Organic compost tea burn??

Ok guys im stumped on this one. Im an experienced grower who just switched from hydro to fully organic soil (indoor). My plants are 3 weeks old and have declined over the last 24 hrs. Details as follows

Lights: t5 ho 6500k 18" away
Temps- 73-77 day; 73 night
Rh: 45%-55%
Soil: roots organics 707
Pots: 16oz solo cups
Feeding: boogie brew compost tea. Alternated dilute AACT(200-300ppm,7.0ph) and pure ro water for first two weeks of seedlings lives, gave water as needed when pots felt light. Upon 5th node compost tea upped to 400 ppm. Foliar twice a week alternating neem oil and dilute aact.

A couple things i should mention. Upon taking someones advice that u should plant seedlings in the soil they will grow in, i planted into roots organics 707 off the bat. About a week in i notices plants losing their glow. I watered w pure ro water and check runoff ppm was high 1300 and ph was 6.1. I immediately flushed til runoff was around 200-300 and ph leveled at 6.5. Plants seemed to recover nicely. About a week later(now) i noticed vigorous veg growth starting so i fed aact at 780ppm ph7.1. Runoff- 900ppm 6.5ph The plants seemed to love it for the next 24-36 hours so i dropped the lights down to about 12" above the canopy, anticipating vigorous veg growth, and went to bed. Next day i awoke to most of the plants were just starting to yellow and lose their glow. And also a little wilting. they started to wilt and yellow rapidly over the next 12 hrs. Some necrotic patched developing as i type. . I watered a few of them w pute ro just to check runoff and it was 340ppm 6.5 ph. Not sure if i burnt them w aact but i heard thats impossible. Or did I previously flush all the nutes out and now they got deficiencies? How could they have deficiencies if the last aact feeding is still moist in the soil right at this moment? Idk what to think right now except how i miss my dwc setup. Please forgive me but im having probs uploading pics ill keep trying to upload them

well, let's see, where to begin...
if you had hydro down pat, you probably should stick with it. No offense but stick with what works. dwc provides rapid growth, much faster than soil when it's done right.
I don't think roots soil needs anything, proven by your 1300 runoff. what you should have done is gets the plants to grow in seedling soil, which is potting soil without much fertilizer added. FFOF and roots are designed for more mature plants, probably to be transplanted into these soils when the plants are about 10 inches tall or so, but I'm sure there are people out there that might disagree. This is why the FF company makes the light warrior soil, you're suppose to pop seeds in that, let them grow some, then transplant. As far as your condition now, I'd say you're overdoing it on the ferts, between adding to the soil and foliar. I always tell people not to foliar feed as it seems like this plant doesn't tolerate it too well, but I'm sure there are people that will disagree with that too. So to attempt a fix, I would not feed ferts, at least for a while, like a week or so and see how it does. don't foliar feed because it puts ferts in to the leaves very quickly on top of using soil that already has fert in it. also, your light might be too close as the necrosis, the dead brown spotting, is possibly due to the heat of the light, so move the light up some. it could be that the necrosis is nutrient-derived, but without a pic or two it's hard to tell. so to be safe, move the light up some. you don't need to focus on runoff or pH. allow the soil to be what it is, don't try to over control the grow, get the plants a chance to do their thing, water soil when it's dry.

Your PPM is way too high at the stage of growth in soil.This is not hydro.

Plain water a few times. They won't starve. Trust me.

hotrodharley said:

Your PPM is way too high at the stage of growth in soil.This is not hydro.

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340ppm is too high for a 3 week old plant?

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polishpollack said:

well, let's see, where to begin...
if you had hydro down pat, you probably should stick with it. No offense but stick with what works. dwc provides rapid growth, much faster than soil when it's done right.
I don't think roots soil needs anything, proven by your 1300 runoff. what you should have done is gets the plants to grow in seedling soil, which is potting soil without much fertilizer added. FFOF and roots are designed for more mature plants, probably to be transplanted into these soils when the plants are about 10 inches tall or so, but I'm sure there are people out there that might disagree. This is why the FF company makes the light warrior soil, you're suppose to pop seeds in that, let them grow some, then transplant. As far as your condition now, I'd say you're overdoing it on the ferts, between adding to the soil and foliar. I always tell people not to foliar feed as it seems like this plant doesn't tolerate it too well, but I'm sure there are people that will disagree with that too. So to attempt a fix, I would not feed ferts, at least for a while, like a week or so and see how it does. don't foliar feed because it puts ferts in to the leaves very quickly on top of using soil that already has fert in it. also, your light might be too close as the necrosis, the dead brown spotting, is possibly due to the heat of the light, so move the light up some. it could be that the necrosis is nutrient-derived, but without a pic or two it's hard to tell. so to be safe, move the light up some. you don't need to focus on runoff or pH. allow the soil to be what it is, don't try to over control the grow, get the plants a chance to do their thing, water soil when it's dry.

Click to expand...

polishpollack said:

well, let's see, where to begin...
if you had hydro down pat, you probably should stick with it. No offense but stick with what works. dwc provides rapid growth, much faster than soil when it's done right.
I don't think roots soil needs anything, proven by your 1300 runoff. what you should have done is gets the plants to grow in seedling soil, which is potting soil without much fertilizer added. FFOF and roots are designed for more mature plants, probably to be transplanted into these soils when the plants are about 10 inches tall or so, but I'm sure there are people out there that might disagree. This is why the FF company makes the light warrior soil, you're suppose to pop seeds in that, let them grow some, then transplant. As far as your condition now, I'd say you're overdoing it on the ferts, between adding to the soil and foliar. I always tell people not to foliar feed as it seems like this plant doesn't tolerate it too well, but I'm sure there are people that will disagree with that too. So to attempt a fix, I would not feed ferts, at least for a while, like a week or so and see how it does. don't foliar feed because it puts ferts in to the leaves very quickly on top of using soil that already has fert in it. also, your light might be too close as the necrosis, the dead brown spotting, is possibly due to the heat of the light, so move the light up some. it could be that the necrosis is nutrient-derived, but without a pic or two it's hard to tell. so to be safe, move the light up some. you don't need to focus on runoff or pH. allow the soil to be what it is, don't try to over control the grow, get the plants a chance to do their thing, water soil when it's dry.

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Ive never given them fert. Only aact( boogie brew) which according to everyone on earth, u cant burn em with. Also ive only given em full strength tea once in 3 weeks. And the runoff was 900 ppm (most recent watering). I just gave a few some plain water and the runoff was 340ppm. How was it 900, now 340, w no watering in between? Did the plants eat up 560ppm worth of nutes?as for foliar, u think 1 part- 200ppm dilute aact; to 5 parts h20 is too strong for foliar?? The ppm of the foliar spray was less than 100 ppm. Prob less than 50

Im on my iphone and it wnt let me upload pics. Its all i have at this location

After the full strenth aact feed the plants looked great for the next 24-36 hrs. Do u think the plant would have shown signs of toxicity sooner than 36 hours? Also i awoke this morning to see the plants condition has worsened

apbx720 said:

After the full strenth aact feed the plants looked great for the next 24-36 hrs. Do u think the plant would have shown signs of toxicity sooner than 36 hours? Also i awoke this morning to see the plants condition has worsened

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Also i might add that the smaller runt seedlings that are on their 2nd or 3rd node are healthy and seem unaffected by whatevers causing this sickness, as they were given the same feeding as the rest of the plants. This also makes me think im dealing w a deficiency instead of a toxicity. Opinions??

soil too hot. seedling should not need to be fed til at least week 4.

I would gently remove from cups, remove excess soil and gently release roots from soil and replant is clean soilless mix.

if you stay on current path it will be weeks and weeks of waiting for the roots to reestablish

Please help guys. Im tryna be patient but as an experienced grower i can see that the condition is getting worse. Its not horrible yet, but it will be if i cant fix this now. I wish i could post pics but it wnt let me. The plants look like they are transpiring( perked leaves reaching for light) but they are slowly starting to wilt more. The ones that look the worst are wilty. They dnt look too much like nute burn, just yellowing and developing necrotic spots on lower leaves (almost looks like P deficiency). Some have rust spots on margins and a general yellowing(Mg def?). Others have yellowing and red leaf stems, veins, and petrioles (K def?) which were green before all this. Please help. The lil devil on my shoulder is starting to wisper "fuck organic, fuck soil, go back to synthetic earth destroying nutes" and im starting to listen.

Up pot them and don't feed until they are hungry.

Yes you can burn with tea. I burnt mine.

Also neem can burn plants.
I would say root bound in those cups.

Velvet Elvis said:

soil too hot. seedling should not need to be fed til at least week 4.

I would gently remove from cups, remove excess soil and gently release roots from soil and replant is clean soilless mix.

if you stay on current path it will be weeks and weeks of waiting for the roots to reestablish

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Elvis already helped you!!!

youre locked out man. youre nothing but a hound dog!

Velvet Elvis said:

Elvis already helped you!!!

youre locked out man. youre nothing but a hound dog!

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neem oil on sedlings? man some of yall new growers just need to start with walmart soil and straight water, and slowly learn what each product does one at a time???!!!

Velvet Elvis said:

soil too hot. seedling should not need to be fed til at least week 4.

I would gently remove from cups, remove excess soil and gently release roots from soil and replant is clean soilless mix.

if you stay on current path it will be weeks and weeks of waiting for the roots to reestablish

Click to expand...

Even with current runoff at 340ppm thats still too hot??

Velvet Elvis said:

neem oil on sedlings? man some of yall new growers just need to start with walmart soil and straight water, and slowly learn what each product does one at a time???!!!

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I think i clearly remember stating that im not a new grower. Ive grown successfully over the past 5 years in dwc. I had to switch to organic soil for reasons i wish not to discuss. Dilute neem was never a problem before when i used it on young plants.

I would also say you are root bound in those cups

apbx720 said:

Even with current runoff at 340ppm thats still too hot??

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5 nodes is pushing a solo cup. You have several problems. First, root bound. Up pot them. Second, you are feeding to hot. Up pot and then the new soil will feed. Third, Neem, it is an oil. If applied to heavy and while lights are on you will burn the hell out of your plants. No neem unless there is a bug problem.

Up pot them things with fresh dirt, water and leave them alone for a while.

Yes i feel they may be starting to get root bound. My concern w transplanting is that the only soil i have (roots organics 707) may be too hot still. Very dilute neem was given as a preventative after i noticed a few fungus gnats. Applied during lights off. And yes I understand that fungus gnats may be a sign of overwatering. But these gnats were present in the roots organics 707 right when i opened the fresh bag