Pre charged Coco

bk78

bk78

Well-Known Member
EvilScotsm@n said:
Fuck off mate. Nothing wrong with any of the growing advice I give out. I told him to check wether it's hard or soft water to determine wether he needs it.
I also told him that in order to not need it you need to buy hard or soft water specific nutes accordingly.
Should try reading posts before kickin off.
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Listen knob gobbler I ain’t your mate and I stand by what I said. Stop giving awful information.
 
jondamon

jondamon

Well-Known Member
EvilScotsm@n said:
It's handy stuff to have like. Helps buffer ph amongst other things. A lot of new growers particularly have a hard time dialing things in. Changing things a lot while they figure it out.
One of the top problems on these forums is calmag dramas in coco. I'm aware of cation exchange etc. Coco does need calmag but nowhere near what people think.
You generally find that people who use lots of it and benefit also have at least one bad habbit. Usually itd not watering it often enough or not enough volume when they do.
Too big a pot is also a common one that has the same effects.
The ph gets shafted and causes lockouts. Looks like mag def.
Adding calmag fixes that by buffering the ph so a lot of folks get convinced they need high levels of it.
When in reality they should be upping the feed volume and being more accurate with ph.
Not saying that's always the case. Each nute brand is made differently and everyone's water is different but a lot of the time it is.
And you need to add quite a bit of calmag to get bad effects from it so it's hard to convince people they don't need as much.
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I would probably agree in part with what you’re saying but to blanket it that nobody actually needs it when it’s not a one solution fits all kind of situation that people find themselves in is a bit closed minded.

Hence why my advice changed once I knew he was using Atami coco.

I feed daily until at least 20% runoff. I use 11L pots to sustain 2-2.5ft tall plants.

I don’t pre buffer my coco, I’m like you in that respect that I just use my Base Nutes to start.

It’s only after around 3 weeks of nothing but veg nutes that I start seeing Ca def symptoms. It has nothing to do with the feeding frequency or volume it has more to do with the CEC and the fact that Coco tends to use Ca and release back K.

I find by increasing Ca and Mg levels In my feeds from that point on that it helps to stabilise the coco for longevity rather than applying a high EC of just CaMg product.

I also then increase Ca and Mg during PK usage as the elevated levels of Ca and Mg help to A) allow the uptake of P and K to be stress free and B) the additional Mg keeps my leaves green til the end.
 
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ifbleaf

Active Member
Calm down. Water every day?? And what about the atami Coco having mineral lime and calcium nitrate?? Not to mention the npk 11:27:08 fertilizer charge in the stuff. They refer to it as about a week of feed. I can see the ever increasing evidence that anything but empty buffered Coco is a fucking inconvenience but I have 5trainwrecks and 1 d'qua stuck in the fucking stuff. I can't remember what the exact ppm was when I measured the run off from watering them last night but it was in the thousands. Naturally I'm a bit hesitant to put more nutes into this until it's dropped a bit.
 
EvilScotsm@n

EvilScotsm@n

Well-Known Member
jondamon said:
I would probably agree in part with what you’re saying but to blanket it that nobody actually needs it when it’s not a one solution fits all kind of situation that people find themselves in is a bit closed minded.

Hence why my advice changed once I knew he was using Atami coco.

I feed daily until at least 20% runoff. I use 11L pots to sustain 2-2.5ft tall plants.

I don’t pre buffer my coco, I’m like you in that respect that I just use my Base Nutes to start.

It’s only after around 3 weeks of nothing but veg nutes that I start seeing Ca def symptoms. It has nothing to do with the feeding frequency or volume it has more to do with the CEC and the fact that Coco tends to use Ca and release back K.

I find by increasing Ca and Mg levels In my feeds from that point on that it helps to stabilise the coco for longevity rather than applying a high EC of just CaMg product.

I also then increase Ca and Mg during PK usage as the elevated levels of Ca and Mg help to A) allow the uptake of P and K to be stress free and B) the additional Mg keeps my leaves green til the end.
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I never said nobody needs it. Read the text man.
 
EvilScotsm@n

EvilScotsm@n

Well-Known Member
bk78 said:
Listen knob gobbler I ain’t your mate and I stand by what I said. Stop giving awful information.
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Aww have I hurt your feelings. There's an awful lot of bitches on this site like. Can't post anything without someone getting but hurt and calling names. Shows a real lack of intelligence when that's your go to.
 
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ifbleaf

Active Member
So to recap. My plants are, I believe having read up on the symptoms, suffering from a calcium deficiency, spots on the leafs, bottom leafs going yellowy white and dying. The cotyl leaves atm. So I am about to administer some magne-cal. I think it would be beneficial
 
jondamon

jondamon

Well-Known Member
EvilScotsm@n said:
If your using tap water you shouldn't need calmag mate.

Find out the ec of your water to determine wether it's soft or hard and buy nutes accordingly.

Lots of companies do both versions to save you pissing about with calmag.


Lots of folk will tell you that you can't grow coco without 1ec+ of it.


Just as many will tell you that ledsake you need even more but here I am.

Coco and leds with soft water at 48ppm so almost r/o quality and I don't need it.


I just soak it in 0.4ec veg nutes and off I go. Never had a single issue.
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this basically says because you don’t need it nobody needs it.

I’ve read the text and separated it out so you can see how many times you say YOU DONT NEED IT.

Yet in another post it’s one of your nutrients that you use.

so which is it? You either need it or you don’t.

I’m not trying to invoke an argument with you but you need to either be consistent that you don’t use it, or tell people the truth that depending upon their situation they may need it.
 
jondamon

jondamon

Well-Known Member
ifbleaf said:
Calm down. Water every day?? And what about the atami Coco having mineral lime and calcium nitrate?? Not to mention the npk 11:27:08 fertilizer charge in the stuff. They refer to it as about a week of feed. I can see the ever increasing evidence that anything but empty buffered Coco is a fucking inconvenience but I have 5trainwrecks and 1 d'qua stuck in the fucking stuff. I can't remember what the exact ppm was when I measured the run off from watering them last night but it was in the thousands. Naturally I'm a bit hesitant to put more nutes into this until it's dropped a bit.
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The thing with coco is that precharged or not it quickly depletes if you’re not feeding it.

my advice on the first page still stands about just feeding for now.
 
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ifbleaf

Active Member
I'm not even going to mention that I have been waiting for Coco to dry like one would with soil b4 watering/feeding. No that's not something I have ever read. .
 
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jondamon

jondamon

Well-Known Member
ifbleaf said:
I'm not even going to mention that I have been waiting for Coco to dry like one would with soil b4 watering/feeding. No that's not something I have ever read. .
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never wait for it to dry out unless you’ve got plants that are less than 2 weeks from seed.

with young plants you want a small amount of wet and dry cycles to promote good root systems.

how old are your plants?
 
jondamon

jondamon

Well-Known Member
ifbleaf said:
They're 3 weeks, 4 from seeds. I'm too old and bin fkn things up for too long
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Based on this information I would suggest

500ppm daily feedings

switch to flower and up your ppm to around 700ppm.

after stretch go back down to 500ppm unless you get lower growth fading.
If you get Lower growth fade then up your ppl for a week of feeding.
 
F

Fevs.

Well-Known Member
I have had lots of joy doing one day of cal mag at 300ppm, which is the 1ml per litre plant magic cal mag.

Then the next day I just feed normal nutes alone at 600ppm. Then swap back each day.

Then last 2 weeks I go with advanced nutrients overdrive at 300ppm, which is 2ml per 1 litre.

This means every 48 hours I am charging the coco. It also means I don't overfeed. Plus I don't get nutes build up. The plants love being fed this way. It's like the cal mag feed the day before helps the plants east yesterdays feeds.

If you let it dry out the coco ph will go tits up... or tits down :D

Or just use canna coco a and b every feed, It's got plenty of extra cal mag in.

Why don't you flush the coco in the shower, then charge it with ph'd cal mag and go from there?
 
EvilScotsm@n

EvilScotsm@n

Well-Known Member
jondamon said:
this basically says because you don’t need it nobody needs it.

I’ve read the text and separated it out so you can see how many times you say YOU DONT NEED IT.

Yet in another post it’s one of your nutrients that you use.

so which is it? You either need it or you don’t.

I’m not trying to invoke an argument with you but you need to either be consistent that you don’t use it, or tell people the truth that depending upon their situation they may need it.
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I use it for about 3 weeks after flip to 12/12 to treat iron def. I buy calmag+ so i have it just in case.
I also grow in reservoirs and I do need use calmag for those. Ph goes a bit mental otherwise so it's go for a buffer.
 
bk78

bk78

Well-Known Member
EvilScotsm@n said:
I use it for about 3 weeks after flip to 12/12 to treat iron def. I buy calmag+ so i have it just in case.
I also grow in reservoirs and I do need use calmag for those. Ph goes a bit mental otherwise so it's go for a buffer.
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So let me get this straight. Your first post you said you don’t use it, but now you do use it?

just another dude who has done more reading then growing i see. stop giving awful information to new growers for the third time.
 
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ifbleaf

Active Member
What about hydrogen peroxide, is there a need for it in Coco. Bearing in mind that the plants were in a soil mix as seedlings ( by mistake) so there is some small source of disease ,yes?
 
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