Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

Discussion in 'Organics' started by headtreep, Mar 21, 2013.

  1.  
    CaptainT

    CaptainT Member

    Found this today at the local garden store www.hopcompost.com. Small batch craft brewed compost from high quality local commercial kitchen scraps. They claim super low contaminate rates. What do you all think? I bought 2 bags so ill be trying it out. That and worm castings should cover me until i can get a compost setup going.
     
    DonTesla likes this.
  2.  
    ShLUbY

    ShLUbY Well-Known Member

    if it looks like it does in the picture... looks pretty bomb! i don't know much about the hop farming industry... if/how they treat their plants against fungus, insects, weed pressure. that would be the thing you'd want to know.
     
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  3.  
    CaptainT

    CaptainT Member

    I was thinking it came from hops too, turns out its actually compost collected from local green business. Everything from juice and oyster bars to coffee houses and restaurants. Their composting process looks interesting aswell. Good marketing anyway, we’ll see how it goes. Im having a tough time finding aeration for my mix. Found some pumice for $8.99 - 3L.......crazy. I have growstones and can get rice hulls but not really the direction i wanted to go. Also got sent 10g fabric pots instead of 15g so debating a 4 - 10g growstone run till summer when pumice is plentiful.
     
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  4.  
    ShLUbY

    ShLUbY Well-Known Member

    you're in Canada i take it? talk to @DonTesla and he can probably point you in the direction of some aeration materials. look for growstone company (it's recycled glass expanded into pumice), diatomite rocks (not powder), biochar, or red lava rock (scoria, which you'll likely have to crush yourself). Stay away from the rice hulls... they suck for drainage IMO. I didn't care for them very much as drainage... better for a mulch :)
     
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  5.  
    hillbill

    hillbill Well-Known Member

    NAPA 8822 FLOORDRY
     
  6.  
    RandomHero8913

    RandomHero8913 Well-Known Member

    Any experience with Optisorb? It’s supposed to be the same as 8822 but in a coarser grade.
     
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  7.  
    hillbill

    hillbill Well-Known Member

    No, never seen it but have used 8822 for years. I use it for grit when icy outdoors. It provides drainage and air spaces but also holds water and nutrients.
     
  8.  
    Magdup

    Magdup Member

    Hi guys. Sorry for crashing here but i m really desperate!! I m now in week 5 of flowering in my first living organics run. I used the 2.1 master mix from the rev s book true living organics and followed this books advice step by step. The water i used was ro water. But my buds are really small and 2 plants are really sick/weak (already loosing their leaves and all the buds are popcorn size). Maybe you have any ideas what has gone wrong because i have no idea. Mabe some major bigenner mistakes i could have made or some key experience you had that you had in your beginning time. This is my second run ever and my 1st living organic as i said and since i totally overwatered my first grow overwatering is the only thing i m sure i didnt. Maybe to less water (i watered once a week but plants showed no sighns of underwatering) if you have any advice or motivation i would be very thankful because at the moment i m so pissed i m about to stop growing.
    Or is living organics to much for beginners and i should start with a more easy methode??
     
  9.  
    RandomHero8913

    RandomHero8913 Well-Known Member

    What’s your lighting situation?
     
  10.  
    Magdup

    Magdup Member

    And sorry for my bad english i hop
    600w mh in veg and 600w hps for bloom.
     
  11.  
    ShLUbY

    ShLUbY Well-Known Member

    organics should be very simple if you have instructions to follow. what's easier than a water only garden? Don't be discouraged. practice makes perfect!

    watered only once a week? 100% guarantee you under watered my friend, and these are the signs you're seeing. when you do water, does it seem to run through the pot as soon as you start pouring it in? if it does... the cause of this is that your medium has become hydrophobic, and while your plants may be getting enough water to not look wilted out, your soil biology is dry as a bone, which means they (organisms) are immobile, and cannot fetch what your plant needs. a friend of mine just experienced this himself, and he had blumat drippers in his container too! but they were dialed to lightly, and everywhere that wasn't within 2 inches of his blumat was dry and crusty. the plant looked great until he tried to give it some more light (LEDs) and when he did that, within days it was showing signs of deficiencies. he called me over, and i assessed the situation and that was what I found. we got her all wet again, and now she's looking great.

    soil biology requires consistent and constant moisture. there should be no runoff when you water with living soil organic grows (unless you mistakenly water too much). your goal should be to never have runoff. runoff leaches away nutrients that aren't getting replaced from regular feedings. your soil should be constantly moist, but not constantly at field capacity (maximum moisture). the reason for this constant moisture is because all living things require water (and remember most living things are made of 70% or more water!), especially those little organisms in your soil. if it goes dry, they go dormant, and the food web stops.

    the sickly looking plants you're seeing are very likely the result of your biology being inactive, nutrients not coming into solution, and your soil not being able to hydrate easily. one thing about peat moss, once it goes dry, it's a bitch to get wet again. it takes slow and steady waterings, sometimes over the course of a couple days to get it rehydrated properly.

    so, scratch around in your soil, is it dry beneath the surface? does it feel crusty anywhere? are your pots very light and easy to pick up? which btw, the lift test is the best and most accurate way to determine soil moisture in my opinion.

    don't stop trying! this isn't a hard thing to do... it just requires practice. and your number one lesson should be, don't wait to ask questions until a problem is so bad that you don't know how to fix it!!!

    i am unfamiliar with the soil recipe that you used. and it's hard to find solutions without things like pictures of your plant or your soil. but this is my gut assessment of your situation. so if what i described sounds like your situation, my first step of action would be to start watering that soil. slowly, get it rehydrated. you may only be able to pour a cup into it at a time every hour or two over the course of the next few days.
     
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  12.  
    Magdup

    Magdup Member

    Thank you very much for your in detail answer. I checked the moisture of my pots 2 days ago and they were dry 4 to 5 cm down so i started slowly watering them( i m very happy right now that i had the right feeling about that :) ). Since i overwatered my first run so hard i probably was way too careful with watering!! I ll try to fix as much as possible with this run and will defenitly do much better next time.
    Thank you so much for your help !!!!!!you are so right i should have asked earlier.
     
  13.  
    ShLUbY

    ShLUbY Well-Known Member

    hindsight is 20/20 :) the easiest mistake to make in organic soil is to not water enough, and it compounds all other problems heavily. do you use plastic or fabric containers? plastic tends to distribute moisture much better than fabric ones do... but plastic also coils roots around the outside edges before they start to fill in the interior of the soil. i prefer fabric over plastic for that reason. when the roots make it to the edge, the tip dries and dies and they start shooting out lateral growth, filling the entire medium. but fabric also require much more frequent waterings due to evaporation.

    also, do you have a mulch down on top of your soil to slow evaporation? anything helps: pumice/perlite, rice hulls, leaves, straw, a circular disc of carboard... anything!
     
  14.  
    Magdup

    Magdup Member

    I
    Use fabric pots and i m mulching with miscanthus.
    Damm it i will have a lot of time to learn about watering since i only do 1 run a year.
     
    ShLUbY likes this.
  15.  
    ShLUbY

    ShLUbY Well-Known Member

    all you need to know is that you should keep it moist and never give it a dry period because peat moss is notorious for getting hydrophobic. if your plants are big and healthy with nice root mass, you'll likely need to water daily. the goal being to never have runoff. usually its the outside circumference of the fabrics that go dry quickly, so be sure to keep that area in particular in your focus. Maybe for next growing season, you can look into a SIP style grow, which keeps the soil at a perfect moisture content with little to no guessing. I bet you'll see fantastic results!
     
  16.  
    Magdup

    Magdup Member

    Whats sip?
     
  17.  
    ShLUbY

    ShLUbY Well-Known Member

    simply, you water from the bottom of the container. there are wicks that pull water from a lower reservoir up into the soil and keep it at a consistent moisture content. so you never water from above, and don't even really have to do much but keep a little reservoir filled. the watering takes care of itself!

    here's the basic idea, and there are many ways to accomplish the same design. if you poke around on the forum, you'll see examples of them



    @DonBrennon and @hyroot have some examples of using SIPs posted on here. they both have DIY threads in the organics forum with examples/pictures of their methods.
     
    hillbill likes this.
  18.  
    Magdup

    Magdup Member

    Great!!! Thank you very much for being so helpful and taking time for my probs!!! i m deffenitly going to look at that stuff.
     
  19.  
    Chunky Stool

    Chunky Stool Well-Known Member

    Constant moisture in organic soil can cause PH problems -- and all the badness that comes with it (lockouts, rot, etc).
    But it really boils down to terminology. What is "wet", and what is "moist"?
    I can tell you from experience that letting organic soil dry out is not the end of the world. In fact, it's the safer option when compared to overwatering.
    If you check your plants regularly (twice a day) and water when they just barely start to wilt, your plants will thrive and have very thick roots that don't spiral around the pot (if you use plastic). Been there, done that. Top dress with fresh worm castings occasionally and you'll be fine. There are also over-the-counter products like 'Microbe Life Photosynthesis Plus' (AKA 'Liquid Ass') that replenish the soil.
    I remove all doubt and just use a moisture probe. If it's less than 5.0, it's time to water.
    Another thing you can do to keep your soil from completely drying out is add calcined clay. I use kitty litter, but hydroton also works (more expensive).
    The clay doesn't hold a lot of moisture, but it holds onto it tightly. In other words, the surrounding soil could by bone dry but there's still a tad of moisture stuck in the clay. It's also VERY porous, so microbes love it.
     
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  20.  
    Chunky Stool

    Chunky Stool Well-Known Member

    But if you use Kitty Litter or that stuff they sell at NAPA (I can't remember the name :dunce:) make sure you filter out the small, sandy particles before adding it to your soil.
    And rinse it first or it will raise PH. (Not good, can cause lockouts.) :o
     
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