LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow
- Thread starter pr0fesseur
- Start date
AltarNation
Well-Known Member
Naw, he said use some red suns in veg too, and then swap out one blue bulb for a red to offset the balance enough to trigger flowering later.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
In case anyone is interested MelloKitty managed to acquire the Quantum Triphosphor graphs and sent them to me. Thanks again MelloK
The color ranges are decent enough in the Grow bulb, almost no blue in the Bloom, both lacking in intensity, certainly not worth the premium you pay for them (MSRP is ~ $12), I saw them on line as low as $8.99, which is about what I paid, but I bought 8 of each. Comparing graphs, it appears that the aquarium bulbs are easily worth twice the price.
I have nothing to compare, as this will be my first full grow using the BB. I was very happy with my last vegg effort with the Quantums, but a heat wave right as I flipped to 12/12 turned all 4 plants into males, so I pulled them. And then along came Pr0f.
My new grow is only 2 weeks old, this time a bulb mix: 2 Quantum Grows and 2 Aqua Suns. Plants are already 3+" tall, with very thick and healthy leaf sets. The main stalks are thick and hardy. When I flip I will probably use 2 Aqua Suns and 2 Red Suns. or 1 Quantum Bloom (it does have strong green and red spike at ~ 500 & 620) and 1 Red Sun.
Viva Pr0f, and his effort to post a thread hypothesizing the probable benefits of aquarium bulbs, which are about 4xs as intense as the Quantums, which are probably comparable to any 'standard' HO bulb so not worth the premium. hth
The color ranges are decent enough in the Grow bulb, almost no blue in the Bloom, both lacking in intensity, certainly not worth the premium you pay for them (MSRP is ~ $12), I saw them on line as low as $8.99, which is about what I paid, but I bought 8 of each. Comparing graphs, it appears that the aquarium bulbs are easily worth twice the price.
I have nothing to compare, as this will be my first full grow using the BB. I was very happy with my last vegg effort with the Quantums, but a heat wave right as I flipped to 12/12 turned all 4 plants into males, so I pulled them. And then along came Pr0f.
My new grow is only 2 weeks old, this time a bulb mix: 2 Quantum Grows and 2 Aqua Suns. Plants are already 3+" tall, with very thick and healthy leaf sets. The main stalks are thick and hardy. When I flip I will probably use 2 Aqua Suns and 2 Red Suns. or 1 Quantum Bloom (it does have strong green and red spike at ~ 500 & 620) and 1 Red Sun.
Viva Pr0f, and his effort to post a thread hypothesizing the probable benefits of aquarium bulbs, which are about 4xs as intense as the Quantums, which are probably comparable to any 'standard' HO bulb so not worth the premium. hth
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
My bad, Let me rephrase that. You seem to prefer bulbs with concentrated spectrums, which you then mix side-by-side.
pr0fesseur
Well-Known Member
Makes more sense no? controlling the mix yourself allows u to customize the light to your situation and strain... i would prefer a light source "I" control rather than trying to find that one perfect bulb.
pr0fesseur
Well-Known Member
Ive already posted them a couple of times... check the begining of the thread
pr0fesseur
Well-Known Member
No red suns for veg.. theres plenty of red in the fuji purps...
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Yes and no.
The reason I bought a BB was after reading BendMCs BB T5 thread using standard bulbs. His grow was impressive. So my thinking is while the Aqua Sun / Red Sun have mixed spectrums, when used correctly, they should significantly outperform the Quantums by themselves.
So I'm thinking that mixing the Aqua Sun with the Quantum Grow bulbs ( a pretty decent grow bulb) then at flower switching to Red Suns mixed with the Quantum Blooms (very little blue, but a nice green/red spike) should be better still. Now, if I didn't already own the Quantums, I would be more inclined to mix them up as you are, but even then...
So going back to your/my question "Is it better to mix color specific bulbs, or, simply use quality aquarium blended bulbs like the AS/RS? My thought on this is: the AS/RS will do a better job of evenly spreading the light over the canopy, whereas separate wave length specific bulbs placed side-by-side less so. To me, it seems you will need to keep your lights farther from the plants to facilitate color blending. Speculative I know. I will be very interested to follow your next grow. An A/B test would be interesting, but either way, I think we are going to come out winners. And again, I thank for for the direction.
I am about to start a journal on another site that is LED crazy. My thread over there Are LEDs Misunderstood has over 11K views. My HPA + UFO 90 has over 53K views. I am now in my 5th HPA grow (feel ready for prime time), as long as I can get past transitioning the young plants from bubbler to my HPA pod (the most difficult) I'll start a journal titled HPA + T5 Using Aquarium HO Bulbs. That should shake things up over there.
hth
AltarNation
Well-Known Member
Okay, taking the above comment about no red suns in Veg into account, I think my misinterpretation must have come from the fact that I should have some red SPECTRUM, (not red suns) in my veg stage... and since I have fiji purps, that is covering that...
So my thoughts are, all things considered, I could just go with a six-bulb setup for veg and an 8-bulb for flower. So my veg would be:
FIJI PURP
Super Actinic
75.25
FIJI PURP
UVL 454
FIJI PURP
with two empty slots (or I'll leave the agromax 6500k bulbs in there for shits)
Then at flower I can just add the two Red Suns into the empty slots, and the third Red Sun replaces the 75.25...
Much thanks all around! Glad I didn't put the red suns into my veg arrangement already.
So my thoughts are, all things considered, I could just go with a six-bulb setup for veg and an 8-bulb for flower. So my veg would be:
FIJI PURP
Super Actinic
75.25
FIJI PURP
UVL 454
FIJI PURP
with two empty slots (or I'll leave the agromax 6500k bulbs in there for shits)
Then at flower I can just add the two Red Suns into the empty slots, and the third Red Sun replaces the 75.25...
Much thanks all around! Glad I didn't put the red suns into my veg arrangement already.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Your grow looks amazing. What light configuration are you using?
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Rev: There is a complete grow on another site using standard bulbs (I think Quantum). I was so impressed that I bought my BB 8 bulb. Google BendMC for his thread. I can only speculate (as I am 3 weeks in veg- with awesome main stalks and lovely growth) that flowering results will be similar using the Red Suns. hth
pr0fesseur
Well-Known Member
What no one understands is that Yeild is entirely dependent on 3 factors
1. STRAIN
2. NUTRIENTS
3. GROWER
NOT LIGHTS, hard to believe i know but given the same light source you can yield as much as you want given you allow the plant to veg long enough and provide the PAR a plant needs to grow. and for those nonbelievers ive seen 1lb a plant from only T5
That being said there is a point where you reach diminishing returns. The sun only provides ~1360W sq/m and 100% PAR/PUR.
If you grow the same strain in a DWC with the right nutrients and a grower who knows has strain he will out perform a soil grow any day of the week. The reason you cannot apply the final product to the scientific method is you cant measure 2 separate things @ once using the scientific method.
Any one who knows physics can tell you that you cant measure both speed and distance @ the same time. Read about the laws of special relativity then pick up a book or go back to school with your ignorance in check.
I am only measuring the efficacy of my T5 vs standard T5, not yield.
I could have used flowers or buckwheat... or peas, grapes tomatoes. yield is not a determining factor to the viability of a light source, its a perk. Even if you had a larger yield lets say 25% more with HPS/MH and we both grew grapes, lets say i had a higher sugar content, i would get a better price for my grapes than you would regardless of total weight! Thats a simple law of economics. An even more basic principal is the law of scarcity, my quality is better so therefore i can demand more $. If one cannot grasp those concepts you need to STOP doing drugs immediately!
I have Phd peer reviewed science to back up my experiments and have yet to see someone post 1 conflicting document. Until then lets all keep growing and sharing instead of speaking out of our as*s*es...
side note
I dont have to keep my lights farther than anyone else light does not "mix" (optical illusion)the sheer fact that you can even observe light is only because that light actually "reveals" the quantum state of an object. using Actinics verses Mixed bulbs has MANY advantages firstly PAR... ANY bulb that uses multiple phosphors like <12000K bulbs have less PAR, plants dont care what "kind" of light they get so long as its in the "PAR" range... if i have 1 actinic and 1 red sun i have 100% par, on the other hand the 75.25 and aqua suns have about 70% because the produce light that is out of the ideal "PAR" range.
I have a post called ACTINICS EXPLAINED please read.
1. STRAIN
2. NUTRIENTS
3. GROWER
NOT LIGHTS, hard to believe i know but given the same light source you can yield as much as you want given you allow the plant to veg long enough and provide the PAR a plant needs to grow. and for those nonbelievers ive seen 1lb a plant from only T5
That being said there is a point where you reach diminishing returns. The sun only provides ~1360W sq/m and 100% PAR/PUR.If you grow the same strain in a DWC with the right nutrients and a grower who knows has strain he will out perform a soil grow any day of the week. The reason you cannot apply the final product to the scientific method is you cant measure 2 separate things @ once using the scientific method.
Any one who knows physics can tell you that you cant measure both speed and distance @ the same time. Read about the laws of special relativity then pick up a book or go back to school with your ignorance in check.
I am only measuring the efficacy of my T5 vs standard T5, not yield.
I could have used flowers or buckwheat... or peas, grapes tomatoes. yield is not a determining factor to the viability of a light source, its a perk. Even if you had a larger yield lets say 25% more with HPS/MH and we both grew grapes, lets say i had a higher sugar content, i would get a better price for my grapes than you would regardless of total weight! Thats a simple law of economics. An even more basic principal is the law of scarcity, my quality is better so therefore i can demand more $. If one cannot grasp those concepts you need to STOP doing drugs immediately!
I have Phd peer reviewed science to back up my experiments and have yet to see someone post 1 conflicting document. Until then lets all keep growing and sharing instead of speaking out of our as*s*es...
side note
I dont have to keep my lights farther than anyone else light does not "mix" (optical illusion)the sheer fact that you can even observe light is only because that light actually "reveals" the quantum state of an object. using Actinics verses Mixed bulbs has MANY advantages firstly PAR... ANY bulb that uses multiple phosphors like <12000K bulbs have less PAR, plants dont care what "kind" of light they get so long as its in the "PAR" range... if i have 1 actinic and 1 red sun i have 100% par, on the other hand the 75.25 and aqua suns have about 70% because the produce light that is out of the ideal "PAR" range.
I have a post called ACTINICS EXPLAINED please read.
HUH? I have 2 RED SUNS for Veg, as you previously suggested...is this a test?
pr0fesseur
Well-Known Member
Someone please find the post where i told someone to use red suns for veg?
I believe earlier in this thread he suggested a FIJI/BLUE/RED/FIJI setup for a 4 bulb. Not sure if you swap in a 75.25 for the RED in VEG for a 4 bulb, it would seem to make sense though.
pr0fesseur
Well-Known Member
ya that setup is 50/50 R/B only 4 bulbs any other combination would throw off your ratio... all Fujis would be the same but more $$$ thus he would have the perfect veg "PAR" by providing 50/50 you complete the blue and red requirements in the 400nm range and 600nm range... any other bulbs would be reducing PAR.
In an 8 bulb setup i have more room to add extra lights.. Now when i add the red suns and take out the 75.25 or 454 im now 60/40 red blue.... anyone get this?
In an 8 bulb setup i have more room to add extra lights.. Now when i add the red suns and take out the 75.25 or 454 im now 60/40 red blue.... anyone get this?
pr0fesseur
Well-Known Member
yes^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
pr0fesseur
Well-Known Member
YEs for small 4 bulbs setups you would need the red to get the 50/50 R/B