Lollipopping ( Any Scientific Evidence? )

Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
Ninjabowler said:
Well maybe your not packing them close enough to understand what indoor growing is all about. What im trying to explain to you which you clearly dont understand, is that when you have a canopy that is so dense that light doesnt penetrate, the bottom is crap....like think scrog. Im sure youve probably never done it so you probably dont have the foggiest about what happens under the screen. Well let me explain for you. It SUCKS. I dont even want to rewrite that its undeveloped, fluffy, and so on again but i have too for you....again.

The argument here is not if the plant will retain its leaves, it will, those scragly crap, lime yellow leaves hold on forever unfortunately. The argument is do you want them on there. Do you want the trimmers putting that crap in the bag thats on its way to the market? The answer is no. I dont want anyone pulling that center of the plant, lower crap bud off and stuffing their pipe full of that crap bud that should have been trimmed off, as a first impression of my product.

You grow outside, under green houses, under a natural light mover (the sun). You dont deal with the same shit indoor growers deal with, you dont have a clue about indoor growing besides being able to recite plant growth processes and soil compositions, and light wavelengths mabey. If you did youd know that cutting branches off, and cleaning out centers, or trimming off side growth in SOG, or removing under the screen in a SCROG, are all steps professional growers take to ensure the best product is delivered.

So scream "bullshit!", all youd like, call me a fool, sit and scream at your computer all youd like, but your still wrong. Ill hack wrecklessly with my fiskars and trim out my garbage buds and lower energy wasting branches to improve my final product because thats what has proven to work time, and time again, while you continue to grow outdoor, with drip systems, under glass or plastic, under the sun, and relentlessly interject into indoor growing threads spreading lies and spewing shit from your word hole when infact its you, that dont have a clue.
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You simply don't know what you are talking about.

Ben has done plenty., He started indoors. You just want to fight.


You are making so many assumptions it is actually funny in a scientific sense.

A1- Light does not penetrate the leaves to bottom.

you can see the bottom can't you? It is reflecting light from those bottom leaves

A2 - Leaves are opaque to PAR frequencies

take a PAR meter and put it under there. leaves are somewhat transparent to PAR

A3 - the top blocks the bottom

besides A1 and A2, there is still the fact that is why those leaves are BIGGER, they have more surface for less PAR.

A4 - Light is not a whole plant resource

The plant takes light where it can and produces what it can. Add side lights, don't take leaves

A5 - the popcorn is worthless since it doesn't get light

see A4

A6 - the yield you lose from popcorn is more than made up in cola mass

Anyone with a scale can see that is not true.
 
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Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
bud nugbong said:
those are all pics of top nugs...
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No they're not. Nice try, spin. ;)

In fact, the nuggets at the bottom of the plants in photos #3 & 4 are wider than the main cola at the top! Also, if you scroll down page one you'll see typical "popcorn" nugs. They add up, at least for me they do. For you MJ wimps that have trouble retaining your lower leaves, don't try this at home. :mrgreen:
 
bud nugbong

bud nugbong

Well-Known Member
You cant post the pic here? Im not sure im looking at the right ones...all the pics I see on that page look like they are tops.
 
Ninjabowler

Ninjabowler

Well-Known Member
Doer said:
You simple don't know what you are talking about.

Ben has done plenty., He started indoors. You just want to fight.


You are making so many assumptions it is actually funny in a scientific sense.

A1- Light does not penetrate the leaves to bottom.

you can see the bottom can't you? It is reflecting light from those bottom leaves

A2 - Leaves are opaque to PAR frequencies

take a PAR meter and put it under there. leaves are somewhat transparent to PAR

A3 - the top blocks the bottom

besides A1 and A2, there is still the fact that is why those leaves are BIGGER, they have more surface for less PAR.

A4 - Light is not a whole plant resource

The plant takes light where it can and produces what it can. Add side lights, don't take leaves

A5 - the popcorn is worthless since it doesn't get light

see A4

A6 - the yield you lose from popcorn is more than made up in cola mass

Anyone with a scale can see that is not true.
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Fighting is not my goal. What id like to show is that you cant sit behind a computer and say things like never trim off branches, or never take off a fan leaf. Its just wrong. I stripped 80% of the fan leaves off a friends dwc because of mite damage and they all grew back throughout veg and the plant was great. DEFOLIATION at its finest. Blanket statements will always be disputed because their almost always disputable.

Ben your a smart guy, you should know that ;) and doer, i deal with clients who dont appreciate bottom lime green yellow fluffy buds. You and ben may be right about THC content but the difference in the price a Q fetches makes that little bit of extra work with the scissors worth the effort :D
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Ninjabowler said:
Fighting is not my goal. What id like to show is that you cant sit behind a computer and say things like never trim off branches, or never take off a fan leaf. Its just wrong. I stripped 80% of the fan leaves off a friends dwc because of mite damage and they all grew back throughout veg and the plant was great. DEFOLIATION at its finest. Blanket statements will always be disputed because their almost always disputable.

Ben your a smart guy, you should know that ;) and doer, i deal with clients who dont appreciate bottom lime green yellow fluffy buds. You and ben may be right about THC content but the difference in the price a Q fetches makes that little bit of extra work with the scissors worth the effort :D
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OK, I'm sorry. You really are blind. But the old fart can help......but first we have to test you to make sure how severe your vision problems are.
http://www.maxiaids.com/products/1624/Kindergarten-Eye-Chart.html
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Doer said:
You simple don't know what you are talking about.

Ben has done plenty., He started indoors. You just want to fight.


You are making so many assumptions it is actually funny in a scientific sense.

A1- Light does not penetrate the leaves to bottom.

you can see the bottom can't you? It is reflecting light from those bottom leaves

A2 - Leaves are opaque to PAR frequencies

take a PAR meter and put it under there. leaves are somewhat transparent to PAR

A3 - the top blocks the bottom

besides A1 and A2, there is still the fact that is why those leaves are BIGGER, they have more surface for less PAR.

A4 - Light is not a whole plant resource

The plant takes light where it can and produces what it can. Add side lights, don't take leaves

A5 - the popcorn is worthless since it doesn't get light

see A4

A6 - the yield you lose from popcorn is more than made up in cola mass

Anyone with a scale can see that is not true.
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EXCELLENT points, one by one. You rule!
 
Ninjabowler

Ninjabowler

Well-Known Member
So ben, whats your feelings on trimming out under the screen in a SCROG setup? Or runaway branches in a SOG set up? in your professional opinion should those be taken care of? (Trimmed off)
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Ninjabowler said:
So ben, whats your feelings on trimming out under the screen in a SCROG setup? Or runaway branches in a SOG set up? in your professional opinion should those be taken care of? (Trimmed off)
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You need to go back and read my posts, one or two pages back. I addressed your question. CO2 flag ring a bell?
 
Ninjabowler

Ninjabowler

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
Bullshit.....

Now that's the pot calling the kettle black. :spew: Here, I'll repeat my very recent response since reading comprehension is not your strongest suit. Look at da pretty peetures and see for yourself, uhhhhhhhh, indoor gardens, just in case you didn't get it the first time.

You do what you want but if you'll LOOK at photos #3 & 4 in this thread which clearly reveals leaves over leaves, branches extending into other plants' branches.... https://www.rollitup.org/t/no-lower-budsites-do-not-need-light-to-develop-get-educated.829061/ ....you'll see that your theories, your feelings, are totally invalid as are most. We're talkin' the real world here.

Just in case it's not quite clear, the plants shown were not in front. I pulled out plants to show them off, to take pictures. They were crammed in amongst their sisters.

Uncle Ben
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Wow, thats one way to debate. Just type in "bullshit" then go back after the conversation has gone a page ahead and edit in a four paragraph reply when no ones looking to make yourself look smart!? Are you serious!? Thats some pretty low shit Ben.
Wow, that takes stones. I think im going to go edit all my posts in this thread to include the line "UB is a sneaky little creep, watch that hes not editing his posts from pages back to make it look like he has a point;)"
 
R

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
You do what you want but if you'll LOOK at photos #3 & 4 in this thread which clearly reveals leaves over leaves, branches extending into other plants' branches.... https://www.rollitup.org/t/no-lower-budsites-do-not-need-light-to-develop-get-educated.829061/ ....you'll see that your theories, your feelings, are totally invalid as are most. We're talkin' the real world here. ;)

Uncle Ben
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Well, i tried to bring this to a common ground of civility. Feels like wasted energy.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
Ninjabowler said:
Fighting is not my goal. What id like to show is that you cant sit behind a computer and say things like never trim off branches, or never take off a fan leaf. Its just wrong. I stripped 80% of the fan leaves off a friends dwc because of mite damage and they all grew back throughout veg and the plant was great. DEFOLIATION at its finest. Blanket statements will always be disputed because their almost always disputable.
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It is a hardy plant and you are a commercial grower, and I have keep a personal use journal here for years. And aren't you sitting at a computer typing? The difference is you are defending your commercial story. Boring. Here is a jingoism. It is a blanket statement "at its finest," Sigmund Freud. "DEFOLIATION at its finest." Good one, now go smoke a bowl how about? Your self defeating banter is showing.

When I grow without trimming I get dense bottom nugs. So, maybe you didn't feed correctly. The Nutes business is full of ganja myths. It is a hardy plant that can grow by candle light practically. Of course, It can be stripped. It can be kept as a bonsai, dwarfed mom for years. That is hardly the point, so don't dance around. We are just discussing here, not attacking your business.

Maybe you too could learn something for real and teach us. I'm open to that.
 
Ninjabowler

Ninjabowler

Well-Known Member
reasonevangelist said:
Well, i tried to bring this to a common ground of civility. Feels like wasted energy.
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Anytime ben gets into a thread it turns to "shit fer brains" this and "bullshit" that. Its his arrogant style. Just bear with it ;) e-ammo usually flies and learning happens in some form or another.
Uncle Ben said:
You need to go back and read my posts, one or two pages back. I addressed your question. CO2 flag ring a bell?
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nope, i cant find it. I looked and all i found is your edited quote and a couple nonsense "BULLSHIT's" thrown about.

So can you just answer the question, whats your feelings about the stuff under the SCROG? Or the runaway branches in SOG? Should you trim them off?
 
Ninjabowler

Ninjabowler

Well-Known Member
Doer said:
It is a hardy plant and you are a commercial grower, and I have keep a personal use journal here for years. And aren't you sitting at a computer typing? The difference is you are defending your commercial story. Boring. Here is a jingoism. It is a blanket statement "at its finest," Sigmund Freud. "DEFOLIATION at its finest." Good one, now go smoke a bowl how about? Your self defeating banter is showing.

When I grow without trimming I get dense bottom nugs. So, maybe you didn't feed correctly. The Nutes business is full of ganja myths. It is a hardy plant that can grow by candle light practically. Of course, It can be stripped. It can be kept as a bonsai, dwarfed mom for years. That is hardly the point, so don't dance around. We are just discussing here, not attacking your business.

Maybe you too could learn something for real and teach us. I'm open to that.
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Doer i think you are one of the smartest members here. Your work on Heisenburgs thread was amazing. I refuse to debate with you because everything you say is usually bang on. Ben on the other hand is so funny, he know a lot as well but is so pompus and so theres no grey area its hilarious. I mean the guys got a thread claiming topping as his own invention lmao and claims lolly popping is wrong, along with defoliation...period...end of story...no grey area...no way and no how...never...ever. My response to that in the words of the great and powerfull UB himself.......bullshit.
 
DCobeen

DCobeen

Well-Known Member
I read a few pages back about someone saying led lights cant grow a+ weed only B+. I can say light is 1/4 what it takes to grow them right. you must have all in play. Lights are what is needed to finish your style environment. If heat is an issue led's could be the cure. I think fluorescent can do it as well as hid and led. Dont blame the lights when it fails, blame yourself. If you read what they say you will get it.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Ninjabowler said:
Anytime ben gets into a thread it turns to "shit fer brains" this and "bullshit" that. Its his arrogant style.
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Pot calling the kettle black. Whew, where in hell do these people come from? Washington D.C.?

It's a (natural) reaction. Someone needs to check their own nasty and arrogant posting decorum out.... witness your FIRST post in this thread. --> "
Wow, seems uncle ben still hasnt figured out that you get better, bigger, more fully developed buds when theres light getting to them. Youd think a guy with a head of knowledge like he has would be able to look at a cannabis plant and see how poorly the bottom buds turn out on some genetics and concede. If you grow big canopies indoor youll see light green underdeveloped scraglies where theres a lack of light. Same thing with pruning a tomato plant. Its common sense. Proper pruning produces better quality more uniform fruits. Fact."

You, a hypocrite, come in a here like a bull in a china/crystal store full of forum folklore and hearsay and void of botanical fact. Expect to be corrected by those who are willing to take the time to help - Chuck, Doer, Caretaker, me, and others.

And to correct you again, I never said that topping was my invention. Topping to get 2 - 4 main colas is/was, about 15 years ago. I introduced it before there was Vbulletin type forums, while you was still messin' in your drawers and I was experimenting with cannabis until there was no tommorrow. :)

Lollipopping is not only wrong, it's stupid. Regarding SOG or SCROG (which I'd never do) if the leaves are yellowing, obviously not productive, then yank them. If they are green, leave them alone. Let the plant drop them on it's own accord. Needless to say they are not as active (productive) as their newer counterparts but they are still involved in the overall functioning and welfare of the plant - they are transpiring and act as food storage units aka resources for the plant. Like I said, via a CO2 flag the plant will drop them (first pulling the metabolites from the leaf tissue) when the leaf's CO2 processing activity falls below a certain level.

UB
 
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axl

axl

Well-Known Member
Pass it Around said:
I just went to my boys house and he has the bottom 2 feet of all his plants empty... not a leaf not a bud... only sticks. I just don't get why someone would do it... he said air flow but really put another fuckin fan in there you know what I mean?

Anyways I just wanna know if there is any scientific evidence that this does anything good for the plant? He also said something about only getting big buds but he also strips the 2 feet in ONE day...

to me thats like taking a fuckin chainsaw to your ladies and asking them to perform great after.
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There are a lot of valid reasons dude. The light intensity drastically is reduced the further away from the buds are from the light. So, one of the reasons i do it is to avoid having any bullshit, immature, undeveloped popcorn bud. Not doing it has the plant wasting energy, it could be sending to the top, primo buds, on those, again, shitty little popcorn buds. Dont have any scientific evidence for you, just my own experience. My yields are the same regardless, but again, by lollypoping, the amount i get is all good shit, and no undeveloped buds
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
Ninjabowler said:
Doer i think you are one of the smartest members here. Your work on Heisenburgs thread was amazing. I refuse to debate with you because everything you say is usually bang on. Ben on the other hand is so funny, he know a lot as well but is so pompus and so theres no grey area its hilarious. I mean the guys got a thread claiming topping as his own invention lmao and claims lolly popping is wrong, along with defoliation...period...end of story...no grey area...no way and no how...never...ever. My response to that in the words of the great and powerfull UB himself.......bullshit.
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I know, man. It is all OK. And from my perspective Ben got pushed pretty hard before he said that. You need to own up for your part. I'm kinda hoping you would see things more reasonably.

There is no way possible for You, Me or Ben to discover much new about Botany. So, of course, when he says "Uncle Ben's" technique FOR..... he didn't say he invented plant topping.. That was done at O'dark:30: Dawn of Man. You know that, too.

So, it is the same with Heisenberg. We call it H-tea, Bennies, or whatever, and it works, but he didn't invent that. He found out about it, did his trials and research, and told us. The same with Ben. And I have read almost all of his stuff and most of it is re-printed in IC Mag, and some is here. The guy does not have an egotistic bone in his body. You and I however....different story, maybe, huh? :)

Ben and I tangle in Politics, but not here. See? I think it is kinda cool, to come up with names like Uncle Ben's Topping Technique or Doer's Dog Pile. I didn't invent trash talk, nor am I claiming that. I talk about it.

Ben is educating us and we are fortunate in that. I have learned a lot and many here owe their success directly to Ben. So, I say RIU is not for debate. Debate has rules and a moderator keeping time. Debate is face to face. Here we are having discussions. And in discussions, some have it correct in the Botany sense, and some, not so much, at times.. But we are all trying to learn, not trash-bomb each other.

That is what Politics is for. See? :)
 
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DCobeen

DCobeen

Well-Known Member
All here is a flower for peace on a great sunday. Now this is day 25 under fluorescent lights and I have not seen this as much under led/hps/cmh which i have them all and have used them all to grow this strain.
enjoy your fresh flower all. oh yeah click on it to zoom.
 
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