Mass Medical Strains

They were both to do with preservation projects. They were gone over ad nauseam in old mms threads.

Lots of people do ad hominem attacks…whatever. There are plenty of other things to dislike. He is just trying to sell an image and seeds. I just dislike it when that image actually harms the community and the gene pool.

I’ll give you an example beyond the genetic issue…one time I asked him how he amends his soil…he replied he doesn’t he uses fresh soil each time(not exact words he made it more flowery). Later on I found my response deleted and I’m blocked. My question didn’t fit his narrative. Also he says he “breeds with intention” constantly but I don’t see any intention anywhere…he just makes crosses…he isn’t furthering any lines…he isnt trying to get Y trait with X trait. I mean he isn’t doing anything that anyone else isnt…..he just wraps himself in virtue. Which for some reason TO ME makes it much worse than what other people are doing.

Coalcat said:

They were both to do with preservation projects. They were gone over ad nauseam in old mms threads.

Lots of people do ad hominem attacks…whatever. There are plenty of other things to dislike. He is just trying to sell an image and seeds. I just dislike it when that image actually harms the community and the gene pool.

I’ll give you an example beyond the genetic issue…one time I asked him how he amends his soil…he replied he doesn’t he uses fresh soil each time(not exact words he made it more flowery). Later on I found my response deleted and I’m blocked. My question didn’t fit his narrative. Also he says he “breeds with intention” constantly but I don’t see any intention anywhere…he just makes crosses…he isn’t furthering any lines…he isnt trying to get Y trait with X trait. I mean he isn’t doing anything that anyone else isnt…..he just wraps himself in virtue. Which for some reason TO ME makes it much worse than what other people are doing.

Mass Medical Strains

So I got these testers in the magic box today. They are from mass medical. It's Star Pupil x Lambs breath/bread Their star pupil is phenomenal. And I haven't looked up lamb breath yet. Any one know anything on it.

www.rollitup.org

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I’ve not seen the issues with preservation projects and actually brought some Acapulco gold off him with the intention of doing an open pollination myself one day as they’re rare to find, especially over here. He’s always encouraging this alongside breeding with any of his strains. I’m not sure why he deleted the comment either as I’ve seen his grow method, he uses smaller pots than many organic growers and just water from start to finish then says he reuses them soil in other stuff, I got the impression it was reused outside but I’m not sure if I got that right. As I said, I’m not here to argue about him, I just had a lot of positive experience myself and he seems to get a lot of bad reviews without much evidence or from people who haven’t tried anything from him. At least you’ve had first hand experience a d reasons behind your opinions. Although I hope they’re at least half wrong as I have about 8-10 packs of mms seeds I intend to grow alongside a few other breeders lol.

Speedtriplebbc said:

I’m going to give you credit on this response, you’ve got god reasons for what you say and have actually tried his strains. Certainly beats “he’s a fake as he uses a voice changer” or “my mate says he’s reselling xxx strains” I like what I’ve grown so far and had good results and he’s always responsive to any questions I’ve had. I don’t worship him but I have had more problems with other breeders and happy to share that I’ve been more than happy with what he’s doing.
I know everyone has an opinion and experience that they will share. What was the incidents you mentioned about Woodstock farmacy, irrizine and Acapulco gold? I’m thinking you mean Irrazing, but I follow his work and not seen any conflict.

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The conflict with Woodstock Farmacy/acapulco gold "preservation" run was basically the same issue as with Prof P, unclear expectations, as after he made more acapulco gold seeds from an open pollination he was selling them at full price and Woodstock Farmacy was pissed he focused on profits more then helping the community. There might have also been a question of whether it was really an open pollination or if he applied too much selection pressure which inherently shifts the genepool by creating a bottleneck by eliminating some parents instead of preserving them. Usually only off types are rogued out but I wasn't really following it all, I like his seeds but he lays on a unnecessary level of marketing. Which is why I've only bought collabs of his gear, although I'll pick up some Star Pupil at some point to see what the parent material is like in all the crosses of his I've grown.

Somatek said:

The conflict with Woodstock Farmacy/acapulco gold "preservation" run was basically the same issue as with Prof P, unclear expectations, as after he made more acapulco gold seeds from an open pollination he was selling them at full price and Woodstock Farmacy was pissed he focused on profits more then helping the community. There might have also been a question of whether it was really an open pollination or if he applied too much selection pressure which inherently shifts the genepool by creating a bottleneck by eliminating some parents instead of preserving them. Usually only off types are rogued out but I wasn't really following it all, I like his seeds but he lays on a unnecessary level of marketing. Which is why I've only bought collabs of his gear, although I'll pick up some Star Pupil at some point to see what the parent material is like in all the crosses of his I've grown.

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Makes sense, I guess I miss a lot of the information being in another country. I was aware he pulled out hermies to prevent the trait passing on but that’s all. If it’s preservation of the original strain I would expect that but nothing else really. I know I can get feminised Acapulco gold from MSNL but I expect if it’s not hybridised, it’s had a very rigorous selection looking at their information on their website. I’m intrigued by the star pupil myself, as it’s a mainstay not limited I haven’t tried it yet, just a few limited release strains. The fact he’s done the collaborations with other reputable breeders is another reason I question the bad press he gets, although I suspect if I was in the USA I might have heard a few bad things about some of them too?

Speedtriplebbc said:

Makes sense, I guess I miss a lot of the information being in another country. I was aware he pulled out hermies to prevent the trait passing on but that’s all. If it’s preservation of the original strain I would expect that but nothing else really. I know I can get feminised Acapulco gold from MSNL but I expect if it’s not hybridised, it’s had a very rigorous selection looking at their information on their website. I’m intrigued by the star pupil myself, as it’s a mainstay not limited I haven’t tried it yet, just a few limited release strains. The fact he’s done the collaborations with other reputable breeders is another reason I question the bad press he gets, although I suspect if I was in the USA I might have heard a few bad things about some of them too?

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Hey if star pupil is what you want I wouldn’t hesitate to get it. Not even for a second. The most important thing is you enjoy what you are growing and what you are smoking. That basically what it boils down to. That is what this is all about. If you buying for the genetics and not the marketing with eyes open I don’t see any problem with that. My problem is more with him and his fans who see him as this benevolent figure.

I honestly can’t wait for it to be federally legal and the seed market to crash.

Coalcat said:

Hey if star pupil is what you want I wouldn’t hesitate to get it. Not even for a second. The most important thing is you enjoy what you are growing and what you are smoking. That basically what it boils down to. That is what this is all about. If you buying for the genetics and not the marketing with eyes open I don’t see any problem with that. My problem is more with him and his fans who see him as this benevolent figure.

I honestly can’t wait for it to be federally legal and the seed market to crash.

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I agree with both sentiments; it's easy to buy into a growers hype, either positive or negative, but it comes down to being educated enough as a customer to be able to sort out what's purely marketing and focus on the facts.

With legalization spreading around the world I think we'll be looking at a very different market, for seeds and finished product, in the near future. Plant breeder rights alone will be a huge difference, without even getting into the aspect of people being able to breed on a large scale. Until then it's up to the individual to take responsibility and educate themselves to the point they can differentiate marketing from substance.

Speedtriplebbc said:

Makes sense, I guess I miss a lot of the information being in another country. I was aware he pulled out hermies to prevent the trait passing on but that’s all. If it’s preservation of the original strain I would expect that but nothing else really. I know I can get feminised Acapulco gold from MSNL but I expect if it’s not hybridised, it’s had a very rigorous selection looking at their information on their website. I’m intrigued by the star pupil myself, as it’s a mainstay not limited I haven’t tried it yet, just a few limited release strains. The fact he’s done the collaborations with other reputable breeders is another reason I question the bad press he gets, although I suspect if I was in the USA I might have heard a few bad things about some of them too?

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I've had good experience with the Dman and Katsu collabs, both are old growers I've followed for years and had the pleasure of meeting Dman a couple times in person. I'm sure some people have legitimately had bad experiences with him or his seed, it's inevitable that not every customer is going to be happy but most of the people I've talked to/traded clones with that have that have grown his gear have been happy so I don't have a problem recommending him with the caveat that a lot of his opinions about growing are personal and not science based.

Like the idea of pulling hermies from a preservation run to "improve" the seed by not passing that trait on. That's no longer a preservation run but veering into selective breeding as we don't know what other traits are linked to being monoecious, which some populations naturally express. That illustrates the kind of marketing which happens even on a passive level as it's either a preservation run to maintain the entire genepool for future use, only rogueing out off types that don't match the cultivar (i.e. a broad leafed plant in a NLD variety) or selective breeding to make the variety more desirable for certain growing conditions like indoors. With all that being said I don't know much about acapulca gold specifically and how it's defined which brings us back to my reply above about how much legalization will change the situation when people are able to collect, catalogue and preserve the remaining native populations before there's too much is lost.

I’m not sure if there’s any other selections but he has been open about pulling the hermies. I can see why this is technically no longer a preservation for the reasons said. As my primary reason to buy is to grow an old strain, it’s not a concern to buy knowing this selection is all that’s been filtered out, I’m sure many customers are also happy with that. Dropping the title “preservation” and just selling Acapulco gold is fine by me as long as there’s others who are doing the genuine open pollination for official preservation. I suppose just taking it away from growing outside in Mexico to an indoor grow room is enough for it to not be the original though? I still prefer to buy these than the Barneys farm copy or the MSNL that claims to be original but advertised a much shorter flowering time and shows modern dense looking buds that has clearly had a lot of selection to narrow down what traits they want.

The bigger thing about Acapulco is it’s not supposed to be sold. The “rules” of accepting it are it’s supposed to be given freely only. Crosses are fine to be sold.

I just bought Mr.E.Pupil.........stupid or?

ichimoto said:

I just bought Mr.E.Pupil.........stupid or?

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The original “Mr E” wasn’t an MMS strain and quite a good one to grow. I’m sure people will disagree with me but most strains crossed with star pupil come out good. Did you read about it? Did it sound like something you’d enjoy? Just grow it with the same care as usual and let us know how it goes. If there’s any more breeders being hated on, let me know as I get great results from all of them. When I started growing, everyone slated “Cali connection” I’ve had no issues with them and ran a small commercial grow of their “green crack” for six years because everyone kept asking me for it.

Coalcat said:

The bigger thing about Acapulco is it’s not supposed to be sold. The “rules” of accepting it are it’s supposed to be given freely only. Crosses are fine to be sold.

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Do you mean Acapulco gold “preservation” as I’m sure other people sell the seeds? Can’t be just MMS doing any landrace preservation, MSNL sell what they claim to be an original but looks a bit dense with a lot shorter flowering time. Also, if you’ve spent a few months growing them with your soil, nutrients and lighting, surely you want to get something to cover costs? Especially when they have a long flowering time. I was actually planning to set aside a grow room to do an open pollination on the ones I got from MMS before growing the females for bud. I personally will be giving them away, but I’m not running a business.

Speedtriplebbc said:

Do you mean Acapulco gold “preservation” as I’m sure other people sell the seeds? Can’t be just MMS doing any landrace preservation, MSNL sell what they claim to be an original but looks a bit dense with a lot shorter flowering time. Also, if you’ve spent a few months growing them with your soil, nutrients and lighting, surely you want to get something to cover costs? Especially when they have a long flowering time. I was actually planning to set aside a grow room to do an open pollination on the ones I got from MMS before growing the females for bud. I personally will be giving them away, but I’m not running a business.

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Well…bodhi and Woodstock managed not to charge. He also could have refused the line or just crosses them. But you are not supposed to sell the pure line. That is why there was only a short period where he was selling them and then he pulled them because so many people were ticked.

Coalcat said:

Well…bodhi and Woodstock managed not to charge. He also could have refused the line or just crosses them. But you are not supposed to sell the pure line. That is why there was only a short period where he was selling them and then he pulled them because so many people were ticked.

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Gotta admit that I had no idea others we’re giving them away so I see your point. I know for a fact he’s currently doing another batch of seeds as the first batch sold out so fast and people have been asking him for more.

Where did you find the AGold seeds at when they were available?

keifcake said:

Where did you find the AGold seeds at when they were available?

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I think I got mine from “Insane seeds” before I discovered “Cheeba beans” in the uk.

There's soo many seed banks out in the world today that I've never heard of lol. Hopefully it will be released in one of the US seed banks when new seeds are available

Speedtriplebbc said:

Cheeba beans

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Coalcat said:

The bigger thing about Acapulco is it’s not supposed to be sold. The “rules” of accepting it are it’s supposed to be given freely only. Crosses are fine to be sold.

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Thanks for clarifying as I couldn't remember exactly what the drama was all about other then it wasn't a true preservation run/benefit to the community but became a commercial venture with hurt feelings and accusations flying and MMS playing the victim more then owning his mistake, although didn't they end up giving out as freebies or something?

He’s 100% selling more soon, so it’s not been a big deal to him lol