High power COB -vs- hps vertical shoot out

WWShadow

WWShadow

Well-Known Member
When you hang a bare 1k bulb vertical, it puts out the same amount of light all the way around the bulb. For the cobs to work in the exact same manner, You would need all of the cobs facing the same way.
I may not have stated that quite right but if you re-examine what you have going you may find a better way to utilize your COBs.
You have a pretty nice set up though, too bad that design didn't work as hoped.

Also like ttystikk said, other factors may have played a part also. You could spend a lot of time and money looking for a workable solution.

Best of luck to you man!
 
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getsoutalive

Well-Known Member
WWS, you are correct. COBs just can't compete vertically. Said this two weeks ago up thread and got yelled at for all kinds of crap that I never said. COBs are just now passing HPS in a horizontal hood setup. The bare vertically hung HPS is far more efficient than horizontal mounting in a hood. COBs with 110 degree light output are not well suited to a design that requires light in a 360 pattern..
 
chuck estevez

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
Man, I am on double retarded restriction right now, but I took the hour to get in here so i could post this one thing.
@ttystick, I said it before, you are so heavily invested in these lights, you can't see the forest thru the trees. the last thread they locked me out of, there was a dude who showed his johnson grown buds and I told him they looked like shit. He said he was going to post a pic after it dried, notice that NEVER happened. LEDs suck bro, bottom line.
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
getsoutalive said:
WWS, you are correct. COBs just can't compete vertically. Said this two weeks ago up thread and got yelled at for all kinds of crap that I never said. COBs are just now passing HPS in a horizontal hood setup. The bare vertically hung HPS is far more efficient than horizontal mounting in a hood. COBs with 110 degree light output are not well suited to a design that requires light in a 360 pattern..
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I don't know why they gave you so much shit, you where right........bare bulb hid is still really hard to beat in a vert set up

subbed to this thread and never got any updates until chucky troll posted it

still nice attempt by the op............any pics of the huge? difference in the final product/weight?????
 
sixstring2112

sixstring2112

Well-Known Member
legallyflying said:
Time will tell, but it certainly seems like the hps buds are larger and somehow slightly more developed.

I think I do need to pick another HPS reference plant however. The one we picked has 3 bare bulbs and one bulb with a reflector (because it is the bulb on the edge of the system). Meaning, that plant is getting a little more than 1k worth of light.
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im confused on this post,you are using a plant with 4 hid around it to compare to 800watts of cob on another plant same size? is the cob plant in the center of the room getting cross lighting like the rest of the plants? man some updated pics would be nice,you got trolls spamming the liink to this journal in the led section like its the best comparision out there and i just dont see it with the limited pics.there is a small learning curve to feeding led plants,they dont like all the usual tactics that work on hid grown plants.ime the plants under led will take up alot more mag and even nitrogen needs to be higher in the first few weeks of 12/12. its a sweet looking cob tunnel you built,too bad its not up to snuff for ya.
 
tstick

tstick

Well-Known Member
It might be cool to try mono arrays equipped with some tight-angle lenses, (as opposed to COB), for side lighting -something like some Apache tech panels hung on-end, for example. That way, you could get a lot more close-distribution of light to the sides. With most COBs, you have to have them at specific distances to get the light to spread out enough to get the coverage -otherwise, they distribute light more like a flashlight does.

To me, the best application for soft-driven, multiple-emitter COB fixtures, is in a scrog. And if you're going with a vertical style grow, then you can take the best advantage of the way a bare bulb distributes photons to get the most efficiency from it.

I wonder what the outcome would be in a "growing contest" between a bare-bulb-HID vertical grow and a soft-driven, multiple COB scrog -??? In other words, pit the best applications of each type of lighting approach against each other and see which produces the best end results...and not just in terms of yield, alone. Also test for potency and terpene levels, too.

Personally, after some limited experimentation with COBs, I'm now considering a LEC system and also looking at going back and getting another mono-array type of fixture, too...hopefully when (and if) Apache Tech ever lowers their prices! ;)

I don't care about efficiency/charts/numbers at all. My grows are too small for that to ever be a real factor...just sayin' :)
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
WWShadow said:
When you hang a bare 1k bulb vertical, it puts out the same amount of light all the way around the bulb. For the cobs to work in the exact same manner, You would need all of the cobs facing the same way.
I may not have stated that quite right but if you re-examine what you have going you may find a better way to utilize your COBs.
You have a pretty nice set up though, too bad that design didn't work as hoped.

Also like ttystikk said, other factors may have played a part also. You could spend a lot of time and money looking for a workable solution.

Best of luck to you man!
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THIS.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
tstick said:
It might be cool to try mono arrays equipped with some tight-angle lenses, (as opposed to COB), for side lighting -something like some Apache tech panels hung on-end, for example. That way, you could get a lot more close-distribution of light to the sides. With most COBs, you have to have them at specific distances to get the light to spread out enough to get the coverage -otherwise, they distribute light more like a flashlight does.

To me, the best application for soft-driven, multiple-emitter COB fixtures, is in a scrog. And if you're going with a vertical style grow, then you can take the best advantage of the way a bare bulb distributes photons to get the most efficiency from it.

I wonder what the outcome would be in a "growing contest" between a bare-bulb-HID vertical grow and a soft-driven, multiple COB scrog -??? In other words, pit the best applications of each type of lighting approach against each other and see which produces the best end results...and not just in terms of yield, alone. Also test for potency and terpene levels, too.

Personally, after some limited experimentation with COBs, I'm now considering a LEC system and also looking at going back and getting another mono-array type of fixture, too...hopefully when (and if) Apache Tech ever lowers their prices! ;)

I don't care about efficiency/charts/numbers at all. My grows are too small for that to ever be a real factor...just sayin' :)
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I'm doing exactly this.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
chuck estevez said:
Man, I am on double retarded restriction right now, but I took the hour to get in here so i could post this one thing.
@ttystick, I said it before, you are so heavily invested in these lights, you can't see the forest thru the trees. the last thread they locked me out of, there was a dude who showed his johnson grown buds and I told him they looked like shit. He said he was going to post a pic after it dried, notice that NEVER happened. LEDs suck bro, bottom line.
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Figured they fucked with your account. Absurd considering the douchebag trolls in the LED forum. As for Johnson lighting: "We are beyond valid arguments" :lol:

@ttystick: now you can see what your mindless parroting of led propaganda causes... good people wasting time and money. The outcome of this thread was obvious to me after reading the fourth word in this thread.
 
REALSTYLES

REALSTYLES

Well-Known Member
chuck estevez said:
Man, I am on double retarded restriction right now, but I took the hour to get in here so i could post this one thing.
@ttystick, I said it before, you are so heavily invested in these lights, you can't see the forest thru the trees. the last thread they locked me out of, there was a dude who showed his johnson grown buds and I told him they looked like shit. He said he was going to post a pic after it dried, notice that NEVER happened. LEDs suck bro, bottom line.
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Your just mad you can't grow with them. I get a lb from 400watt panel here's a pic from my last harvest

This is one plant 8oz when it dried

SAM_1409.JPG

SAM_1423.JPG

SAM_1415.JPG

Grown under 750watts 4 plants in a 4x4 tent and lets see your pics
 
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getsoutalive

Well-Known Member
COBs obviously kick ass.

However, the right tool for the right job, always.

For vert, COB is the wrong tool. The radiation pattern alone should make that obvious.

For those that grow horizontal and have heat problems with HID, COBs are a no brainer, just as bare bulb HID is for vert.

I prefer COBs myself. Passive cooled individual pendants on rails and pulleys that can be easily moved exactly where they are most needed across the canopy. No optics necessary. 110 degrees offers excellent cross lighting between COBs. Want to talk about uniform lighting edge to edge? I believe that you can replace lb for lb, HID with COBs at 60-70% of previous watts depending on efficiency levels chosen for the chips.

No single point source 3 feet off center of the canopy that requires massive airflow and may not even be useable in the hotter months, sends 50% of its output in the wrong direction and has horrible spectrum.
 
Alienwidow

Alienwidow

Well-Known Member
Sorry to see your latest adventure didnt work out @legallyflying
I figured it wouldnt but damn that would have been nice to save that extra money. To everyone else reading this thread, ive seen his bud first hand and its huge and gorgeous. That setup utilizes almost every bud on the plant turning them all into trophy buds. I still would like to drink a couple beers with ya andgo through some of the specifics of the system...after im done trimming :lol:
 
sixstring2112

sixstring2112

Well-Known Member
OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:
they are comparing 4000 watts to 800 cob?

thats 20% led wattage..its seemed not like the fair way to go for real test

..nice photos

i got my first HID in 1979..i still use em..i like cobs too....
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i dont even think its 800w based on the pics and first post.3 cobs per side x 4 sides is 12 x 50w (if thats what they are driven @) is only 600w cob.this is why im totally confused on this whole comparision topic. pic of the driver is 700ma so some things are not adding up,but the room itself looks nice.
 
Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
Figured they fucked with your account. Absurd considering the douchebag trolls in the LED forum. As for Johnson lighting: "We are beyond valid arguments" :lol:

@ttystick: now you can see what your mindless parroting of led propaganda causes... good people wasting time and money. The outcome of this thread was obvious to me after reading the fourth word in this thread.
Click to expand...

Still your argument was against horizontal lighting which is at a 20+% disadvantage. Also you can't expect one 400 watt vert fixture against a 1000 watt vert bulb ? Seriously? I never advocated that cobs where even remotely great for vert trees. If they where scrogged and flat plane sure. Vertical trees of course needs an omnidirectional light source. Good luck to you guys. I'm not here to argue conjecture. Believe what you will. I say stick with hid till you die. Don't you dare use any form of LED as you say it's a done tech. In the meantime sorry you tried to stretch ~1000 ppf of cree cobs into a 1750 ppf of hps lighting.


Also upon further review it's 3 cobs per side with no optics? Good God 50% of the light isn't even hitting the plant.
 
Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
legallyflying said:
I 1 I'll try and upload pictures today. But for a concise summary of the competition:

For sale: 12 cree COB chips, ballasts and heat sinks.

I really wanted it to work, so did my partner, but using almost the same wattage the LED are getting trounced.
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Please give details of the cobs and drivers.
 
jafro daweedhound

jafro daweedhound

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
You can ask me all you want, but I won't have any answers for at least another month. Not every solution works in every situation, every time. Sometimes- shit, most of the time- you learn more from things NOT working as expected!
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Being brave enough to try new things is what sets some apart from the crowd. Trying new things will bring about innovation and take the industry to new heights.
 
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