yet but shows how much respect serving your country gets you from your country~!

cannabineer said:

Actually, canndo, I see another way it could go down.
Let's suppose that (barring a martial law situation, in which case all bets are off) the Federal Government issues a recall of a class of firearm. (Fifties and what the media mislabel "assault weapons" come to mind.) What I suspect we'll see then is a grass-roots campaign to "just say no", with most of the affected gun owners participating. The friction will be heavily journalized, of course.

At that point the confiscation drive will have been pushed into transparency, debate, appeal.
Now if SCOTUS rules that the recall is constitutional, the huge majority who don't have the wish to defy unto either death or exile ... will have to buckle under, and wait until a new leadership has been voted in. Or otherwise installed.

I, for one, neither cultivate nor see good in the armed showdown scenario. cn

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And is it just liberal gossip that because of the Obama's coming for yer guns scare that the true gun enthusiast stocked the fuck up so much that the cost skyrocketed and now are traded like gold and high priced art?

Mr Neutron said:

Well, I've been out of the game for a couple years, so I can't argue your point but I find it hard to believe that is the case with sales of personal firearms.

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in california "Transferring" a weapon without going through a licensed gun dealer,, all the forms and all the waiting periods is a felony punishable by 2 years in slam and a $15000 fine.

i cant even give my nephew a new gun for yule without going through a gun dealer for the "Transfer"

cannabineer said:

Actually, canndo, I see another way it could go down.
Let's suppose that (barring a martial law situation, in which case all bets are off) the Federal Government issues a recall of a class of firearm. (Fifties and what the media mislabel "assault weapons" come to mind.) What I suspect we'll see then is a grass-roots campaign to "just say no", with most of the affected gun owners participating. The friction will be heavily journalized, of course.

At that point the confiscation drive will have been pushed into transparency, debate, appeal.
Now if SCOTUS rules that the recall is constitutional, the huge majority who don't have the wish to defy unto either death or exile ... will have to buckle under, and wait until a new leadership has been voted in. Or otherwise installed.

I, for one, neither cultivate nor see good in the armed showdown scenario. cn

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Here is the point I try to make with the gun toters, you made most of it but the angle here is that if this "surrender" does nothappens silently, if it is slow and sure, if it is a step by step encroachment it will never see the light of day. Sure, obviously "wacko" groups will be saying what they have always said and will be ignored as they always are "they are coming for our guns" and it will be the little boy who cried wolf all over again (I remind you that in the end, that little boy got eaten).

Now what would keep it from happening? every man out in his front yard waiving his shotgun around and screaming? nope, because only with our 1st amendment rights will they be able to protect themselves and enlist the many who don't give a damn if they have guns or not but believe in the constitution.

budlover13 said:

Ummm, without paperwork (as in grandfathered guns), it's cash and carry.

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and if you get caught driving home with it they will run it's transfer record and then you are up against the wall spreadin em and getting shackled.

the only way to avoid the forms and waiting periods and the "Totally Not Registration" gun registration is to own used guns and declare under oath you had them before the law came into effect. if your gun has a serial number that occurs after the law went into effect then you will be caught,, and charged with perjury as well, or maybe youll get declared a gun-runner (only obama's boys can do that) and then you'll be buns up kneelin', while Bubba is wheelin' and dealin'.

deprave said:

while it is complete bullshit and I totally agree....it is not as bad as you think and still very easy to buy guns legally using that exact form (and the other miriad of forms and visits to the sherrif). I have done it myself its really not THAT bad.

It most certainly does not keep guns out of the hands of criminals and its fucking retarded justification to steal money from good people, don't get me wrong but its not THAT bad.

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it is stealth registration. registration serves only one purpose, to assist in confiscation.

Dr Kynes said:

it is stealth registration. registration serves only one purpose, to assist in confiscation.

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Thank you sir.

BA142 said:

I'm pretty liberal on social issues but banning guns is like banning drugs. There will always be a black market.

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Y so Racist? dont you know the new term is Grey Market?

canndo said:

Actually I believe the case involved a mother and her children having been taken by an estranged husband. The Mom insisted that the police were responsible for the safety of the Children because they promised that the father who had threatened some act of violence would remain in jail yet was released.

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the case im talking about resulted in a an opinion from the supreme court with the effect that cops are not required to deal with any crime, or defend any citizen's safety, they are only responsible for the safety of "society as a whole"

canndo said:

I don't believe in the term. in most situations there is one person that is closer to being right and one person that is closer to being wrong. Agreeing to disagree is simply this: "well I am going to believe what I do regardless of what evidence, fact or logic you put before me" . This is akin to "I will believe that to my grave" or "You will never convince me otherwise". These statements are not the sentiments of people who are truely interested in reality.

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in matters of opinion your statement can only mean nobody can disagree,, we must all achieve consensus and the compromise view is accepted as truth. it doesnt work that way.

some people like original recipe, others prefer extra crispy,, the only way to resolve this is everyone eats unflavoured pablum,, or textured soy protein. fuck that, original Recipe is the only way,, as ordained by the Great Colonel.

Colonel Sanders preserves!
Colonel Sanders protects!
Abhor the Extra Crispy!
Purge the Unclean!

Bring forth the Holy Inquisitors! Destroy all those who do not accept His sacred Gravy with all their Holy Sides and Biscuits!!

canndo said:

God how the gun toters long for this scenario, they thrive on even the exotic and adventurous and self righteous prospect of a CIVIL WAR! The reality of it is that we already have seen that militia and military will do as they are told by their officers, up to and including shooting you, especially if you are defending yourself with a weapon. Those who refuse will be quickly punished. Do yourself a favor and don't count on your brothers in the military.

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I would never wish to fight my own govt. you lefties think you got us pegged.

I been in the shit canndo I have a combat action ribbon and was in the USMC infantry.

And I know enough to know this canndo, you know not what you speak of.

canndo said:

They didn't defend their 2nd amendment rights by themselves against their own government. Big difference.

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actually they did.

and so did the french revolutionaries (with mixed results,, lol Robespierre)

and so did the iranian revolutionaries

and the cubanos

and the algerians

and the boers

ghandi took a different tactic, but he was exceptional

the russian revolution also

the spanish revolution.

the "arab spring" which is currently reducing to a puddle of piss

revolutions work. only the US revolution ever worked in a way that allowed the revolutionaries to die of old age in a free and (somewhat) peaceful country.

your premise fails.

canndo said:

God how the gun toters long for this scenario, they thrive on even the exotic and adventurous and self righteous prospect of a CIVIL WAR! The reality of it is that we already have seen that militia and military will do as they are told by their officers, up to and including shooting you, especially if you are defending yourself with a weapon. Those who refuse will be quickly punished. Do yourself a favor and don't count on your brothers in the military.

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meanwhile people like you believe we simply should submit, for in submission we might find a little comfort. your view may hold sway in the salons and parlours that you frequent, but in the beer halls road houses and barn burnin hoedowns i attend your view is held in contempt.

when it comes down to cases,, if the US congress and Barry Seotoro launch the initiative that has been so long a dream for the "progressives' and he tells the military on law enforcement agencies to go round up guns, he will face a revolution and eventually get the Mussolini treatment when the first person says NO and a firefight ensues.

Waco and Ruby Ridge were footnotes in YOUR history but they account for whole volumes in the history of those of us who refuse to submit to tyranny. you may smugly believe that you can coerce others as easily as you yourself were, but you will be sorely mistaken. most of the guns in this country may be held by the military and the "lawer infercement offisers" who do the bidding of whever signs their checks, but the guns that count are held by persons unknown in locations which are secret. even the ultra leftists cant convince themselves that they will ever know how many guns are in this country, or who has them. they cant even stop cocaine from coming into this country,, and you think they can stop me from getting more weapons than i already have, or even stop me from MAKING MORE? shit son, i could make weapons with ease in my garage shop, and as for explosives, i can and have made the necessary explosives to clear oak stumps, crack stones for building and excavate solid rock. it ainnt that hard, even with my limited and entirely ad hoc knowledge of explosives and chemistry. i shudder to think what cannabineer might concoct in his winter den under the ice.

your cause is hopeless, which is why the progressives and their fellow trravellers are trying to slowly erode our rights and our willingness to defend them BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

Dr Kynes said:

.....or maybe youll get declared a gun-runner (only obama's boys can do that.......

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sweet, maybe i'll end up in Obama's cabinet like Eric Holder if i do that and help kill a fellow American.

canndo said:

What you are saying makes little sense, if you cannot defend your rights with a weapon then you are wise to defend it in other ways. demanding that you be able to keep your weapon by using it in a situation whereby you will surely lose it anyway makes little sense. I think it best that we use the rights we have to protect the other ones. It is far easier to protect your 2nd with your first than your first with your ssecond. but it is romantic to imagine otherwise.

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you're failing to understand the value difference. You don't value the right to keep and bear arms the same way the man who values it more than his own life. And your presenting an incomplete picture with your rendition: "I think it best we use the rights we have to protect the other ones"...but what "other ones"? the rights we don't have? by definition you can't defend something you do not possess. furthermore, its only your conjecture that it is easier to protect the right to keep and bear arms by exercising the right to freedom of expression, assembly, the press, and religion. If i may interpret what you are attempting: It is best to exercise all of our rights to protect our freedom and ensure a just and peaceful society. I hate to put words in your mouth but if this is what you're saying, then I think we could all agree it is prudent.
Be easy

MellowFarmer said:

And is it just liberal gossip that because of the Obama's coming for yer guns scare that the true gun enthusiast stocked the fuck up so much that the cost skyrocketed and now are traded like gold and high priced art?

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It allowed me to sell a few at good prices! cn

canndo said:

Here is the point I try to make with the gun toters, you made most of it but the angle here is that if this "surrender" does nothappens silently, if it is slow and sure, if it is a step by step encroachment it will never see the light of day. Sure, obviously "wacko" groups will be saying what they have always said and will be ignored as they always are "they are coming for our guns" and it will be the little boy who cried wolf all over again (I remind you that in the end, that little boy got eaten).

Now what would keep it from happening? every man out in his front yard waiving his shotgun around and screaming? nope, because only with our 1st amendment rights will they be able to protect themselves and enlist the many who don't give a damn if they have guns or not but believe in the constitution.

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I might have kinda sorta addressed it. The one thing that we have not had (barring martial law again, e.g. Katrina) is an actual recall. That would set a precedent that would definitely pop up into the radar. Sure, the wolf-criers will have emptied their magazine by then, so to speak. But many many gun owners are not represented by the squawkers.
And at that pint imo, you've got it right: the first will come to the aid of the second.

Unless the antigun forces are clever enough to have it all stitched up, get the fix in in time for that first recall. I consider that a lesser possibility. cn