Nutrient Runoff Question

JayJayDaStoner

Active Member
So my runoff after watering is 5.0
when I water it is 7.3
wtf can I do to raise my ph runoff to 7?
my water is
1 tea spoon calmag plus
1 tea spoon grow big

my soil is Foxfarm ocean Forrest
any insight?
 

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
If I raise my Ph to 8 will it even out?
A straight no to that, this is called chasing pH and dosent work, lime will raise acidic soil but low pH is normally the action of built up fertilizer salts.

I say a straight no but some alkaline elements will undoubtedly build up in the soil over time but always too little too late.

Low pH more than likely means stop overfeeding them but can also be a reaction of the soil from being overwatered Pics please.

Peace
 

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
keep flushing till you get runoff where you want it but your ph is low get it up there ASAP

As most soils are around 6.3 to 6.8 a true flush would be watered into the soil at approx 6.5. If runoff hits 6.5 then you can reat assured that without applying ferts a deficiency is round the corner.

Your right about getting the pH up to what you want but you also need to monitor the ppm of runoff too. Lets stop fooling ourselves as not overfeeding and adding the right amount of lime to the soil before planting means ZERO pH problems. Is that easy, pH goes down with ferts (Hydrogen ions to be exact and hydronium to be a science geek) and pH goes up with lime (Alkaline ions like calcium and magnesium).

Incedentally most ferts are made of NPK, Nitrogen is split into Ammonical and Nitrate Nitrogen, Ammoniacal is acidic to soil whereas Nitrate is alkaline to soil (only if the plant is healthy and eating because it swaps alkaline ions in the soil to uptake the Nitrate)
Phosphorous is acidic and Pottassium is alkaline. A good fertilizer should have the ability to buffer itself to some degree within these nutrients but an unhealthy plant dose not assimilate the Nitrate and hence its Alkaline value/charge is never released which may be the case that overfeeding lowers nutrient uptake and the ammoniacal nitrogen probably becomes more dominant over the alkaline ions hence low pH.
Again we see why P/K bloom boosters are typically the same values for the P and K, this seems to be so the alkaline Potassium can balance the acidic Phosphorous.

I am only htpothesising and there must be many other considerations to be made but all ferts ingredients seem either acidic ammonium based or alkaline Nitrate based. hence why Calcium Nitrate actually increases soil alkalinity not decreases it. Peace and grow hard
 

JayJayDaStoner

Active Member
As most soils are around 6.3 to 6.8 a true flush would be watered into the soil at approx 6.5. If runoff hits 6.5 then you can reat assured that without applying ferts a deficiency is round the corner.

Your right about getting the pH up to what you want but you also need to monitor the ppm of runoff too. Lets stop fooling ourselves as not overfeeding and adding the right amount of lime to the soil before planting means ZERO pH problems. Is that easy, pH goes down with ferts (Hydrogen ions to be exact and hydronium to be a science geek) and pH goes up with lime (Alkaline ions like calcium and magnesium).

Incedentally most ferts are made of NPK, Nitrogen is split into Ammonical and Nitrate Nitrogen, Ammoniacal is acidic to soil whereas Nitrate is alkaline to soil (only if the plant is healthy and eating because it swaps alkaline ions in the soil to uptake the Nitrate)
Phosphorous is acidic and Pottassium is alkaline. A good fertilizer should have the ability to buffer itself to some degree within these nutrients but an unhealthy plant dose not assimilate the Nitrate and hence its Alkaline value/charge is never released which may be the case that overfeeding lowers nutrient uptake and the ammoniacal nitrogen probably becomes more dominant over the alkaline ions hence low pH.
Again we see why P/K bloom boosters are typically the same values for the P and K, this seems to be so the alkaline Potassium can balance the acidic Phosphorous.

I am only htpothesising and there must be many other considerations to be made but all ferts ingredients seem either acidic ammonium based or alkaline Nitrate based. hence why Calcium Nitrate actually increases soil alkalinity not decreases it. Peace and grow hard
Well I'd say I overfeed so ill cut back will post pics when back at my grow good looking man +rep
 

Tran Dinh

Well-Known Member
you shouldnt have pH probs in amended soil with added dolomite.
In coco the run-off dont matter, only what goes in. I tried compensating for the run-off and got locked-out, proved it to myself and only worry about whats going in.
Im in amended soil now i dont even bother with pH, just add water/.tea/fish/worm tea whatever

feed weekly/weakly

thats a nice nug in your avatar mmmmm
 

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Well I'd say I overfeed
Yer i reckon this is the reason for the pH and what you should address not the actual pH. All info in this thread leads to this fact i hope, pH is a hard subject to debate but easy to just feed right and use runoff to see when to feed next.

In hydro (although apparently nothing to do with soil) we see that as time goes on the nutrient mixs ppm drops and pH rises. To me this is the same as soil, we add fertilizer (which at their most fundamental are salts Calcium Nitrate, Sodium Nitrate, etc etc) and our plant uptakes these ferts/salts so our ppm in runoff will drop i.e. runoff 1400 after feed, two weeks later 800ppm/ pH 6.2 after feed two weeks later 6.3/6.4.

I guess its hard to read in soil but were basically applying the same principles with the soil acting like our hydro resovoir.

Someone shoot me down if im going to far but my understanding is such,

As in hydro a plant might uptake more of one nutrient leaving an extra amount of that particualr nutrient behind in the soil and eventually leading to a toxicity to which point we need to flush or in hydro we would do a res change (as long as not flood to drain but we get the point).

People say hydro aint soil but i see little differences at the base levels and hydro explains it better sometimes with pH and nutrients, soil just makes us think of loads of soil like variables and we cant see through the mud for the water.

People have a sig like all this is make believe and i dont partake in illegal things, possibly all my posts should carry the same sig. Peace
 

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
you shouldnt have pH probs in amended soil with added dolomite.
In coco the run-off dont matter, only what goes in. I tried compensating for the run-off and got locked-out, proved it to myself and only worry about whats going in.
Im in amended soil now i dont even bother with pH, just add water/.tea/fish/worm tea whatever

feed weekly/weakly

thats a nice nug in your avatar mmmmm
Thats what i should have said, damn it for me taking the long way round. Rep++++
 

Tran Dinh

Well-Known Member
Thats what i should have said, damn it for me taking the long way round. Rep++++
in soil there is a symbiotic relationship between microbes and and your plant/roots
In well amended soil your plant only takes what it needs, theres no way of forcing food into roots.

feed the soil, not your plants

bongsmilie
 

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
in soil there is a symbiotic relationship between microbes and and your plant roots
Yes but feed too much organic nutrients and that symbiotic relationship tips towards the microbes as they multiply in numbers to produce more salts than the plant can handle hence growing in straight chicken poop aint the best idea.

In well amended soil your plant only takes what it needs, theres no way of forcing food into roots

feed the soil, not your plants

bongsmilie
But there is a way of osmotically tipping the balance so the plant actually starts to loose turgidity and water through the difference in the high salt osmotic soil and low salt root region.

I only feed my soil and the soil likes. Peace
 

dp sux

New Member
ummm I would say whats your ppm run off cause if the plants using more water the nutes it will drop the ph...........Can you check that real quick?? If all that reads fine (below 1400 or so) I would ph up to around 8 like you were thinkin see how it goe in 24 hrs when you check run off again
 

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
ummm I would say whats your ppm run off cause if the plants using more water the nutes it will drop the ph...........Can you check that real quick??
I like this point mucho for soil, this too is a common hydro thing, dose this indicate somthing when the plants drinking more water than nutes? Peace
 

JayJayDaStoner

Active Member
you shouldnt have pH probs in amended soil with added dolomite.
In coco the run-off dont matter, only what goes in. I tried compensating for the run-off and got locked-out, proved it to myself and only worry about whats going in.
Im in amended soil now i dont even bother with pH, just add water/.tea/fish/worm tea whatever

feed weekly/weakly

thats a nice nug in your avatar mmmmm
Yeah I was kinda wondering if it was a big deal cause my oldest looks really nice ill post pics in a bit
 

Tran Dinh

Well-Known Member
Yes but feed too much organic nutrients and that symbiotic relationship tips towards the microbes as they multiply in numbers to produce more salts than the plant can handle hence growing in straight chicken poop aint the best idea.



But there is a way of osmotically tipping the balance so the plant actually starts to loose turgidity and water through the difference in the high salt osmotic soil and low salt root region.

I only feed my soil and the soil likes. Peace

in soil there is a symbiotic relationship between microbes and and your plant/roots
In well amended soil your plant only takes what it needs, theres no way of forcing food into roots.

feed the soil, not your plants

nice kingrow +rep
 
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