Remote Phosphor LED

Hmmmm.....I've been looking at this. And there are some pretty amazing claims. 80% Eff.?
http://www.intematix.com/uploads/datasheets/ChromaLitPCDatasheet.pdf

I'm still looking for more details but the prices are LOW and efficiency is HIGH. What is the catch, I wonder?

Manufacturer Part Number
CL-830-LR-PC
Digi-Key Part Number1079-1005-ND
Price BreakUnit PriceExtended Price
1 = $10.29
10 = $8.72

TypeRemote Phosphor Light Source
Lens Style/SizeRound with Flat Top, 61.5mm
CRI (Color Rendering Index)80
CCT (K)3000
Conversion Efficacy (lm/Wrad)(typ)200
Viewing Angle115°
Online CatalogChromaLit™ Round and Square

I believe SDS was messing with these not too long ago... Wait for it~

They even have a demo kit. But, no datasheet, I've found
.
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?FV=fff40028,fff80257,ffec7175
Manufacturer Part Number
CL-DEMOKIT-2D-PC

But, it is $130 for some reason.

OIC! The $10 Phosphor plate is added atop a "mixing chamber" of Blue LED.

Odder and odder.

Interesting find. I have been thinking it might be useful if thay could come up with a COB that we can swap out the phosphor to change color temp. That would be especially useful if they could develop highly efficient phosphors geared toward each phase of growing or customized for sativa dom/indica dom characteristics.

As far as the efficiency goes, normally we are looking at lumens/W but that is referring to lumens/dissipation W, or total LED power used. The Intematix chart is showing lumens/PAR W of the blue LED, because the actual output will depend on the efficiency of the blue LEDs used.

So for a best case scenario example, if you were to use the best blue LED currently available, a top bin Luxeon ES royal blue N4R bin at 700mA, 60% efficiency with a dissipation of 2W (1.2 PAR W) and you used the CL830 3000K phosphor plate, you would end up with 242.4 lumens or 121.2 lumens/dissipation W, or 37.3% efficiency.

Got it, now. You need the phosphor lens, Royal Blue Emitters, and a mixing chamber with important features such as distance from emitters and shape.

The lens down shift the Blue to Warm White 3000k, for example with very little loss.

$10 - Lens
$20 - 6 emitter pad

Or any Royal Blue emitter.

http://www.digikey.com/en/articles/techzone/2013/apr/royal-blue-leds-decoding-the-datasheet

Here is the way Cree looks at this.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCYQFjAB&url=http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED%20Components%20and%20Modules/XLamp/White%20Papers/Remote%20Phosphor.pdf&ei=bbQRVcmPC9P4yQT95IHYBg&usg=AFQjCNGdSnY9ypi1ZBidkFsO9lJVUli8Ig&sig2=W3ig6VUFYxwKcCfDuciq8Q&bvm=bv.89184060,d.aWw

SupraSPL said:

Interesting find. I have been thinking it might be useful if thay could come up with a COB that we can swap out the phosphor to change color temp. That would be especially useful if they could develop highly efficient phosphors geared toward each phase of growing or customized for sativa dom/indica dom characteristics.

As far as the efficiency goes, we normally start off with lumens/W but we are referring to lumens/dissipation W. The Intematix chart is showing lumens/PAR W because the actual output will depend on the efficiency of the blue LEDs used.

So for a best case scenario example, if you were to use the best blue LED currently available, a top bin Luxeon ES royal blue N4R bin at 700mA, 60% efficiency with a dissipation of 2W (1.2 PAR W) and you used the CL830 3000K phosphor plate, you would end up with 242.4 lumens or 121.2 lumens/dissipation W, or 37.3% efficiency.

View attachment 3379568

Click to expand...

Right. Where are 40w Royal Blues?

Good point, we have 72% efficient white COBs and they are made from royal blue COBs that are probably 80% efficient. If we could get our hands on something like that, you could use the remote phosphor system to achieve:

CXA3590 royal blue COB @ 200mA = 13.28 dissipation W, 80% efficient, 10.624 PAR. With remote phosphor CL750 cool white, that would yield 2443.5 lumens or 184 lumens/W, 56.8% efficiency.

However, using that same COB as a Cree cool white top bin, we get 72.16% efficiency.

I found these 5w stars that look pretty good. But, then we are back to wiring at 5w granularity..
http://elite-ent.com.hk/upload/0707271107195W_PG1X-5LDS_v2.5.pdf

SupraSPL said:

Good point, we have 72% efficient white COBs and they are made from royal blue COBs that are probably 80% efficient. If we could get our hands on something like that, you could use the remote phosphor system to achieve:

CXA3590 royal blue COB @ 200mA = 13.28 dissipation W, 80% efficient, 10.624 PAR. With remote phosphor CL750 cool white, that would yield 2443.5 lumens or 184 lumens/W, 56.8% efficiency.

However, using that same COB as a Cree cool white top bin, we get 72.16% efficiency.

Click to expand...

Isn't it just a non-remote phosphor layer? How to get that off the COB and leave the underlaying array?

Hmm I think that Pro Light Opto datasheet may have an error, according to those figures their top bin is only 14.6% efficient at Tj25C. Even the cheapest royal blues have a much higher efficiency.

Doer said:

Isn't it just a non-remote phosphor layer? How to get that off the COB and leave the underlay array?

Click to expand...

We would just need to Cree to manufacture them with no phosphor layer.

Or find a good solvent? Probably epoxy matrix, alas, by they look of the burned out ones.

SupraSPL said:

However, using that same COB as a Cree cool white top bin, we get 72.16% efficiency.

Click to expand...

I need to build one of these. It would be an awesome light for veg.

From the Cree Itself, (all luminance be)

Conclusion
We have demonstrated an actual usage comparison of integrated white LEDs vs. remote-phosphor systems in both downlight and omni-directional bulb applications. Our results show that remote-phosphor systems can provide light output gains of 20 percent in a high flux, high temperature environment with a more stable system color point compared to white LEDs; however, these gains in performance come at a very high cost as the cost of phosphor—especially in the warm white color region—is extremely expensive, even surpassing the cost of additional white LEDs to make up the light output gain. Additionally, these costs do not take into consideration other major concerns such as IP issues and LM-80 testing for Royal Blue LEDs.

I talked with them at the lighting convention this year and a horticulture phosphorus can be made...at a cost.
Also those little housings with the remote phosphorus chips over them and the blues in it...were at the max yield show in 2012 and claiming to beat 600w hps with 60w. I get home in a week and will pull up their sales sheet.

For advice on how to tear down one of those fixtures and turn it into something useful please refer to this thread.