letter about joe cain

will2568

Member
I couldn't agree with you more about NORML, which is why I won't get involved with them again either. Tax and regulate? Not here! In Michigan, food and medicine are exempt from sales tax, and cannabis happens to fall under both categories.
nice will.....:eyesmoke:
NORML is from 'my experience' >>the national organization for the >>REFFERAL of marijuana lawyers

i met mr Stroup back in the 70's when thats all they did...
..help people FIND mmj lawyers....

.i must admit he helped my friends brother when he was caught in AZ and got him out within a week-
good mmj refferal lawyer down in tuscon-

80lbs he was charged w and a hefty fine ....hefty legal fees and probation back in the 70's!!
needless to say his days as a 'driver' were over and he retired happily w a little organic grocery store up in humboldt-

other than that their whole 'legalization' effort IMHO looks like an attempt to sell us(pts) to the corporations now
(just like colorado and washington--?)
--where the lawyers running the show will reap the most benefits....

they have had 40+ yrs to help with the laws....what have they done but got us where we are @-???

if they were a "pts rights" group they would have rallied, unionized or organized THE PATIENTS --
to defend what >>few rights this fake law they have 'sold' all of us allegedly gave us

they're mostly lawyers bro....whos benefit do u think they have in mind...???

i dont see it....?
did i miss somthing?

i was involved with >UMSOM back in the 70's
....the first mmj 'medicall' group in mich-
that was for medicine for people by people ....not corporate stores selling us high priced shwagg

good lUk to u and your new love and i hope you can find the right group to support here.....
many of us are looking....

the obfuscation and intentional blurriness in mich tho makes many of us that are 'awake' leary of most of the factions here all trying to sell their particular brand of "kool-aid"
 

GregS

Well-Known Member
"i would say the site 'statistics' are not what you think or want us to-"

Maybe you will be so kind to tell us all about what I want you to think Buck.

Their alexa rank is not too bad for an organization of that nature. Online users, at any given time, can be found on the home page. Likewise, riu has a much higher rank. It is, after all, a national site.

I have already said all that needs to be said about the mod you mention, and have no intention to answer for him, or for that matter, anyone else. Perhaps you should ask him.
 

infinitalus

Active Member
I couldn't agree with you more about NORML, which is why I won't get involved with them again either. Tax and regulate? Not here! In Michigan, food and medicine are exempt from sales tax, and cannabis happens to fall under both categories.
Yeah, and they are talking about a 15-25% sales tax in Colorado. LOL!

Theyve already picked up a couple million from registration fees. To hell with the proceeds going to the general budget, it should go straight to the roads and public services.
 

buckaroo bonzai

Well-Known Member
"i would say the site 'statistics' are not what you think or want us to-"

Maybe you will be so kind to tell us all about what I want you to think Buck.

Their alexa rank is not too bad for an organization of that nature. Online users, at any given time, can be found on the home page. Likewise, riu has a much higher rank. It is, after all, a national site.

I have already said all that needs to be said about the mod you mention, and have no intention to answer for him, or for that matter, anyone else. Perhaps you should ask him.
i think that site sends "mixed" ....
if not intentionally blurred and double standard msg

just by vitrue of the rhetoric-


its 'fake' and "transparent"-


Yeah, and they are talking about a 15-25% sales tax in Colorado. LOL!

Theyve already picked up a couple million from registration fees. To hell with the proceeds going to the general budget, it should go straight to the roads and public services.
now for the latest news from colorado--bongsmilie

http://www.boulderweekly.com/article-11090-the-sneak-attack-on-amendment-64.html

The sneak attack on Amendment 64

The drug war dead-enders and nanny-statists who want to recriminalize marijuana in Colorado think they have hit on a cunning new strategy to do the deed.
They want the Colorado Legislature to put a constitutional amendment on the ballot this November that would repeal Amendment 64, the amendment that legalized marijuana in Colorado last fall, if the voters don’t approve the taxes on marijuana that will appear separately on the ballot.
On April 29, the Colorado House passed a bill putting a 15 percent excise tax and a 10 percent sales tax on pot.
For sheer creative sneakiness, the recriminalizers deserve some sort of a prize. Here are some of the political implications of what they are proposing:
• The recriminalizers would get their repeal Amendment 64 proposal put on the ballot by the Colorado Legislature, saving them the trouble and six-figure expense of collecting the 100,000-plus signatures that would be needed to put their scheme on the ballot via the petition route.
• The proposal would go to the voters in an election held in an odd-numbered year. Turnout in an odd-numbered year could be two-thirds less than turnout for a general election in a presidential year — like 2012 when Amendment 64 was passed. If past experience is any guide, the demographics most likely to go to the polls in November 2013 are Republicans and voters over the age of 65, the two groups most opposed the legalizing pot. By the same token, the two groups least likely to vote in 2013 are independents and voters under the age of 30, the two groups who voted most heavily in favor of Amendment 64.
• For anti-tax, anti-pot social conservatives, the proposal is a heaven-sent twofer. They can vote “yes” on the repeal Amendment 64, and then cast a “no” vote on the taxes to trigger the repeal, which will allow them to feel holy twice over.

• For nanny-state liberals, who live in state of constant fear that Colorado voters will turn thumbs down on any and all new taxes, the proposal may seem a heaven-sent way of coercing the great unwashed into passing the pot tax. This may explain why House Speaker Mark Ferrandino (D-Denver) called the proposal “worth the conversation” and Senate President John Morse (D-Colorado Springs) declared himself “absolutely supportive of the idea.”
All in all, pretty damned clever.
But perhaps too clever by half.
Mason Tvert, who led the campaign to pass Amendment 64, characterized the recriminalization proposal perfectly with one word: “extortion.”
“Placing such a measure on the ballot would amount to extortion of the voters,” he said. “Voters will be told that they must vote for whatever taxes the legislators choose in order to prevent the repeal of the constitutional amendment they approved last November.”
Tvert made a second point as well: Putting a proposal to recriminalize marijuana on the ballot in 2013 is very likely unconstitutional. Under the Taxpayer’s Bill of Rights (TABOR) provisions of the Colorado Constitution, the only measures that can be put on the ballot in odd-numbered years “are issues of government financing, spending, and taxation,” and Amendment 64 goes way beyond that. April 29, Tvert released a legal opinion from an attorney with the election law firm Heizer Paul Grueskin strongly agreeing with him. According to attorney Edward Ramey, in as much as Amendment 64 could not have been put on the ballot in an odd-numbered year under the provisions of TABOR — since it speaks to much more than taxes, spending and government finance — an amendment to repeal it could only appear on the ballot in an even-numbered year.
It might come as a surprise to the recriminalization proposal’s perpetrators, but Americans tend to deeply resent the sort of sleazy squeeze play they are pushing. Voters can respond to this sort of scheme with an anger and fury that transcends the metrics of political demographics and can knock the most sophisticated political calculation into a cocked hat.
The instinctive reaction of a voter who thinks he is being threatened, coerced and bullied is to vote “hell no.” Democrats who think a recriminalization ultimatum is the way to get the marijuana taxes approved may discover that voters reject both the recriminalization proposal and the taxes — just to make it clear they are not going to be pushed around.
The real irony here is that a recent poll — of 900 registered Colorado voters, done by Public Policy Polling April 15-16 — found overwhelming support for the 15 percent excise tax and the 10 sales tax on pot. Seventy-seven percent of those polled supported the two taxes.
About the only thing I can think of that could cause that sort of support to turn into “no” votes would be to threaten voters with the sort of ham-fisted political extortion that the recriminalization proposal represents.
One final point. In politics, friends come and go. Enemies accumulate. Make enough enemies, and you will destroy your political career, your political party and everything you value in public life.
Lawmakers, especially Republican lawmakers, who find the recriminalization scheme seductive, should remember that a vote to recriminalize marijuana is really a vote to recriminalize people — hundreds of thousands of them. That is not a clever thing to do. It is an obscenely evil one, and the people you vote to turn into criminals again will be your enemies for life.
 

buckaroo bonzai

Well-Known Member
......."Tax and regulate? Not here! In Michigan,

food and ""medicine"" are exempt from sales tax, and cannabis happens to fall under both categories".......

EXACTLY!

but they want to tax the "sale" of mmj-:leaf:
not the mmj itself...lol


i have been trying to get someone to respond to that for along time-

i have a family member was very high ranking @U of M hospital
i am well aware of the fact they cant tax "medicine" :joint:


NORML??

i have known what they are about since the 70's------------>lawyers:cry:
 

TheMan13

Well-Known Member
I would stay clear of any lightening rod surrounded by lawyers working both offence and defense. If you cannot afford to be atop that racket, you take a serious chance of becoming a scapegoat. Take Danny Trevino for example and his prosecuted HydroWorld employees.
 

Cory and trevor

Well-Known Member
so....I missed the lansing market raid/closed thing. what happened and why is it no more. Please don't just post "joe caine did it he is evil" I got that part. state police raid? what gives
 

kountdown

Well-Known Member
Joe Cain's facebook page is public as well as Lanserdams. Joe has mentioned on his page he was tipped off that the market was getting raided. A women on the Lansterdam page, who I assume is related to the owner's of the property wrote this message (copy and paste, i omitted their names which may confuse, but if you have a facebook account you can read it yourself and all the other crap on their respective pages):



..I feel like this should be public knowledge. My family and I did not cancel anything on our end-we asked for 2 weeks to work on the building and that was agreed. We had patients and 2 vendors show up who did not get notified that Lansterdam was cancelled so we let them in-we did not feel it was ok to turn patients away. Now we are being threatened by (party1) via a Facebook message and he is acting like he is a member of law enforcement. I just feel like everyone has a right to know what is happening regarding Lansterdam from our end. We are always a phone call away should anyone care to contact us and hear things first hand!
(party1) August 14th 2013 12:48 am
(party2), I will be mailing you and your family a formal cease and desist tomorrow but here is the short version. You are hereby ordered to halt any medical marijuana related business. We have a signed contract stating the terms of our business arrangement. You violated those terms by first telling us we would be closed and then operating a market without us. There were several criminal laws violated including theft by deception as well as numerous tortious offenses stemming from your unfair business practices. Rest assured we will seek criminal warrants as well as filing suit seeking maximum penalties should you peruse any medical marijuana venture venture.
(party2) August 14th 2013 2:08 pm
You know that my father does not facebook and you have his phone number and know where he lives. We know where you live and we have your phone number and we can handle this face to face like people should handle things. Sit down and enjoy some food, coffee and talk about things like grown people. I have never signed anything with my name on it (party1)((party2)) and I don't have a contract with anyone and as far as I know the contract has expired. We all wanted to sit down and discuss things as adults and were waiting on a phone call from you/viv to arrange that meeting. If anyone would have called us directly we could have discussed exactly what was going on but instead words were said by outside parties and you took that as the truth. That is not our fault!!
So I copy and pasted the message that you sent and texted to my father and this is what he wrote back.
"You have my phone number and you know we have a meeting coming up with you, viv and my family and yours to discuss any further anything here. Your lease has expired and you can consider this the notice to quit. It would be wise to think and discuss things together and get the facts directly from those involved not 2nd or 3rd parties. You and I started this and you and I should be discussing this like men and not using the internet and my family. I'm available for a meeting with you whenever you are available and would like to talk. If you need my lawyers contact info I will forward it to your lawyer post haste if you feel that legal action is needed for some reason. Are you acting as a law enforcement officer threatening my family? Hope you are having a good day and all is well with you and yours. God bless you (party1). "
(party1) August 14th 2013 2:08 pm
I don't threaten
 

TheMan13

Well-Known Member
LMFAO @ an MJ related lawsuit threat :confused:

I do not believe "theft by deception" is a part of MI criminal law either. Cain may want to check to ensure his legal council's credentials within this state, no less this country :eyesmoke:
 

lansingmi2013

New Member
Lansing market has been closed by Joe Cain and his actions. You can ask him on what happened although believe what you want. Joe and the owner of the building in Lansing had an agreement and Joe did not fullfill it. When the owners asked to sit with Joe about new terms to help ease problems he refused to sit and talk.

Members of Lansterdam were at Canna Camp audio recording conversations without peoples knowledge to run and tell Joe. Also, after Canna Camp Joe sent an unmarked car to take pictures of people coming and going that showed up the next Saturday(in which the market was supposed to be closed). JOE ADMITTED this on facebook publicly. He sent a spy to track his own people and I do not think that is right. He sends a spy to capture pictures of his patients cars and of them entering the building??

Bill almost died on Joe's watch and when the owners of the building asked for 2 weeks off from the market to work on the building Joe said ok. The next Saturday 2 of Joe's vendors showed up due to not getting notified by Joe so the owners of the building let them in. Then patients showed up and again they were let in. No money was made that day by the owners of the building as the building has never had a rental fee or anything attached to the market.

Since that Saturday (August 10th) Joe sent out a facebook messages saying warrants have been issued, etc. Joe will still not sit and talk to anyone about this-it has been way over dramatized. Joe threatened his own community with telling people warrants have been issued, raids are on the way. He is supposdly one of us but yet he talks like a member of law enforcement.

Anyone had dealings with him in Jackson? I have heard many many things from people that worked with him, for him and who attended. Kinda interesting
 

GregS

Well-Known Member
Joe is a pariah. He has done more to hurt the movement than anyone but Bill Schuette.
 

TheMan13

Well-Known Member
Joe is a pariah. He has done more to hurt the movement than anyone but Bill Schuette.
They are all the same in the end brother, plaintiff and defense. It's just a game most of us sadly cannot afford :( Ever consider the business model of these huge law firms as they relate to our economy as a whole? I once paralleled such with Communism in a pre law class shortly after the end of the Cold War :eyesmoke: There was silence and odd stares upon my completion, but none rebutted and many never forgot :bigjoint:
 

GregS

Well-Known Member
They are all the same in the end brother, plaintiff and defense. It's just a game most of us sadly cannot afford :( Ever consider the business model of these huge law firms as they relate to our economy as a whole? I once paralleled such with Communism in a pre law class shortly after the end of the Cold War :eyesmoke: There was silence and odd stares upon my completion, but none rebutted and many never forgot :bigjoint:
Sounds interesting.
 

ozzrokk

Well-Known Member
ok is anyone else having a problem getting past page 3 of this thread? The last post I can see is theman13 post that starts with.......LMFAO @ an MJ related lawsuit threat.......

I can see that there is supposed to be a page 4 and even has a page 4 listed but when I click it I get sent straight to page 3. Very weird.....
 

ozzrokk

Well-Known Member
Yep and I cannot even see the post I just made in this thread. If anyone knows what the hell is going on please pm me.
 

TonightYou

Well-Known Member
Ya know while taxes are a bitch, they are a necessity for those who want to operate a business in our society. What needs to happen is to find the appropriate rate which the market will sustain while not driving product diversion.

All of us have a different relationship to growing cannabis. I grow for myself and really that's all I care about. Let me grow and life is fine. Besides my career will gross me far mors money over time than growing a plant.

Now if you are a commercial grower, your interests are different than mine. More props to the commercial growers but its a business. As such one should expect to be taxed. Just as any other business. Not sure why people don't get that. People should be happy to participate in a legal market without the fear of arrest. Besides I'd rather see commercial growers paying taxes instead of spending our tax dollars in a 7 by 10 cement cell.
 
Top