If they come for your guns, do you have a responsibility to fight?

noxiously said:

What gun nuts don't realize is that you will never in your life have a need to use more than 10 rounds. Ok, maybe you go to the range and want to target practice and don't feel like having to reload after ten shots, well, stop being lazy. An intruder won't stick around long enough to find out if you have a ten round mag or a 10 round mag once they hear that first shot. Stop being scared.

Click to expand...

st0wandgrow said:

noxiously, I agree with you for the most part. I too don't see any practical need for the average citizen to own an assault rifle and a 100 round magazine. BUT, it isn't a s clear cut as it may seem at first glance.

Lets say the assault weapon ban and ban on large capacity magazines goes in to effect. What about all of the assault rifles and large capacity magazines already out there? Do we send the brown suits around door to door to collect them, and if so how do you think that will go over? Is that even feasible? Let's take this a step further, and pretend the door to door campaign is a success. What's stopping these types of weapons from being smuggled in through our very porous borders?

Banning weapons seems impractical to me. As a society we have embraced the right to bear arms, and as such it would be next to impossible to implement any type of weapons ban. I'm hoping to see some type of system implemented where we can easily identify who is allowed to have a gun (any gun), and who isn't. We then would need to make the penalties very stiff for anyone caught with a gun that isn't supposed to have one.

I don't think we can EVER prevent tragedies like Sandy Hook from happening. If someone is nutty enough to do something like that, then no amount of legislation will be able to prevent it. What we may have better luck in preventing is the nickle and dime thugs who think they're bad ass carrying around a stolen pistol. If they knew they would face a mandatory minimum 10, 15, or 20 year sentence for JUST being caught with a gun, it may deter some from going that route, and perhaps make our inner cities a little safer.

It's a very complex issue, imo.

Click to expand...

• The government wants to start giving more funds to the ATF and other departments to help stop the flow of illegal weapons coming in through our borders.​
  
  
  
  

Click to expand...

noxiously said:

O.K., here we go, I finally got an intelligent response. I do agree that we can never fully prevent tragedies like Sandy Hook. I do agree that if someone tries hard enough they will be able to get illegal weapons.

You hit on a very important topic about the assault weapons and large capacity magazines that are already on the street. That is an even bigger issue than putting a ban on future sales of these items. I personally believe that if you legally purchased those weapons, and large capacity magazines then you should be allowed to have them. I know how it sounds, it makes me sound like a hypocrite right. Well, the reason I say that is because if is not the gun owners fault. They went and purchased these items while they were legal, nothing wrong with that. If it's legal then hey, can't do anything about it. You can't just go in an take someones gun that they legally purchased, the 2nd amendment protects you from that. I don't know the answer as to how do you get them off the streets. Impose very harsh penalties for those who illegally sell those weapons to other people after an assault rifle ban is established. Start up a program to buy those guns back. It's a voluntary program and it pays a fair market price for them...I know some will say that's extra spending, but how many people do you really think will turn those guns in, so it really wouldn't cost much.

The government wants to start giving more funds to the ATF and other departments to help stop the flow of illegal weapons coming in through our borders. It's not an end all be all type of deal here. All they are doing is just trying to do something that may be productive. It may only save the lives of a few people, but to those family members it will be well worth it. All I'm saying is that they are not coming to take our guns like those wack job gun nuts think they are. They are not infringing on our rights to bear arms. They want to twist everything that Obama is doing and saying and make it out to be some evil dictator. Stop all the nonsense and lets try to come up with some solutions that could help our problems instead of just crying about someone trying to help.

That wasn't directed towards you Stow

Click to expand...

zambonic said:

Do you think the German people saw Hitler as a Tyrant at first? How about the Russians w/ Stalin? Or are you one of those people that say's this is America, that can't ever happen here. Lets just say that Obama is not a tyranical dictator, but what about the next, president... see where I am going with this? The second amendment was put in place as a check and balance system, giving the people the power. If you choose to not own a (so called) assualt weapon, that is your choice. But please do not try to tell law abiding citizens what they should not be able to purchase with their hard earned money.

noxiously said:

Maybe I don't see Obama as this Hitler/Stalin Tyrant that these right wing crack jobs see him as.

Click to expand...

LMAO, really, another one of those Obama = Hitler/Stalin arguments. Are you serious? I can break it down to you if need be, but yes, this is America and that would never happen here. If you didn't live in a broke down school bus out in the woods and worship Chuck Norris and Clint Eastwood maybe you could see that.

Nevermind I'll just tell you why it would never happen here.

America is a super power in the world. We have many many allies. Our economy directly effects the economy of pretty much every nation in the world in a large way. If the government were to even turn on the citizens it would cause our economy to crash, and I'm not talking about what we just went through, or even talking about the great depression. The American dollar would have no value what so-ever. Americas allies would step in before it would even get started to prevent a world economic melt down. The reason these things happen in third world countries is because they have no value in the world economy, so the super powers that be don't give two shits about them or what happens there. That is why the government would never try such a thing. Even if they wanted to, they know they couldn't do it because what would the value be for them? All they would be ruling is a country that is in shambles, run a country that none of our allies would trade with.

That's like a mentally healthy person thinking about committing suicide, yea it may cross their mind but they know it would only cause bigger problems that you won't be able to come back from. Too bad you probably won't understand this.

Click to expand...

st0wandgrow said:

Seems reasonable to me ..... but reason is left at the door most times when this topic comes up.

Click to expand...

NLXSK1 said:

ROFLMAO!!!

They just spent millions helping the flow of illegal weapons.

It is like asking a drunk to guard the liquor cabinet...

You have wayyyyy too much faith in the government son...

Click to expand...

noxiously said:

And how did they just spend millions helping the flow of illegal weapons? You have wayyyy to much faith in your own intelligence small fry.

Click to expand...

noxiously said:

100% true. Reason always goes out the door when talking about gun control. No, guns should never be banned, I'm not saying that. I love my guns too much to just hand them over, which they would never try that anyway. But also, we need to come to some kind of middle ground to try and prevent these things from happening again. If you can't meet in the middle then nothing gets done about it, and that's what the NRA and all of it's wacko followers are trying to do. It's a stand off, you cry long enough and hard enough to distract people from the real problem until we forget the real problem and nothing gets done about it.

Click to expand...

noxiously said:

zambonic said:

Do you think the German people saw Hitler as a Tyrant at first? How about the Russians w/ Stalin? Or are you one of those people that say's this is America, that can't ever happen here. Lets just say that Obama is not a tyranical dictator, but what about the next, president... see where I am going with this? The second amendment was put in place as a check and balance system, giving the people the power. If you choose to not own a (so called) assualt weapon, that is your choice. But please do not try to tell law abiding citizens what they should not be able to purchase with their hard earned money.






LMAO, really, another one of those Obama = Hitler/Stalin arguments. Are you serious? I can break it down to you if need be, but yes, this is America and that would never happen here. If you didn't live in a broke down school bus out in the woods and worship Chuck Norris and Clint Eastwood maybe you could see that.

Nevermind I'll just tell you why it would never happen here.

America is a super power in the world. We have many many allies. Our economy directly effects the economy of pretty much every nation in the world in a large way. If the government were to even turn on the citizens it would cause our economy to crash, and I'm not talking about what we just went through, or even talking about the great depression. The American dollar would have no value what so-ever. Americas allies would step in before it would even get started to prevent a world economic melt down. The reason these things happen in third world countries is because they have no value in the world economy, so the super powers that be don't give two shits about them or what happens there. That is why the government would never try such a thing. Even if they wanted to, they know they couldn't do it because what would the value be for them? All they would be ruling is a country that is in shambles, run a country that none of our allies would trade with.

That's like a mentally healthy person thinking about committing suicide, yea it may cross their mind but they know it would only cause bigger problems that you won't be able to come back from. Too bad you probably won't understand this.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

zambonic said:

I should be asking you... are you serious? So Germany and Russia were third world countries? Maybe you should get out of your townhouse in suburbia and quit worshiping your left wing pundints on CNBC. Did I in any way compare Obama to Hitler/Stalin. See this is what you lefty's try to do.. you were the first to bring Hitler and Stalin into the fray. Then you try to twist peoples words to fit your agenda. Nice try, the point still being we have this thing called the second amendment which cleary states that it shall not be infringed upon. I am sorry that these people we call founding fathers out smarted folks like you a long time ago. Get over it.

Click to expand...

UncleBuck said:

awwwwww, the little baby broke out the crayons! how cute!

i have crayons too!

better tell the SCOTUS about your infringement argument, even the conservative judges disagree with you and agree on infringements you crayon loving, temper tantrum throwing child!
[/B]

Click to expand...

zambonic said:

Awww look Uncle Dick is back..... should you not be at the little kids table. This conversation is for adults. So back ya go!!

Click to expand...

NLXSK1 said:

Fast and Furious....

Click to expand...

Kervork said:

Aww shit, he's back.

Anyway, one of the reasons someone needs a rifle that will accept 20, 30 round clips.

Suppression fire. If you are attempting to keep someone pinned down and immobile so your buddy can come around on his flank you tend to use up a lot of ammo. Without this capability, you wind up just sitting and shooting at each other endlessly.

I've had to hunt down bad people in the dark and I'm very glad I had an AR15 with 30 round mags at the time. When you actually use a gun for defense, you learn very quickly that there is no gun too big and no magazine which holds as many bullets as you would like.

If you read through many of the reports on police shootings, it is not uncommon to see 30, 50, 90 rounds fired while suspects are hit only several times.

All you people saying "I'd drop him with the first shot" are full of bullshit. Accuracy goes to shit under stress and hitting a moving human who is possibly firing at you is a hell of a lot harder than you think.

Click to expand...

zambonic said:

I should be asking you... are you serious? So Germany and Russia were third world countries? Maybe you should get out of your townhouse in suburbia and quit worshiping your left wing pundints on CNBC. Did I in any way compare Obama to Hitler/Stalin. See this is what you lefty's try to do.. you were the first to bring Hitler and Stalin into the fray. Then you try to twist peoples words to fit your agenda. Nice try, the point still being we have this thing called the second amendment which cleary states that it shall not be infringed upon. I am sorry that these people we call founding fathers out smarted folks like you a long time ago. Get over it.


Well, just to let you know, the lefties aren't the ones who brought up the comparison to Hitler/Stalin. It was all over Fox News for the past month. That's all Rush, Drudge, Coultier, O'Reilly, and the rest of the wacko's have been saying. They are the ones calling him "King Obama", "Obama the Tyrant" and so forth. I don't just watch CNBC or MSNBC. What I do in this day and age, since Fox is totally on the right and MSNBC/CNBC is totally on the left you can't trust the info you get from either side because they will distort the facts to help their own cause. I watch Fox, MSNBC, CNBC, CNN, Local News, as well as read several different National News papers and I piece all that info together and find research it some more before making a call on it.

As for living in the suburbs, you got me all wrong on that one, lol. Never lived in the suburbs, never will. Those people, to me, are nothing more than mice who are lost in the rat race. Most of them I should have said, not all of them. Most of them are fake. I don't like to associate with people like that...too stuck up...too self centered, and too judgmental. I was born in the inner city at a hospital that no longer exists because of how bad they ran things. I lived in the "hood" until I was 6, then moved out to the country until I was 11. Moved back to the "hood" until I was 19 and moved back to the country for 2 years. Came right back to the "hood" and been here since 2001. Lets see how many of you can guess my age. So for most of my life I lived in the bad part of town, and only plan on moving out of the bad part of town when I get enough money saved up to buy some land out in the country because I don't want my son growing up in the same environment. I went to public schools that had plenty of students who walked around with razors in their mouth so they could conceal them, I'm sure some of you remember those days. I've had my back sliced up by one of those razors too back when I was in the 9th grade, so don't try to downplay my history or what I've done, seen, and been through. Out of all the years living like this I have never feared someone busting down my door with an assault rifle and a high capacity mag. I live my life the way I want to, atleast for the most part. I can look out my front window and count atleast 8 houses that are boarded up. I can also look out my window and see nothing but HUD houses and Section 8 housing going in each direction of my house. Hell, I have 3 sexual predators living on my street as it is right now, and a ton more within a mile radius....the bad part is there is an elementary school down at the end of my road, you can walk into the street and see it and we still have registered sex offenders living that close to the school. So when it comes to guns, gun violence, drugs, drug dealers, murders, burglars and home invaders I've seen my fair share. So with that being said I do believe I know a little something about this topic just from growing up around these types of people and seeing what they are capable of doing, what they will do, and what they won't do. Like I said before, when you take a shot at someone who breaks into your house they will not stick around long enough to find out if you have 100 round mags or 10 round mags.

Click to expand...

Doer said:

Well, that was the Jefferson idea, maybe. He mused about it. And Checks and Balance be USA.

But, the way I see it is more simple. In the day of the Founders. A horse and/or a coastal cutter was the only communication. They didn't have to foresee the fragile communication age. They knew fragile in all forms.

But, today, our comms are very fragile. France could EMP us within 5 mins. They have sub patrols off our coast constantly.

So, the 2nd is about protecting our Constitution. If it's for the Loons or the French, we keep and bare arms.

Click to expand...