Organic issue

Hey guys My plants leaf tips going light green and yellow, I'm organic use rain water, and brew tea with kelp, microbe powder, black strap masses and sometimes charge. What is the cause? Overwatering or pH levels come to mind or maybe a magnesium defincey ? Any help would appreciate it guys also the leaves some are twisting
 

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kratos015

Well-Known Member
Hey guys My plants leaf tips going light green and yellow, I'm organic use rain water, and brew tea with kelp, microbe powder, black strap masses and sometimes charge. What is the cause? Overwatering or pH levels come to mind or maybe a magnesium defincey ? Any help would appreciate it guys also the leaves some are twisting
Both can be causing this, or even the minerals in the water itself. Get yourself one of those probes that tells you moisture content and pH levels. Is this happening with all plants, or only some plants? If only specific plants, it could be overwatering, or simply finicky genetics. If it's most of your plants, it's likely a pH issue.

If too moist: Give it a few days for the soil to get back to proper moisture levels. Maintain proper moisture levels for another 3-4 days and see if the issue corrects itself. If this solves the problem, overwatering was the issue.

If pH is wrong: Trickier than the above.

Rainwater is acidic (5.2-5.8pH) but with proper liming, this shouldn't cause pH issues. The problem, however, can be certain minerals in your rainwater that are causing toxicities/lockouts within your soil. If you have confirmed overwatering is not the issue, and pH is not an issue, your water source could be the culprit.

"The pH of rainwater in equilibrium with atmospheric carbon dioxide at 25° C. is 5.7. Barrett and Brodin (1955) consider a pH of 5.7 as the neutral point for atmospheric water, not in a chemical sense, however, but as a reference point from which to discuss changes that may take place by the addition of cations and anions."

"Rainwater is a mixed electrolyte that contains varying amounts of major and minor ions. Sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium, chloride, bicarbonate, and sulfate ions are major constituents, together with ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, nitrogen, and other nitrogenous compounds (Hutchinson, 1957). Minor constituents are iodine, bromine, boron, iron, alumina, and silica. Dust particles are added locally. The sources of these constituents are the oceans, fresh water and saline lakes, landmasses, vegetation, manmade industries, and volcanic emanations."

"However, even if an average rainwater is calculated, as in table 1, the figures show that there is a considerable range in the amounts of the ions present. So many analyses of rainwater now are available studies could introduce errors and unwarranted assumptions."

Source text here

My plan of action would be to test moisture and pH immediately. If your moisture and pH is where it should be, get your water tested and see what the mineral content of the water is. Something in the water could be causing a lockout. If the issue is only on a handful of plants, the issue is likely with finicky genetics and nothing more. Some strains are very temperamental. I'd also stop using the teas, especially with kelp. Kelp is loaded with micronutrients and is something that should only be top dressed with once every 4-6 weeks in minimal amounts. Brewing a tea with it and applying it constantly is asking for trouble, especially if your rainwater is high in minerals/micronutrients and your soil already has some in it. My guess is excess of micronutrients is the issue here.

All the best.
 
Appreciate your reply you really know your stuff! I think you are spot on with excess micronutrients and the tea's. I'll cut back on the watering also I have been drowning them in one go instead of giving little bits of water at a time, would you recommend using rain water or tap water declouranted ? Again many thanks for your help you were bang on
 

kratos015

Well-Known Member
Appreciate your reply you really know your stuff! I think you are spot on with excess micronutrients and the tea's. I'll cut back on the watering also I have been drowning them in one go instead of giving little bits of water at a time, would you recommend using rain water or tap water declouranted ? Again many thanks for your help you were bang on
Happy to help, just a guy that's learned a lot the hard way is all.


"Heavy" watering is something that was often recommended back in the day for "soil" grows using synthetic nutrients. For peat moss/living soil, watering heavy is not what we want to do. The reason being peat moss itself is very hydrophobic. Once it goes dry, you will have dry spots regardless of how heavy you water. So, by the time we "heavily water", parts of the soil will become hydrophobic and will remain dry until the plant is harvested and we are able to freshly "rehydrate" the soil/peat.

With peat moss based living soils, the time for heavily watering is soaking the medium prior to planting anything. The soaking of the soil prior to planting ensures that 100% of the medium is moist. This way, future waterings is simply maintaining moisture/oxygen levels, and not actually "watering", if that makes sense.

The water should constantly be fresh. This is why 30-40% drainage is recommended; the water and, by proxy, oxygen levels for the plant will always remain fresh. Stagnant water is water that has sat for so long is loses it's oxygen, resulting in anaerobic conditions that not only choke your plant's roots out, but bring about many bad guys as well.


What I'd do in your shoes?

tl;dr: Keep track of the moisture levels, and only water to keep proper moisture levels, and no more than that. I would also eliminate teas and kelp meal entirely. The teas especially, as they tend to harm more than help. At best, the teas are a temporary band aid that helps a grower ignore a bigger problem with their soil. Kelp meal is good stuff, in moderation, but tends to lead growers to problems when used in excess.



More info on water:

As for water? Regardless of it being rain or tap, you will need to know what's in it. My vote would be for tap water, but only because you can look up your "Municipal Water District" and get a "Water report" from them on the tap water. Testing the rainwater will take time. And let's say you do test your rainwater, that doesn't mean this batch of rainwater will be the same as the next. A storm blowing over from another state will have different things in the water than a storm brewing exclusively in your town.

I would eliminate the use of teas, and even kelp meal entirely. I don't use rainwater because it isn't consistent, and I cannot guarantee what is in March's rainfall will the the same as August's rainfall. I use whatever is on tap because it is both convenient and consistent. Not to imply I'm talking shit on anyone for using rainwater or RO water, just pointing out how it isn't as convenient nor consistent as simply using the tap water is.

Rather than working against what I have, I find a way to work with it. If I get rainfall, then great, I don't have to water for a while. But I do not rely on rainwater, nor do I store it, but I will certainly use it if it is available.

Most of the soil recipes you see account for people using RO water. The understated part about using RO water is that the RO water has zero minerals, so nothing to fuck with your soil. Most living soil grows fail because many of the recipes you see assume the user is using RO water. But let's be realistic, not all of us use RO water.

The first order of business before growing is to look up your water source and know what it has in it. If your water is alkaline and high in minerals? You may not want all of that rock dust and will want to take it easy on the liming agent, if using one at all. I've had water so alkaline I didn't even need to use lime in my soils to buffer the pH. I've also had water so devoid of anything, I needed to add micronutrients to my soil consistently. It depends on the water source.

If your water has minimal minerals, you will want to supplement your soil with minerals in the form of rock dust and/or kelp. Use your tap water on your next watering, and eliminate the use of teas and kelp meal and see what happens.

A top dressing/application of most micronutrients can be effective on a plant within 24 hours, so there is zero need for us as growers to be so vigilant. It is easier to add something than to subtract it.

All the best, and hope that helps.
 
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