MOTIF'S T5/600wHPS DWC 5 GALLON BUCKETS

Hey everybody, i guess i finally came around to making another journal, so let me recap you on what were working with here.... There will be lots of pics and pics on request are encouraged, so lemme know what you wanna see..

.::. The two FLOWERING plants are 1 indica dom and 1 sativa dom. Both were vegged for about 3 and a half weeks. Switched to 12/12 on 04-15-09 (51 days today)

.::. The one VEGGING is a clone off the sativa dom. Its first day of veg was 05-14-09 (22 days today). Lights are on 24/0.

Heres the pics..

Any idea what the defeciency is on the indica?? I thought it might be rapid pH fluctations...

the two flowering girls have been FIM'd and lollipopped.

The vegging clone has been FIM'd, supercropped, and lollipopped. That sativa got way outta control tall, and i wont make the same mistake twice. So i tied her down real good this time, as you can tell.

Feedback is greatly appreciated, and much encouraged

(Flower) Lights ON = 84-86F
(Flower) Lights OFF = 68-70F
(Vegging) Lights ON = 77F

Flowering plants PPM = 1300 (ish)
Vegging clone PPM = 1100

Flowering WATER TEMPS (lights on) = 72 F
Flowering WATER TEMPS (lights off) = 65 F

Ill give pH scales on next new batch of nutes, but i usually pre-pH my water to 5.5-5.8 BEFORE adding nutes to it.

What do you all think of all this??

Hey Motif

Shit mate that looks like spider mites or something going on there.
Have you checked under the leaves for the little fuckers.
Your PH should be fine at those levels so I don't think it's that.
It's fucking serious though.
I think it's pest related.
Have a scope under your leaves and tell me what you see.

man the thing is, i dont think its pest related. if it were, my sativa woulda def been fucked by now....

heres my two guesses: pH off balance or manganese defeciency. Check these out from 420magazine.com

Ph Problems

One of the first signs of having a slight ph problem is, your plant having part of the leaves kind of twisty, spotty with brown, yellowish, red spots within each other.
Sometimes they don’t have to have all the colors, they could just be spots that have yellowish brown, or just reddish brown and can happen anywhere on the plant. Mainly starts on big fan leaves then goes to little leaves.

^^That describes exactly how it started, fan leaves to newer growth. And also the color of the "spotting" is right on. No pics were provided tho.^^

Calcium (Ca) -Macro Nutrient and an Immobile element.

Calcium is another important element that helps the plants cell walls, cell division in making the plants stems, stalks, branches stronger, as well as contributing to root growth, mostly the newer root hairs, Calcium also helps enhancing the uptake of K in the the plants roots. Calcium moves really slow within the plant and tends to concentrate in roots and older growth.

When plants exhibit a Calcium deficiency the younger leaves are the first to show it as well as older leaves. The Leaf tips will die back, the tips may curl, and growth of the plant is stunted. The plant can show a weakness in the stems and branches, as well as a under developed root system that can lead to bacteria problems with roots dieing off. Having slow plant transpiration rates can aggravate the uptake of calcium. Make sure your soil isn’t very acidic, for calcium gets harder to be absorbed through acidic soils, Which leads to having a plant that is deficient in Calcium. The leaf tips, edges and new growth will or may turn a yellow/brown colour that happen in spots and often surrounded by a sharp brown outlined edge and then the leaf tips die back. If too much calcium is given at an early stage of growth it can stunt the growth of your plants. Having to much of calcium will also flocculate when a concentrated form is combined with potassium. The parts affected by a calcium deficiency are the roots. Stem or petiole, young or old leaves.

Too much Calcium will lead to other micronutrient deficiencies. Calcium fixation is caused by many types of mediums such as: clay soils, unbuffered coco and humus. The lime tends to bond to these soils very easily. The stems of the plant will not be able to hold the plant up and will exhibit a white brown in between the veins of the leaves when having too much calcium. Also having to much potassium and or nitrogen will cause a calcium lockout.




wadya think?? Oh and there are no "webs" either, and my sativa aint infected, so i dont think its pest related like i was saying earlier

without getting into too much detail.
PH is last to adjust after you've done all your shit.

Do everything then adjust PH.

Mites are sneaky, don't just look for webs, get on ya back and look up.

These fucking weeds live on tap water with no fucking around.

Check for pests.

The damage looks to be located some what.

I see plenty of green healthy leaves in other places.

looks to me like you locking out nutes from the Ph being waaaaay off.i had the same probs with my first grow,IO got a Ph pen and never had that prob again..When you lock out one element ,it causes another element not to be able to work off the locked out one.Sounds crazy right but thats how it works.

Damn those sativas are 51 days flowering? Wow I'm so totally sticking with indys from now on. I made the same mistake but mine is a very limited height and I've lst'd her into a knot but I didn't realize or start the training till she was quite lenghty. Next time deffinately will top and lst from the beginning lol. Anyways I'm pretty sure its nutrient lockout from the way those leaves are looking from ph being off or mg deff. My first grow deffinately looked like this.

Peace

looks like bug damage to me. =/

fdd2blk said:

looks like bug damage to me. =/

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First of all, I wanna thank you guys for dropping by, I couldn't even be where I am today without you guys help!

Secondly, reason being I don't think its pest related is cuz the problem ceased after I flushed for 5 days and gave it new nutes. It didn't repair the leaves, but it hasn't spread anymore since...

And the leaves actually look like a worse case of the Mg def pic provided by 420mag.com, or at least very similar.. No?

How much longer would you guys guesstimate the indica has? I was thinking maybe two more weeks of nutes before I flush... Wadya think?

motif said:

First of all, I wanna thank you guys for dropping by, I couldn't even be where I am today without you guys help!

Secondly, reason being I don't think its pest related is cuz the problem ceased after I flushed for 5 days and gave it new nutes. It didn't repair the leaves, but it hasn't spread anymore since...

And the leaves actually look like a worse case of the Mg def pic provided by 420mag.com, or at least very similar.. No?

How much longer would you guys guesstimate the indica has? I was thinking maybe two more weeks of nutes before I flush... Wadya think?

Click to expand...

i had some rust spots on my last grow. only on some plants though. the ones directly below my sulphur burner. i think the sulphur on the leaves messed with the ph and caused spots. i'm not sure though.

motif said:

First of all, I wanna thank you guys for dropping by, I couldn't even be where I am today without you guys help!

Secondly, reason being I don't think its pest related is cuz the problem ceased after I flushed for 5 days and gave it new nutes. It didn't repair the leaves, but it hasn't spread anymore since...

And the leaves actually look like a worse case of the Mg def pic provided by 420mag.com, or at least very similar.. No?

How much longer would you guys guesstimate the indica has? I was thinking maybe two more weeks of nutes before I flush... Wadya think?

Click to expand...

If it's old damage and not spreading then nothing to worry about hey?
If it's pests you'll be able to see them if you look for them.
Always hard to say from pics when plants are ready for the chop.
When buds are ready they look done.
You still have plenty of white stigma.
I think your suggestion of another 2 weeks then flush sounds good.

fdd2blk said:

i had some rust spots on my last grow. only on some plants though. the ones directly below my sulphur burner. i think the sulphur on the leaves messed with the ph and caused spots. i'm not sure though.

Click to expand...

sulphur burner? what the hell? Lol

motif said:

sulphur burner? what the hell? Lol

Click to expand...

um, yeah. is that funny or something? i don't get it.

fdd2blk said:

um, yeah. is that funny or something? i don't get it.

Click to expand...

sorry bro i was laughing at how nub iam since i have no idea what that is... my b

heres some porn..

The sativa is starting to fill out and mature more, starting on the lower branches working its way up.

gave the indica more nutes today (no bloombastic, awesome blossoms instead, will use last of the BB next week) pH was yellow-orange. Right where i like it. Listened to ya mammath and i didnt adjust pH before adding nutes. I actually discovered that after adding the nutes, the pH is already adjusted perfectly!

Hey Motif sorry it took so long to take a look at your journal, I agree with Fdd it dose look like some kind of pest doing the damage.

Thanks for the invite, Motif, I wondered what happened to you, I haven't seen you in a while on our thread.
I got a freind on here at RIU, that grew Sativa, look for thrasher645, is his name here. He Had to Flower his Sativa for 22 weeks, but he ws getting half a pound of dried manicured buds from one plant. He grew in a shower stall and had to bend them over cause they got 8 feet tall.

These are pics I found in a book, and comparing them to your plants, you are over feeding them, and might have some heat stress.

Look and see if these look like yours:

Look closely, and you'll see the brown leaf edges that are indicative of heat stress. This damage looks alot like nutrient burn, except it occurs only at the tops of the plants closest to the lamps. There's only one cure for this...get the heat away from the plants, either by moving the lamps or moving the plants.


There's a good chance that this bud was subjected to nutrient solution burn. These symptoms are seen when the EC concentration of hydroponic solutions is too high. These symptoms also appear when strong nutrient solution is splashed onto the leaves under hot HID lamps, causing the leaves to burn under the solution.
Many hydroponic gardeners see this problem. It's the beginning of nutriet burn. It indicates that the plants have all the nutrients they can possibly use, and there's a slight excess. Back off the concentration of the nutrient solution just a touch, and the problem should disappear. Note that if the plants never get any worse than this here, then the plants are probably just fine.
Figure 4 is definitely an over-fert problem. The high level of nutrients accumulates in the leaves and causes them to dry out and burn up as shown here. You must flush with clear, clean water immediately to allow the roots to recover, and prevent further damage. The find the cause of the high nutrient levels.



You say you running 1400 ppm during Flowering? I wonder what the ppm of your water is, before you add the nutes?????
According to this chart I found on the Internet, you might be over-feeding them:

PPM for Hanna Chart PPM


Seedlings, Early Sprouts 100 to 250

Early Vegging 300 to 400

Full Vegetation 450 to 700

Early Blooming 750 to 950

Full Mature Blooms 1000 to 1600

Note: EC Calculations are different, here's a conversion chart :
heres a great chart that shows how different PPM can be from meter to meter... EC is the only real universal language...

Motif, I hope I am not giving you INFORMATION OVERLOAD, but I think you are very close to getting Nutrional Lockout, judding from your leaves. Are you getting rust spots? Do they drink as much as they always have or are they drinking much less lately?

Here is something I wrote for Stealth Hydro, and I think it will help you.. If I was you, I'd do the Drain and Replinish, and try less nutes.

Diagnosis and Recuperation Guide

We'll discuss some signs of illness first, then offer remedies for Recuperation and Recovery.

Both new leaves and mature leaves are the best indicators to determine how healthy your plants are. Any problem or illness will first manifest itself in the appearance of your leaves. These problems almost always originate from the plant's environment, PH imbalance or over-feeding and under feeding. These problems always result in what is called "nutritional lock-out".

Nutritional Lockout
Allow us to GIVE you a simplified definition of NUTRIONAL LOCKOUT.
Can you imagine sitting a plate before a child at dinner time, with his most favorite food, hot dogs, ketchup and french fries? But also on the plate is a major portion of steamed broccoli, which he is just not fond of and insists on nibbling on. Now imagine telling that child, "you can not eat the hot dog and fries if you do not eat all the broccoli too". NUTRITONAL LOCKOUT is when the child responds with "well then, I just won't eat!"

Stealth-Hydro's nutrients are both nutritionally and PH balanced. But after being in your tank for 5 or 6 days, and being eaten from for 5 or 6 days, they become imbalanced. Perhaps you are growing plants that ate all the nitrogen first and just snacked around the iron, magnesium and calcium, or visa versa. The results are discoloration in the leaves, yellowing or rust spots, or curling up of leaf tips. It also becomes apparent when your plants were consuming a gallon or half gallon of water every day, and then suddenly when you check the levels the next day, they did not drink any water at all. This is NUTRITIONAL LOCKOUT.

Instead of giving lengthy descriptions of indications of overfeeding, underfeeding, ph imbalance, environmental problems and Nutritional Lockout here, it is easier to just give the remedy. Here we will refer to this remedy as THE RECUPERATION AND RECOVERY REMEDY.


THE 8 STEP RECUPERATION AND RECOVERY REMEDY

1. Check the roots. If they are discolored, reddish or brown, or present an unpleasant odor, you have a problem. If they are weak, soft or mushy, you have a problem. Also while checking the roots, observe the temperature of the water. If it is warmer than "luke warm" you have a problem. This problem is probably what is referred to as "root rot" or a disease known as PYTHIUM. Remove the dead brown roots by trimming them away with sharp scissors. Do not leave them in the tank.
2. Check the humidity and temperature of the grow area below the lights in the "growing zone" when the lights are on. A temperature of above 82 degrees or below 67 degrees will slow growth, but it is not a serious problem that will kill your plants. Temperatures below 62 degrees or above 90 degrees will stop growth. An extremely high temperature in the upper 90s or below 58 degrees can slowly result in death of your plants. The most efficient temps for growth are between 72 to 80 degrees. Any Humidity between 40 and 60 percent is acceptable and desirable.
3. Check the "lights off, nighttime" temperature. Most desirable is ten to 15 degrees cooler than the daytime "lights on" temperature, averaging 66 to 70 degrees.
4. Check the distance between the tips of the plant and the tip of the light bulb. If you observe yellowing or leaf curling tips, then move the lights one inch further away. A good rule of thumb if you use HID lights, is hold the soft palm of your hand at the leaf tip and see if the bulb is too warm to your hand. If you use Stealth Hydro's compact fluorescent bulbs, we recommend a distance of three or four inches for the 65 and 85 watt bulbs and 4 inches to five inches for the 105 watt bulbs. More mature plants can handle the bulbs slightly closer.
5. Check the position of your fans. Air movement is very necessary for the health of your plants, but too strong of a fan can cause wind burn. Direct your fan toward the tops of the plants and toward the lights. Never position the fan blowing strongly downward on the leaves.
6. Add 1/4 teaspoon of hydrogen peroxide to a quart of water and add it to the tank of six gallons already in the tank. Wait ten minutes and then turn the water and nutrition solution pump off to prepare to drain the tank. Poor at least a cup of clean water through each grow cup, onto each rockwool cube and through the hydroton rocks.
7. Drain or pump the tank empty as possible without damaging the pump by running it dry. Add two gallons of additional clean water with 1/4 teaspoon of hydrogen peroxide again and then drain it away too. Again, empty the tank as empty as possible without burning up your pump.
8. Add fresh PH balanced water and nutritional packets as prescribed. PH test it again.

The above 8 steps should repair and remedy any health problems that your plants experienced within the next two days. Now is the time to try and determine what caused the problem to start with, by investigating and researching typical hydroponics problems and illnesses. Here are a few DIAGNOSIS TIPS.


Typical Hydroponics Problems and Illnesses

Underfeeding and Weak Nutrition
The entire plant, both upper and lower leaves, will show lime or light green in color.
The plant will not eat, drink or show growth.
It is time to follow the 8 Step Remedy.

Overfeeding, Use of Too Strong Nutrients
The leaves will curl downward. They grow very dark dull flat green and then the tips show signs of burn.
It is time to follow the 8 Step Remedy.

Nutritional Lockout
You know that you have made recent PH adjustments. You might know you may have used too much of the PH Adjustment Solution. You may have failed to test the PH often enough. You notice the plants did not eat or drink because they did not consume the same amount of water they used yesterday. You see rust spots. The large lower leaves are prematurely dying and you are not in the BLOOMING or FLOWERING stage.
It is time to follow the 8 Step Remedy.

Wind Burn
You had the fan blowing downward toward the upper side of the leaves, instead of blowing up through the node spaces or toward the lights. You observe the leaves becoming dry or even crispy, perhaps shriveling, and the tips curling upward. The leaves do not appear glossy, moist and vibrant.
It is time to follow the 8 Step Remedy.

Water, Nutrition Solution or Roots Are Discolored Brown Or Have an Unpleasant Odor
You notice your water is becoming brownish in color, or smells distasteful. Your solution does not smell pleasant and appetizing like fresh lettuce. Your roots are not the same shade of white that they once were a week ago.
It is time to follow the 8 Step Remedy.

ROSEMAN IS a PLANT!