Reverse Engineering everyone's nutrients

I believe in keeping things simple. I buy gh maxibloom,use it threw the whole grow. the only additives I use are calmag,and sonic bloom at 1/2 strength. You can reverse engineer a pig if you want,keeping it simple really does pay in the long run. for about $15-$20 in nutes to grow 1.5 lbs. it not worth my time or effort. most crap on the market is a waste of money anyhow.

ttystikk said:

Apologies, I did not mean to suggest they were an institution of learning themselves, only that looking over their site would be educational.

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Sometimes sites like that can have pockets of really interesting info e.g. the hydrobuddy site which has a series of good articles.

You got me all excited lol!

btw, if anyone is looking for predatory insects to deal with bug problems, I've never seen a more comprehensive repository than hydro-gardens

Igotthe6 said:

I believe in keeping things simple. I buy gh maxibloom,use it threw the whole grow. the only additives I use are calmag,and sonic bloom at 1/2 strength. You can reverse engineer a pig if you want,keeping it simple really does pay in the long run. for about $15-$20 in nutes to grow 1.5 lbs. it not worth my time or effort. most crap on the market is a waste of money anyhow.

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This thread is for those who WOULD like to know what's in those nutes. Coming here to say it's irrelevant is disingenuous. No one said you had to do it any other way.

Redoctober said:

Sometimes sites like that can have pockets of really interesting info e.g. the hydrobuddy site which has a series of good articles.

You got me all excited lol!

btw, if anyone is looking for predatory insects to deal with bug problems, I've never seen a more comprehensive repository than hydro-gardens

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They have lots of great stuff.

ttystikk said:

Just get 5-11-26 with micros, some calcium nitrate and MKP and you're golden on nutes.

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Do you steadfastly stick with 5-11-26 all the way through flower (and even veg)?
Or do you you alter the npk at various stages either by adding more phosphorus or potassium through say bloom boosters or reducing nitrogen?

I'm curious to do something like a side by side experiment of this fashion for example a Jack's style 20-20-20 start to finish vs a different, custom blend for specific interval weeks.

That's part of why I find misterblah's nutrient recipes here particularly valuable, because to me they serve as a sort of baseline to see how the nutrient balance changes over the plants life cycle according to nutrient companies' recommendations (which may or may not be tailored for us). And then to compare the recipes of each nutrient company to one another.
I think we the growers are the best sources of data in this respect - almost like a crowd sourced science experiment

Redoctober said:

Do you steadfastly stick with 5-11-26 all the way through flower (and even veg)?
Or do you you alter the npk at various stages either by adding more phosphorus or potassium through say bloom boosters or reducing nitrogen?

I'm curious to do something like a side by side experiment of this fashion for example a Jack's style 20-20-20 start to finish vs a different, custom blend for specific interval weeks.

That's part of why I find misterblah's nutrient recipes here particularly valuable, because to me they serve as a sort of baseline to see how the nutrient balance changes over the plants life cycle according to nutrient companies' recommendations (which may or may not be tailored for us). And then to compare the recipes of each nutrient company to one another.
I think we the growers are the best sources of data in this respect - almost like a crowd sourced science experiment

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So I've seen several ways to run this mix;
3g/gal mix to 2g/gal calcium nitrate, or 2 and 2 and most recently 3 g/gal calcium nitrate to 2 mix. I run the 2/2 myself and I may try the 3 mix/2 calnit.

That plus 1g/gal epsom salt makes the veg.

To make bloom, I add .5g MKP. lately I've been adding some potassium sulfate as well, jury still out on that.

ttystikk said:

So I've seen several ways to run this mix;
3g/gal mix to 2g/gal calcium nitrate, or 2 and 2 and most recently 3 g/gal calcium nitrate to 2 mix. I run the 2/2 myself and I may try the 3 mix/2 calnit.

That plus 1g/gal epsom salt makes the veg.

To make bloom, I add .5g MKP. lately I've been adding some potassium sulfate as well, jury still out on that.

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I've been reading some of your stuff about Jacks 321 on a couple different sites and threads. I wanted to jump in and pose this issue/ question about Jacks. I'm wondering about health issues with salt nutes that have heavy metals. It seems as if all of them have some level, but some appear to have more than others. Washington State has a site where nutrient companies are required to report heavy metals in their mixes. Here is the link to Jacks Hydro:

http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/FertDB/prodinfo.aspx?pname=4505

Then if I look at something like Canna Coco it appears as though their numbers for heavy metals are lower.

http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/FertDB/prodinfo.aspx?pname=4611

But, one is a powder and one is a solution concentrate and of course they are different NPK, so it's hard to really know how to compare the two "apples to apples". Do you or anybody else have any knowledge on this? I have started using Jacks 321, but don't want to keep using it if I'm just going to be huffing a bunch of nasty chemicals. Or maybe I spend the money and go with a Canna if it really is "cleaner"?

Also, do you tend to hold off on the epsom unless you need it, or do you always add it?

PDX Joe said:

I've been reading some of your stuff about Jacks 321 on a couple different sites and threads. I wanted to jump in and pose this issue/ question about Jacks. I'm wondering about health issues with salt nutes that have heavy metals. It seems as if all of them have some level, but some appear to have more than others. Washington State has a site where nutrient companies are required to report heavy metals in their mixes. Here is the link to Jacks Hydro:

http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/FertDB/prodinfo.aspx?pname=4505

Then if I look at something like Canna Coco it appears as though their numbers for heavy metals are lower.

http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/FertDB/prodinfo.aspx?pname=4611

But, one is a powder and one is a solution concentrate and of course they are different NPK, so it's hard to really know how to compare the two "apples to apples". Do you or anybody else have any knowledge on this? I have started using Jacks 321, but don't want to keep using it if I'm just going to be huffing a bunch of nasty chemicals. Or maybe I spend the money and go with a Canna if it really is "cleaner"?

Also, do you tend to hold off on the epsom unless you need it, or do you always add it?

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I always add it because more S is good for terpene production.

Dry nutrient salts are just that, and nothing more. 'Heavy metals' are a deliberate smear by the water bottle nute companies to scare people who don't know any better.

WTF do you think they make their bottled stock solutions from, anyway?

Soil has heavy metals.

ttystikk said:

I always add it because more S is good for terpene production.

Dry nutrient salts are just that, and nothing more. 'Heavy metals' are a deliberate smear by the water bottle nute companies to scare people who don't know any better.

WTF do you think they make their bottled stock solutions from, anyway?

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Yeah, that's sort if what I figured. It's all the same basic ingredients... just diluted for bottled nutes. When I look at those numbers it does appear as though the heavy metals ratio is higher in the powder nutes only because they are powder and more concentrated and the solution nutes are already watered down and therefore the heavy metal numbers are proportionally reduced based on that. Although, what the hell do I know... I'm just speculating. But, I definitely like piece of mind when it comes to stuff like this.

churchhaze said:

Soil has heavy metals.

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Oh I know. In some cases much more than synthetic nutes. Clay soils collect all that bad shit ... although we don't grow with it. Bat guano has crazy high heavy metals and that's "organic". I just like to ask the question. Otherwise, I'm pretty excited about using the Jacks.

ttystikk said:

I always add it because more S is good for terpene production.

Dry nutrient salts are just that, and nothing more. 'Heavy metals' are a deliberate smear by the water bottle nute companies to scare people who don't know any better.

WTF do you think they make their bottled stock solutions from, anyway?

Click to expand...

I knew it...I KNEW IT!!! I knew Sulfur was important!
I've had the notion that the more Sulfur there is (up to a point) the more terpene production will increase.
I'm trying to keep the ppm of Sulfur just right under the ppm of Calcium in my DIY nutes as an experiment.
Now if I could only remember what lead me to that concluuuuusion......Damn it!

How much S do you add in your mix ttystikk either by ppm or by ratio to the other elements?

What's the deal with Veg+Bloom? They say they're an all inclusive powdered nutrient with a lot more goodies than just dry nutrient salts.

Truth, halfway or pants on fire?

Redoctober said:

I knew it...I KNEW IT!!! I knew Sulfur was important!
I've had the notion that the more Sulfur there is (up to a point) the more terpene production will increase.
I'm trying to keep the ppm of Sulfur just right under the ppm of Calcium in my DIY nutes as an experiment.
Now if I could only remember what lead me to that concluuuuusion......Damn it!

How much S do you add in your mix ttystikk either by ppm or by ratio to the other elements?

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I add about a gram per gallon of epsom salt, aka magnesium sulfate, and recently I've been adding .5g/gal of potassium sulfate in peak bloom. This in addition to the S and Mg that's already in the hydroponic mix.

Ok guys I got my scale. Looking for help with a few things. I know memebers have responded just please if you can organize the data so i can buy and ship tonight.

1) fertz for bloom and veg mix (list of linnks)

2) with those links the amount i need to weigh on scale per gallon.

3) standby while i review and do this to give much thanks.

I need big fruity buds. Now chem flavor. Sick of that harsh fert taste everywhere. Thank you.

Prefer dry as i want lots of nutes for my large rez's

ttystikk said:

So I've seen several ways to run this mix;
3g/gal mix to 2g/gal calcium nitrate, or 2 and 2 and most recently 3 g/gal calcium nitrate to 2 mix. I run the 2/2 myself and I may try the 3 mix/2 calnit.

That plus 1g/gal epsom salt makes the veg.

To make bloom, I add .5g MKP. lately I've been adding some potassium sulfate as well, jury still out on that.

Click to expand...

Ttystikk, so are you still using this recipe I found in a post of yours awhile back (see below), and how has it worked for you? You mention you might switch to 3g hydro to 2g cal-nit. By the way, do you grow in coco?

Veg feed;
Three grams per gal calcium nitrate. Mix that separately from the rest. Two grams per gallon of Jacks mix. Add 1-1.5g/gal of Epsom salt. PH between 5.5-6.0. EC 1.1-1.4

Bloom feed;
2g/gal calcium nitrate
2g/gal Jacks mix
1-1.5g/gal epsom salt
PH between 5.8-6.5.
EC 1.2-1.5

need to order these today. ordered another round of bllom micro grow 1l form AN the other week. took damn near the whole water bottle pun intended just to fill 25 gal res. Plz write me back asap so i can place order with 100% confidence and get it right. Thank you.

p.s. my plants flowers seem to be a little small for this phase of bloow (week 4-5) in contrast to the stem thickness. Meaning that my stems are about 4-5x thicker running aero then when i was doing soil. I would expect the buds to be 5x larger too? Maybe.... The point is they are still very small. about the size of a very large marble or small golf ball. some of the lower buds have barely developed. i am wondering if im not using enough bloom, so i added a little more bloom. Maybe nute locks so i flushed again at $20 AN nute cost :/ . Well. I hope the plants do well im expecting the buds to explode these last 4-5 weeks just figuring the plant is still building ive never seen plants so hardy before. everoyne on youtube looks like a joke except a few aero growers. stems are just so fking thick. roots growing into rez now. incredible stuff.

ok guys this is what i have so far for the bloom and veg feed

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001RE9XM4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3EC8NZGOQP4RO

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004JD6MGK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A23XB2IU56PL57

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZD10VXM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3FWGQLMG1AAXG

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DVWG7MY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1RVE910TPDB5M

is there anything else i need. already have scale and cups to weigh in.

PDX Joe said:

Ttystikk, so are you still using this recipe I found in a post of yours awhile back (see below), and how has it worked for you? You mention you might switch to 3g hydro to 2g cal-nit. By the way, do you grow in coco?

Veg feed;
Three grams per gal calcium nitrate. Mix that separately from the rest. Two grams per gallon of Jacks mix. Add 1-1.5g/gal of Epsom salt. PH between 5.5-6.0. EC 1.1-1.4

Bloom feed;
2g/gal calcium nitrate
2g/gal Jacks mix
1-1.5g/gal epsom salt
PH between 5.8-6.5.
EC 1.2-1.5

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This is basically correct, though I do add .5g/gal of MKP in my bloom mix.

You saw the confusion around ratios of the hydroponic mix vs calcium nitrate. I'm running even amounts of mix and cadmium nitrate now with good results, others report good results with 3g/gal if mix and 2g/gal of calcium nitrate.

so then i would need this too???

https://www.amazon.com/Monopotassium-Phosphate-Soluble-Hydroponics-Aquariums/dp/B00TZTYK2Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1480450185&sr=8-1&keywords=mkp+fertilizer

What are the exact ratios you are running so i can copy and past them in my notepad now please (for bloom and veg. Thanks)

edit: also like to know. If you say xgrams/gallon. This means if i have 60 gallon res. i going to put xgrams/gallon for 60 gallons in 1 gallon water. which will create 1 gallon of solution good for 60 gallons of rez water. correct? thanks!