Most Efficient LED Light

CobKits said:

thats nonsense. with similar optics the cob would likely put out more PAR (less IR tho). assuming youre trying to do it with 1 or 2 chips youd be running them pretty hard and efficiency would dip

4 larger cobs at 250-275W each in the tight space of a DE would beat a DE on par. thats just math. pure umols. no "photon density" pseudoscience.

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But where is the grow comparing these same (4) high powered COB's (or any COB's) and to the DE of all things not even a SE........no where to be found.

I am seeing this face to face right now in my flower tent. The 1K HPS puts out more heat than the 650W+ of COB's and uses more power, and the plants under the 3K 3590's are doing fine so far, but the plants under the HPS are maturing faster and healing faster from super cropping and LST etc. This is what the charts and data sheets don't show you. And it's very frustrating as a grower when you're trying to make sens of this all and evaluate different types of lights. You can't just go off of calculations. These plants are alive and I don't care what anyone says, there is something in the HID lighting that the plants like better than straight COB. I am watching it daily. I have two strains that I popped beans for and luckily got similar pheno's between the two you could call them pairs and I split them up between the COB and the HPS. They are getting the same soil, feeding, foliar etc. Only diff the lights. We will see end of next month how it turns out.

IMHO if you have to run watt for watt with COB's in comparison to HID you are defeating the purpose of gong to LED.

Yodaweed said:

No you don't understand the fact they are less dense the further from the light source they are.....read up for fuck sakes stop your arguing and read.

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I understand the inverse square law. I also understand that as a photon travels away from it's source it will either reach the target destination via direct path or reflection, or it will be absorbed before it reaches the target. Those are the only two options. With either a single point source or multi point source raising the lamp will incur reflective penalties via the absorption of photons, the amount of which is determined by the inverse square law among other things.

Of course the average light density is lower when the lamp is placed higher. That's because more photons hit the wall and don't get reflected, but splitting a 1000w into 10 100w sources doesn't change things much... and the point in doing so it to prevent having to hang the light so high.

This will eventually lead to nifty things like getting 16 sq/ft from a 2x4 tent.

Is it safe to come out yet

Olive Drab Green said:

In any case, everyone here is going to see how much 3 COBs are going to yield. Guaranteed, it is going to yield what I said it's going to yield. And when it does, you are all going to be quiet and never say a word to me again, out of embarrassment. Except @Rahz who has $615 worth of my money.

I'm used to shooting from the hip up a defilade. I'm still alive, despite all odds. I'll yield that of a 600w HPS. And in the end, you'll all be between embarrassed and impressed. So watch and learn.

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I have to quote this so you cannot erase it. The yields of a 600W HPS with 241 watts of COBS and two puny 8 week vegged plants?

Ok go for it grower we are all watching.......

And remember larf and sugar trim don't count and it has to be dry weight not wet weight a day after harvest.

Oh and despite all of the nonsense you have spewed today and continue to do so, I must commend you on one thing. You have today united many unlikely forum adversaries. Look around you bro, when the situation looks like you are wrong and everyone else is right, it's probably because that's the case lol.............

But even comparative grows like yours aren't the full story. People have been honing their growing techniques for years under HPS. It wouldn't make sense to just replace your HPS with a cob fixture and keep air and heat management the same, that's unfair to the cobs. But then how do we do a valid side by side?

CobKits said:

thats nonsense. with similar optics the cob would likely put out more PAR (less IR tho). assuming youre trying to do it with 1 or 2 chips youd be running them pretty hard and efficiency would dip

4 larger cobs at 250-275W each in the tight space of a DE would beat a DE on par. thats just math. pure umols. no "photon density" pseudoscience.

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Might beat it on PAR but won't match coverage.http://timbergrowlights.com/900-watt-cree-cxb3590-5x5-framework/ 900w COB fixture, it's advised to be hung 12-18 inches, no 1000w hps should EVER be hung that close to plants.

Evil-Mobo said:

I have to quote this so you cannot erase it. The yields of a 600W HPS with 241 watts of COBS and two puny 8 week vegged plants?

Ok go for it grower we are all watching.......

And remember larf and sugar trim don't count and it has to be dry weight not wet weight a day after harvest.

Oh and despite all of the nonsense you have spewed today and continue to do so, I must commend you on one thing. You have today united many unlikely forum adversaries. Look around you bro, when the situation looks like you are wrong and everyone else is right, it's probably because that's the case lol.............

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Yeah. I won't erase it, you little fuck. Find the PPFD of a 600w HPS. If it is less than 900-1100w HPS, call me out. But if it isn't, meet me in Kensington, Philadelphia so I can give you what you deserve for talking shit.

Don't worry. I won't kill you. I'll just make you feel it.

Rahz said:

I understand the inverse square law. I also understand that as a photon travels away from it's source it will either reach the target destination via direct path or reflection, or it will be absorbed before it reaches the target. Those are the only two options. With either a single point source or multi point source raising the lamp will incur reflective penalties via the absorption of photons, the amount of which is determined by the inverse square law among other things.

Of course the average light density is lower when the lamp is placed higher. That's because more photons hit the wall and don't get reflected, but splitting a 1000w into 10 100w sources doesn't change things much... and the point in doing so it to prevent having to hang the light so high.

This will eventually lead to nifty things like getting 16 sq/ft from a 2x4 tent.

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You must not understand how light intensity spread the further from the source you are(directly effects photon density). You say you do but you seem to not understand one big 1000w hps bulb will be able to be hung higher than ten 100w hps because the single point has a higher initial value. 10 of those 100w lights will have more even coverage (no big hot spot in middle) but will need to be closer to the plants due to lack of intensity due to the law of inverse square.

bri77 said:

But even comparative grows like yours aren't the full story. People have been honing their growing techniques for years under HPS. It wouldn't make sense to just replace your HPS with a cob fixture and keep air and heat management the same, that's unfair to the cobs. But then how do we do a valid side by side?

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PPFD.

Yodaweed said:

Might beat it on PAR but won't match coverage.http://timbergrowlights.com/900-watt-cree-cxb3590-5x5-framework/ 900w COB fixture, it's advised to be hung 12-18 inches, no 1000w hps should EVER be hung that close to plants.

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Damn that's an excellent price for 900w. even the 6 x 6 PAR is reasonable.

Now, if the CoBs can be mixed between CW, NW & WW that would really be something

PetFlora said:

Damn that's an excellent price for 900w. It should easily cover 6 x 6.

Just closed the link, can the CoBs be mixed between NW & WW?

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That in my book is the best COB premade fixture money can buy right now, big props to timber lighting, those guys know how to do it. I do believe you can contact them and arrange something.

Yodaweed said:

That in my book is the best COB premade fixture money can buy right now, big props to timber lighting, those guys know how to do it. I do believe you can contact them and arrange something.

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Alas, no room in the inn, unless I break down 2 smaller tents and buy a 8 x 8 cause I find I need room to move around under big tents which have bigger and more plants, plus Im not a commercial or dispensary grower. More of a hobby

Olive Drab Green said:

Yeah. I won't erase it, you little fuck. Find the PPFD of a 600w HPS. If it is less than 900-1100w HPS, call me out. But if it isn't, meet me in Kensington, Philadelphia so I can give you what you deserve for talking shit.

Don't worry. I won't kill you. I'll just make you feel it.

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Wow just wow.

I am shivering in my shoes. If you punch like you grow a plant I have nothing to worry about except your feelings getting hurt AGAIN!

Stick with your PPFD, mean while the rest of of us will go back to real world gardening. I am sure you can start a cool business for fancy restaurants or something growing plants for their tables they seem fitting.

Evil-Mobo said:

Wow just wow.

I am shivering in my shoes. If you punch like you grow a plant I have nothing to worry about except your feelings getting hurt AGAIN!

Stick with your PPFD, mean while the rest of of us will go back to real world gardening. I am sure you can start a cool business for fancy restaurants or something growing plants for their tables they seem fitting.

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It sounds like he wants to do you in the butt, the whole line of he wants to make you feel it makes me wonder.

Evil-Mobo said:

Wow just wow.

I am shivering in my shoes. If you punch like you grow a plant I have nothing to worry about except your feelings getting hurt AGAIN!

Stick with your PPFD, mean while the rest of of us will go back to real world gardening. I am sure you can start a cool business for fancy restaurants or something growing plants for their tables they seem fitting.

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Except the rest or this site also goes by PPFD.

Yodaweed said:

It sounds like he wants to do you in the butt, the whole line of he wants to make you feel it makes me wonder.

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LMAO he can't grow a plant how the hell can he handle all of this lol

Evil-Mobo said:

LMAO he can't grow a plant how the hell can he handle all of this lol

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Better give him your fruit cocktail!

Evil-Mobo said:

LMAO he can't grow a plant how the hell can he handle all of this lol

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I have a grow journal that says otherwise.

Yodaweed said:

You must not understand how light intensity spread the further from the source you are(directly effects photon density). You say you do but you seem to not understand one big 1000w hps bulb will be able to be hung higher than ten 100w hps because the single point has a higher initial value. 10 of those 100w lights will have more even coverage (no big hot spot in middle) but will need to be closer to the plants due to lack of intensity due to the law of inverse square.

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Light does spread but if the light is reflected back in the target area then the inverse square law will not accurately describe the result. If there's a difference in the PPFD it's only because some of those emitters are further off to the side, which contributes to reflective loss. That is the effect of the inverse square law. In both cases raising the lamp will cause a loss. The issue with 1000w bulbs is that regardless of how good the reflector is the intensity will always be much higher in the center. Raising it up is not as good a solution as breaking the hotspot up at the source precisely because raising the lamp causes more light to hit the walls. Doesn't matter if it's 10 100w bulbs or 1 1000w bulb.

So yes, I understand the point you're making but it's not as cut and dry as citing the inverse square law.

Rahz said:

Light does spread but if the light is reflected back in the target area then the inverse square law will not accurately describe the result. If there's a difference in the PPFD it's only because some of those emitters are further off to the side, which contributes to reflective loss. That is the effect of the inverse square law. In both cases raising the lamp will cause a loss. The issue with 1000w bulbs is that regardless of how good the reflector is the intensity will always be much higher in the center. Raising it up is not as good a solution as breaking the hotspot up at the source precisely because raising the lamp causes more light to hit the walls. Doesn't matter if it's 10 100w bulbs or 1 1000w bulb.

So yes, I understand the point you're making but it's not as cut and dry as citing the inverse square law.

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Plant's don't reflect light back and in the real world a lot of that stuff is lost. You keep refering to this situation in a sphere, that's not where any of us grow plants. I do realize there is a hotspot with HPS but LEDs also have hot spots if they have lenses or reflectors. You run a bare bulb vert 1kw hps in a circular scrog, thats max effective lighting.