MarCus M.D
Well-Known Member
where are that result bro?
New alternative to the quantum bored bad to the bone
- Thread starter Growcob5
- Start date
captainmorgan
Well-Known Member
@CobKits did some testing on them, he posted in another thread about the numbers not being right. Don't remember which board or the type of tests,guess it wasn't sphere.
BuddyColas
Well-Known Member
As far as I know, there are no PPF readings posted for the Sun Boards. At least not on their site and on any posts I have seen. I would like to see them and do a stare-and-compare with the well documented and tested QBs.
iHearAll
Well-Known Member
Is this the board that he tested that he said he want going to name names? Like, where he tested five or six set ups and concluded that a bunch of cobs at a low power is more lm/w than a qb? (Or something)
CobKits
Well-Known Member
https://www.rollitup.org/t/par-test-of-cobs-vs-samsung-561-boards.942636/#post-13616975
takeaway:
-not all boards that claim to use 561c are equal
-the best boards ive tested are about equal in efficiency to 4 budget cobs. Or another way to state that is two on-cob diodes are equivalent to one 561C S6 diode in efficiency (aka 4 1212s with 144 diodes each = 576 diodes, which is exactly double the 288 diode S6 board i tested).
-the boards dont achieve any efficiency level thats unattainable by incresing current on a number of COBs, so selection comes down to design strategy and cost, so no one solution is "best" for all applications
future work:
- i have chillled boards on the way to test and throw in the mix
-ill be testing larger cobs against the best boards, to determine the # of cobs that equal a board in efficiency.some cobs have in excess of 600 diodes which could possibly exceed the boards in efficiency but again at that point you have A LOT of diodes crowded into one place fighting for heat dissipation so that will be a limiting factor, the extent of which is TBD
takeaway:
-not all boards that claim to use 561c are equal
-the best boards ive tested are about equal in efficiency to 4 budget cobs. Or another way to state that is two on-cob diodes are equivalent to one 561C S6 diode in efficiency (aka 4 1212s with 144 diodes each = 576 diodes, which is exactly double the 288 diode S6 board i tested).
-the boards dont achieve any efficiency level thats unattainable by incresing current on a number of COBs, so selection comes down to design strategy and cost, so no one solution is "best" for all applications
future work:
- i have chillled boards on the way to test and throw in the mix
-ill be testing larger cobs against the best boards, to determine the # of cobs that equal a board in efficiency.some cobs have in excess of 600 diodes which could possibly exceed the boards in efficiency but again at that point you have A LOT of diodes crowded into one place fighting for heat dissipation so that will be a limiting factor, the extent of which is TBD
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CobKits
Well-Known Member
yes if you read a few posts down you'll see that was OMS's board. i didnt want to throw him under the bus for a non-representative sample as the results were very unusual and imo required further testing. not just the scale but the low current performance was really really odd
iHearAll
Well-Known Member
That makes sense. Did they know you were going to be performing a side by side test of the actually circuitry?
CobKits
Well-Known Member
yes it was sent to me to test but again those results are strange. as you can see from all the other tests ive done, there usually is a pretty defined curve based on die count and thermal resistivity, in fact probably close enough to be modeled. but that board nosedived in efficiency at low currents which ive never seen. ive read about cob manufacturers specifying a minimum current for stable operation, its possible that there is just so many diodes on the board that the current per diode is not operating in a stable region
jonsnow399
Well-Known Member
Sorry Stephen I know that you put a lot of time and money into these boards But,no it is not a copyright issue, copyrights are for books, movies, pictures etc. If they were using the quantum board name it could be a copyright issue, IF you have copyrighted or trademarked the name. Copying the hardware is a patent issue but since you apparently don't have a patent or one pending, you have no case. I'm not a patent attorney, but I don't see anything patentable here. Even if you get a patent, you have to defend it and I doubt you're making enough money on these boards to justify attorney fees.
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CobKits
Well-Known Member
rereading this i think we may have a good 'theoretical baseline' with the boards that is useful to model other systems.
for example:
equivalence to one LM561C diode
clu048-1212: 2.0 diodes
clu048-1216:2.1 diodes
clu048-1818:2.3 diodes
clu058-1825: 1.8 diodes
clu058-3618: 2.0 diodes
etc
^that is all merely an example of one way to present data and has no data behind it to back it up other than observable trends that a given cob footprint can dissipate a finite amount of heat and less diodes on a given footprint do better per diode
<edit: my hypothetical ratios were backwards as to the trend i was trying to suggest>
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Stephenj37826
Well-Known Member
Actually a circuit design is patentable. Furthermore it's very unethical to copy someone's intellectual property. I'm not saying don't use Samsung lm561C..... I'm saying hey design your own board. Do not make a 100% copy and then call it a Quantum Board. I'm pretty sure anyone here would not be happy if they spent the time and money designing testing and proving a specific design to have others come in with a knockoff claiming it's the same exact thing as brand X when it's already been proven at least one of those boards happened not to be the same. It can do damage to our company through misrepresentation...... Just to set the record straight we haven't paid ourselves 1¢ and still don't have our own investment money back. Yes we are growing but it sure gets frustrating to work your ass off go without sleep just to have someone straight rip you off...... We spent 1000s of dollars giving away units to prove the tech sending them off to have them lab tested and paying engineers to help us with the design...... Have these other guys done that or are they riding on what we've built?
So what you are saying is we shouldn't mind?
If so it sounds like we shouldn't invest another second or dollar into this end of the business apparently. At the end of the day if I spend the time I need to be earning money to support my family in designing testing building ECT ECT this stuff only to be ripped off, undercut with fake copies, and ridiculed for saying anything about it, I need to leave it to the rip-off artists to innovate and I'll go do something else......
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MishaGrower
Active Member
Guys, do you know what is common between QB and other boards on the Samsung diodes? Nothing except the diodes themselves. The boards are even more refined, with the addition of color diodes.
To develop MPCB for LEDs is easy. Especially from the single type of diodes with the same characteristics.
There is no work to find the optimal spectrum, the development of optics and other.
The whole work takes one day, and all investments are repulsed from the first smallest lot.
In the CIS countries, people themselves make such PCBs (on osram diodes) in small batches.
561Cs are a real find for growing, but you do not need to take all the laurels to yourself. To a large extent, my claim is not to the creators of QB, but to their fanboys.
Whatever, QB is a great thing, very successful and really good.
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Stephenj37826
Well-Known Member
We spent a lot of time on these boards because of a very specific optical plan as well. You are correct building a PCB is easy. Researching the correct optics best led and driver compatibility that's another thing.
OLD MOTHER SATIVA
Well-Known Member
the damage that can be done outting someones name and address makes up for any respect i had..
i admitted i got lazy and didn't send the larger pcb sizedrawing before the factory
and actually wanted the size i have now..
a simple pm would have stopped me with the 25 sample panels i had made
instead of the pm verbal abuse ..and outting..
i apologised here too..but always hear crickets when suggestion hlg needed to do the same
in the end i have more honour despite my sin than hlg thinks they have
if something does not test as good then it doesn't .....and its back to the drawing board..
it all started with commercial leds strips from what i can
this is far from magic..
it was not my finest moment it surely was not yours
but at least i apologised
i admitted i got lazy and didn't send the larger pcb sizedrawing before the factory
and actually wanted the size i have now..
a simple pm would have stopped me with the 25 sample panels i had made
instead of the pm verbal abuse ..and outting..
i apologised here too..but always hear crickets when suggestion hlg needed to do the same
in the end i have more honour despite my sin than hlg thinks they have
if something does not test as good then it doesn't .....and its back to the drawing board..
it all started with commercial leds strips from what i can
this is far from magic..
it was not my finest moment it surely was not yours
but at least i apologised
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jonsnow399
Well-Known Member
I have no dog in this fight, but..I never said you shouldn't mind, never defended any of the copycats. I don't see anyone else selling boards and calling them quantum. I wouldn't be happy if someone ripped off my design but I know nothing can be done about it unless I have a patent. I never said anything about you shouldn't complain, what I'm saying is , its useless to complain unless you have a patent. Patent infringement happens EVERY day in business.
jonsnow399
Well-Known Member
captainmorgan
Well-Known Member
What's done is done. If people want to reward a company with questionable ethics by giving them their hard earned money to save a couple bucks says something about buyers too. My post was about warning the uninformed buyer about unethical sellers and manufacturers. I'm sure no one would question that there are companies out there lying about the parts they use. If they also make direct copies of someone else's work it also shows their laziness or just plain greed. Someone showed the math didn't add up so I warned people to be careful. If you buy from a sketchy source you might want to buy a single unit and test it to make sure it's real.
Stephenj37826
Well-Known Member
This wasn't anything to do with you. You aren't the only one that copied our board. I don't condone your outing and I can't personally apologize for the mistake but I can apologize for the company.
Quantum
HLG just keep pushing and innovating and great customer support. That will make the difference. Your going to have people robbing your ideas but they cant copy your work ethic.
Life is a marathon not a race. They will run out of gas for many reasons eventually.
But it would be cool to see some 660 cree on the boards. 3k + 660.
Keep up the quality and good work.
HLG just keep pushing and innovating and great customer support. That will make the difference. Your going to have people robbing your ideas but they cant copy your work ethic.
Life is a marathon not a race. They will run out of gas for many reasons eventually.
But it would be cool to see some 660 cree on the boards. 3k + 660.
Keep up the quality and good work.