Organic Earth Juice Nutrients - Plant Problems

ComfortCreator · Jul 23, 2021

Yadam said:
thanks for all the help. I’m going to make a tea today and try adding a little more meta-k when they’re ready a few days after the tea/ewc. I’ll follow up to share if it worked.

Having read the thread I'm confused how you decided to add more K. You have an obvious problem and are looking to add a supplement vs getting your feed on track?

Dont take action until you are almost certain of the path to take. This sounds like a guess, no offense. You need to KNOW what to do or if not, go to the very basics as drysift and some others suggest.

Yadam · Jul 23, 2021

Richard Drysift said:
Stop ph adjusting stuff just water as needed for awhile

Here’s the best tea recipe known to man:
2 cups ewc
3+ gal clean water
1 tbspln kelp meal
1 tsp molassess
Bubble vigorously for 24-36 hrs and serve immediately

hey you said to stop using ph for a while. Is there a range when I should? For example reading below 5.0 use up, or over 7.5 use down? When I bubble for a day or two I’ll sometimes see the ph around 8. Should I ph down in the instances?

Yadam · Jul 23, 2021

ComfortCreator said:
I also think the meta K looks like its causing problems.

I will also add I tried EJ a few times as an add to an organic grow and really didn't like it. I cat recall the ph but it was crazy low, 4 or 5, and f that sxxx if doing organic it shouldn't be that hard. It also stank bad.

Several other options for organic nutes I would switch. Something simple i.e. veg, bloom, maybe some calmag if needed or with you RO.

thank you! What other organic nutrients would you recommend? And yeah EJs grow smells really bad.

myke · Jul 23, 2021

To speed up the curve try different things on ea plant.Record what you did and youll know in a weeks time.

Yadam · Jul 23, 2021

ComfortCreator said:
Having read the thread I'm confused how you decided to add more K. You have an obvious problem and are looking to add a supplement vs getting your feed on track?

Dont take action until you are almost certain of the path to take. This sounds like a guess, no offense. You need to KNOW what to do or if not, go to the very basics as drysift and some others suggest.

yeah you are right. I like the idea of using the ewc tea, then going with only EJs Grow, Bloom, and cal/mag for a few more weeks switching to only bloom and a little cal/mag for the last 3 to 4 weeks. I’ll try removing the k first before I think about adding it back.

ComfortCreator · Jul 23, 2021

Yadam said:
yeah you are right. I like the idea of using the ewc tea, then going with only EJs Grow, Bloom, and cal/mag for a few more weeks switching to only bloom and a little cal/mag for the last 3 to 4 weeks. I’ll try removing the k first before I think about adding it back.

You are gonna fix this just keep investigating before taking action. From EJs site:

"
41. DURING THE VEGETATIVE PERIOD I WAS USING 1 TBSP. OF EARTH JUICE GROW + ½ TSP OF XATALYST AND THE PLANT’S LEAVES WERE GREEN. DURING FLOWERING I’M FEEDING AT EARTH JUICE GROW ½ TBSP. + EARTH JUICE BLOOM 1 TBSP. + XATALYST ½ TSP AND NOW SEEING YELLOWING OF THE LOWER LEAVES?
For large aggressive plants in proper high lighting levels or full sunlight, try increasing the Earth Juice Grow to 1 Tbsp. and decrease the Earth Juice Bloom to ½ Tbsp. per gallon of water. Another option: Every other or every third feeding only use Earth Juice Grow at 1.5-2 Tbsp. per gallon of water. To improve both greening and flowering, include Earth Juice Microblast.

29. DO I NEED TO ADD CALCIUM WHEN USING EARTH JUICE GROW & BLOOM?
Earth Juice Grow contains approximately 1-2% Ca. Earth Juice Bloom approximately 4-5% Ca.

14. I MIXED A SOLUTION USING THE EARTH JUICE ORIGINAL FORMULAS “ADVANCED CHART” AND MY PH IS 3.90?
Earth Juice will work in harmony with the medium and self adjust.
Since 1991, the mass majority of gardeners – including us – who use the Earth Juice Original formulas simply mix with water and use without adjusting the pH.
The initial pH of Earth Juice Original formulas will generally be on the mild acidic side. This is primarily due to the natural extracts, phyto-acids and protein (amino) acids contained in Earth Juice formulas. Earth Juice will self-adjust as it breaks down in the medium. In general terms: primarily by releasing naturally chelated Calcium along with Potassium and natural occurring beneficials. These various elements will aid in buffering the natural and beneficial phyto-acids (weak acids).
If you prefer to adjust the pH prior to using here are several suggestions or options:

Always mix with potable Tap Water and use a high-quality professional planting mix that contains pH adjusters: lime, dolomite, oyster shell, etc.
Aerate the solution for 12-24 hours. After the aeration period, if the solution exhibits an increase in the pH, do not adjust and use as-is. If there is no increase in the pH, adjust to the desired pH and use. For the next mix, prior to the aeration process, adjust the pH to 4.5 followed by aerating for 12-24 hours. After this period, if there is no increase in pH, adjust to desired pH and use.
Add, with caution, a liming material to the medium: dolomite, oyster shell, etc.
See the Earth Juice “Advanced Plus” chart. The initial pH using the “Advanced Plus” chart will generally be a bit higher.
Try a partial substitution of Earth Juice Big Bloomin’ Guano for proportions of the Earth Juice Bloom. Example: 1 tsp/gal Earth Juice Bloom + 3 tsp/gal Big Bloomin’ Guano. Use Big Bloomin’ Guano during the Vegetative period at 1-3 tsp/gal.
To keep it easy without any worries, use Amazon Bloom as your medium and follow the Amazon Bloom “Keep It Simple” chart."

ComfortCreator · Jul 23, 2021

Yadam said:
thank you! What other organic nutrients would you recommend? And yeah EJs grow smells really bad.

I have found BioThrive to work just fine and is simple. But I am not a nute grower I have it on hand for a sudden need or for vegetables around the garden. Others will have more informed organic nute options.

Richard Drysift · Jul 23, 2021

Yadam said:
hey you said to stop using ph for a while. Is there a range when I should? For example reading below 5.0 use up, or over 7.5 use down? When I bubble for a day or two I’ll sometimes see the ph around 8. Should I ph down in the instances?

I say to stop ph-ing everything altogether; forever. Don’t even bother to check it at all; the composition of the soil itself is what regulates ph in an organic grow. Adjusting whatever inputs are going in will not change the actual ph at the root zone. If you simply add back active organic materials regularly the ph should stay inside the proper range for absorption; that’s why you keep adjusting ph yet your plants continue to look worse. You need a decent quality soil probe to check the actual ph in the root zone and it can vary from one sector to the other.
Mycorrhizae is the natural way to improve absorption; can move nutrients and moisture wherever it is needed. In the future use granular myco at each transplant and add natural ph buffers like crushed oyster shell flour in the mix globally to regulate ph at the root zone.

Yadam · Jul 27, 2021

Richard Drysift said:
I say to stop ph-ing everything altogether; forever. Don’t even bother to check it at all; the composition of the soil itself is what regulates ph in an organic grow. Adjusting whatever inputs are going in will not change the actual ph at the root zone. If you simply add back active organic materials regularly the ph should stay inside the proper range for absorption; that’s why you keep adjusting ph yet your plants continue to look worse. You need a decent quality soil probe to check the actual ph in the root zone and it can vary from one sector to the other.
Mycorrhizae is the natural way to improve absorption; can move nutrients and moisture wherever it is needed. In the future use granular myco at each transplant and add natural ph buffers like crushed oyster shell flour in the mix globally to regulate ph at the root zone.

hey thanks man. Can you recommend a good soil probe? I’ve looked at blue lab, but the reviews I read varied a lot so I didn’t pull the trigger.

also with the oyster shells, how much would I add per gallon of soil/perlite?

Richard Drysift · Jul 27, 2021

I recommend not buying one. It’s only worth the investment IMO if you plan to mix up a shit-ton of soil from scratch. Could see spending the money only if you planned to later sell the mix for ROI. The reason you hear mixed reviews is because every inch of a given soil mix can fluctuate in ph values which doesn’t really help you much if your plants are not absorbing the full range of nutrients. You will know it when your mix is back on track again; the plants themselves are a good indicator of absorption issues. As long as you keep your soil mix highly active with compost and mineral content the ph will regulate itself.
I add in about a handful of crushed oyster shell flour to each final bloom pot. That’s as much as I can grab without it falling out; maybe about a cup and 1/2. No need to be deadly accurate. Diversity of inputs is more important than ratios/quantities; add in lots if different things in small amounts. I prefer to layer my final size containers so underneath I start with a base of recycled soil and a handful or two of chicken manure along with a copious amount of fresh ewc. Then the oyster shell on top of that; a thin layer of soil to separate the layers and then I add some granular mycorrhizae which will do more for your overall plants health than anything else. Place the root ball directly on top of the myco and fill it all in; top with even more ewc and mulch it. Instead of a probe I suggest to save your money and invest in a copy of this book:
True Living Organics by The Rev

Rozgreenburn · Jul 27, 2021

Yes, follow the advise from Richard Drysift, and the book he mentioned worked great for me. As you get more comfortable with living soil, you can start making adjustments if you wish. Pointer here, when you make adjustments, only do 1 change at a time or you won't know what is or isn't working. Once you get dialed in, organics is nearly foolproof! Grow on...

Yadam · Jul 28, 2021

Richard Drysift said:
I recommend not buying one. It’s only worth the investment IMO if you plan to mix up a shit-ton of soil from scratch. Could see spending the money only if you planned to later sell the mix for ROI. The reason you hear mixed reviews is because every inch of a given soil mix can fluctuate in ph values which doesn’t really help you much if your plants are not absorbing the full range of nutrients. You will know it when your mix is back on track again; the plants themselves are a good indicator of absorption issues. As long as you keep your soil mix highly active with compost and mineral content the ph will regulate itself.
I add in about a handful of crushed oyster shell flour to each final bloom pot. That’s as much as I can grab without it falling out; maybe about a cup and 1/2. No need to be deadly accurate. Diversity of inputs is more important than ratios/quantities; add in lots if different things in small amounts. I prefer to layer my final size containers so underneath I start with a base of recycled soil and a handful or two of chicken manure along with a copious amount of fresh ewc. Then the oyster shell on top of that; a thin layer of soil to separate the layers and then I add some granular mycorrhizae which will do more for your overall plants health than anything else. Place the root ball directly on top of the myco and fill it all in; top with even more ewc and mulch it. Instead of a probe I suggest to save your money and invest in a copy of this book:
True Living Organics by The Rev

thank you! This is really helpful.

waktoo · Jul 28, 2021

Yadam said:
Hi There, I tried posting this in the plant problems forum, but it was recommended that I try here because i'm using Earth Juice organic nutrients.

I keep having issues in flower. Every day my plants are looking worse and worse. I’m using Earth Juice Big 5 nutrients in a 2x4 tent. I have a HLG 260w 648 diablo light 24” above the plants. I originally thought this was light stress but I’ve dimmed my lights just below half way measuring around 22,000 lux and every morning the plants look worse and worse. Temps are between 77 and 80 during day and night, so it's not heat stress. I tried adding about a half gram of epsom salt per gallon to my last feeding and did an epsom foliar spray, but extra mag hasn’t worked.

I’m feeding the earth juice nutrients with every feeding per the instructions at a ph between 6.3 and 6.5. I’m entering my third week of flower and the plants will drink between 1.5 and 2L each, every 2nd or third day depending on how wet the soil is.

I'm following the instructions on the Earth Juice bottles i'm mixing about 4gals at a time using the combinations below;

All these amounts are the totals i put in about 4 gal of RO water.
2 Tablespoons Grow
2 Tablespoons Bloom
4 Teaspoons Mirco
4 Teaspoons Xatalyst
2 Teaspoons Meta-K
1 Tablespoon Cal/mag
1 Tablespoon Liquid Seaweed

I'm also aerating the nutrients at least over night to naturally bring the PH up.

Feeding every other day or every third day. I'll feed 500ml to each plant, wait 15 to 20 min then keep going until I see the plant saucers start to fill up. Usually it's been between 1L and 1.5L per plant.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I’m spending a lot of time on these ladies and they’re not showing any love back.

Soil temperature is really important for proper microbial nutrient cycling and plant root nutrient adsorption.

Is your tent in a well insulated room? Is it sitting on a tile or concrete floor? Are your pots in direct contact with the tent bottom?

Are you able to test your soil temperature?

Yadam · Jul 28, 2021

Richard Drysift said:
I recommend not buying one. It’s only worth the investment IMO if you plan to mix up a shit-ton of soil from scratch. Could see spending the money only if you planned to later sell the mix for ROI. The reason you hear mixed reviews is because every inch of a given soil mix can fluctuate in ph values which doesn’t really help you much if your plants are not absorbing the full range of nutrients. You will know it when your mix is back on track again; the plants themselves are a good indicator of absorption issues. As long as you keep your soil mix highly active with compost and mineral content the ph will regulate itself.
I add in about a handful of crushed oyster shell flour to each final bloom pot. That’s as much as I can grab without it falling out; maybe about a cup and 1/2. No need to be deadly accurate. Diversity of inputs is more important than ratios/quantities; add in lots if different things in small amounts. I prefer to layer my final size containers so underneath I start with a base of recycled soil and a handful or two of chicken manure along with a copious amount of fresh ewc. Then the oyster shell on top of that; a thin layer of soil to separate the layers and then I add some granular mycorrhizae which will do more for your overall plants health than anything else. Place the root ball directly on top of the myco and fill it all in; top with even more ewc and mulch it. Instead of a probe I suggest to save your money and invest in a copy of this book:
True Living Organics by The Rev

hey apologies I thought of a couple questions reading through your post again.

With your soil mixture do you add any additional organic nutrients in veg or flower?

You mentioned adding oyster shells to your flowering pots, do you put any in the veg container? Is your soil mixture similar for veg?

Also what do you typically use for mulch?

Thanks again for taking time out of your day to help me out!

Yadam · Jul 28, 2021

waktoo said:
Soil temperature is really important for proper microbial nutrient cycling and plant root nutrient adsorption.

Is your tent in a well insulated room? Is it sitting on a tile or concrete floor? Are your pots in direct contact with the tent bottom?

Are you able to test your soil temperature?

My tent is in an unused laundry room with hot air being blown out of the dryer vent. The room is only a little larger than my tent and doesn’t have an AC vent, however I leave the door open with a fan blowing AC from the other room. I also have a 4” intake fan coming in around pot level with the AC air from the room next door.

I run my lights at night with a high temp of around 82F at the canopy. I imagine the pot level would be a little cooler. When the plants are sleeping during the day temps are between 77 and 78F.

From what I’ve read 82F might be a little warm during lights on, but I also have two of those CO2 mushroom bags in my 2x4 tent. With the extra CO2 I should be able to push my temps up to 85F, but then again I’m having some plant problems.

waktoo · Jul 28, 2021

Yadam said:
My tent is in an unused laundry room with hot air being blown out of the dryer vent. The room is only a little larger than my tent and doesn’t have an AC vent, however I leave the door open with a fan blowing AC from the other room. I also have a 4” intake fan coming in around pot level with the AC air from the room next door.

I run my lights at night with a high temp of around 82F at the canopy. I imagine the pot level would be a little cooler. When the plants are sleeping during the day temps are between 77 and 78F.

From what I’ve read 82F might be a little warm during lights on, but I also have two of those CO2 mushroom bags in my 2x4 tent. With the extra CO2 I should be able to push my temps up to 85F, but then again I’m having some plant problems.

Well, I'm suggesting that you test your soil temperature. You've got a funky setup going on.

Soil is dense, and doesn't absorb heat readily from the air, especially when your canopy is thick and can't absorb any radiant heat from direct exposure to lamp light. And your lights are off now for half the day. Didn't you mention that these issues occur after the switch to flower?

If you can determine the night time low temperature of your soil compared to the day time high temperature of the soil, you can at least eliminate one factor that may be responsible for the issues you're experiencing.

myke · Jul 28, 2021

I assume the vent fan runs 24/7 to control smell? those mushroom c02 bags do anything ? Do u have a meter to check C02 levels?

Richard Drysift · Jul 28, 2021

Stoner Jesus knows what’s up

Yadam said:
hey apologies I thought of a couple questions reading through your post again.

With your soil mixture do you add any additional organic nutrients in veg or flower?

You mentioned adding oyster shells to your flowering pots, do you put any in the veg container? Is your soil mixture similar for veg?

Also what do you typically use for mulch?

Thanks again for taking time out of your day to help me out!

My soil mix is just FFOF that has been recycled and amended over and over. I don’t give much if anything to the plants in bloom unless they begin to fade early but that is because the final size containers are built in with fertilizer and spikes. I use 2-3 Jobes organic spikes in each container which feeds for about 8 weeks. If they look pale I give Neptune’s harvest liquid fish w/seaweed but usually giving an aactea once or twice and a simple top dressing during the bloom cycle is enough to get them through to ripening. All plants get diluted worm leacheate regularly; flows directly from the worm bin.
I don’t put anything extra in the veg pots but my soil is also fully amended with a slew of different inputs and worm castings. Many times all I need to add for veg is some d-lime, ewc, and a little chicken manure; Charlie’s compost brand. It sits in a tote bin until needed. The oyster shell flour layered in for flowering takes a real long time to break down so there’s plenty of it still in the mix after recycling; some things can take years to fully break down. For seeds or clones I use straight un-amended soil from an old root ball w/ EWC added.
For mulch I prefer straw cuz it’s cheap but any kind of a top layer that helps retain moisture will work. Pine bark nuggets, canna-leaves, shredded paper, and perlite are also good mulch. Sprinkle on some diatomaceous earth to quell any gnats that are attracted to the compost.

Yadam · Jul 29, 2021

myke said:
I assume the vent fan runs 24/7 to control smell? those mushroom c02 bags do anything ? Do u have a meter to check C02 levels?

i have a 6” filter on one side of the tent and the mushroom bags on the other. Honestly I don’t know about the mushroom bags, but I figured it couldn’t hurt for $25 a bag. And I like to support the Detroit area even though I’ve been removed from NW Ohio / SE Michigan for a while now. Here’s the link if you want to give them a shot.

Co2 Emitting Mushroom Kit

Complete CO2 Booster Makes Plants Happy Lab Tested Carbon Dioxide Booster Made Easy

michiganmushroomco.com

Yadam · Aug 4, 2021

myke said:
You gotta start some trial and error I guess,looks like you got a few plants.Youve ruled out light burn already.
Potassium deficiency is what it looks like,you dont see green veins though but whatever.Too high ph can cause K deficiency.Over watering can also do this.
Looking at EJ site didnt see anything about organics?Can you measure your feed with a ppm meter?Be nice to know where you stand strength wise.

hey I checked my PPMs yesterday before feeding and I was around 500. Definitely low for synthetics, but for organics I’m not sure how much it matters.

Organic Earth Juice Nutrients - Plant Problems

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