Ron Paul Has A Legit Shot.

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all these tax breaks are devastating me. and this access to health care is ruinous.

we're much better off making sure that the state has more control over my wife's body than my wife does. vote GOP 2012!
Remember that my scenario is IF Ron Paul runs as an Independent.

So, if it turns out to be an Obama - Insert Republican candidate name of your choice here - Ron Paul election ...... who do you honestly believe would win? Is that person the best choice, the less than perfect choice but still better than Obama or will it be the worst president in the nearly 58 years of my life, that being Obama?

And I would really love to know how, as you put it, "all these tax breaks are devastating" you and what changes you believe would make your life smooth sailing and who both could and would bring about those changes?

As for ObamaCare, that might be the single worst piece of legislation in my entire life. But there is an almost certain chance that at the very least key points of it will be struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court rendering the rest of it useless and something that even Democrats would have to admit would need to be totally rewritten, if not just scrapped. So there is hope for the nation to get out of that mess.
 

dababydroman

Well-Known Member
so many people like ron paul, but are scared to vote for him because they think it just wont happen no matter what.
well what the hell if people quit being scary and just vote for who they really like then he will get elected. why would you vote for somebody elese just because you think he cant get elected.and think it might be a waste of a vote. doesnt really make much fuckin sence to me.. i hate this country.
 

Sure Shot

Well-Known Member
all these tax breaks are devastating me. and this access to health care is ruinous.

we're much better off making sure that the state has more control over my wife's body than my wife does. vote GOP 2012!
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.
 

budlover13

King Tut
If Ron Paul runs as an Independent and you vote for him, right after the election you might as well just put a bumper sticker on your car that says I Helped Get Obama Reelected, because that is all that you will have accomplished with your vote.

Idealism, when it comes to voting in a scenario like I mentioned, is irrational and illogical. You very badly want a president replaced, but then you do the very thing that would assure that he remains the president, all because of idealism, of being such a great and proud American that you would rather vote for whoever you believe is the best candidate out of the three choices, even though that means you will go down with the ship, along with the rest of us, because you helped assure that Obama was given four more years.

Thank rationally about Ron Paul for a moment. He says a fair number of very good things. Some of them appeal very much to people like ourselves. But stop and think about what the actual odds are that he would be able to accomplish many, if any, of them, especially if an absolute miracle would occur and he would run as an Independent and be elected.

The things that are most appealing about what changes Ron Paul says he will make are not ones he can do through presidential decree. They would take acts of congress. Even if he won being the Republican candidate he would not have strong support among his own party in congress. To many are to entrenched in old school politics and cronyism. In many cases they do not want what he wants. Democrats absolutely do not want what he wants. So even as a Republican president it would be extremely difficult for him to accomplish anything he wants to do, at least to anywhere near the degree he wants to do it.

Regardless of what legislation he might ask for, there is no assuring that any member of congress would write it. If someone did they might do so only to appear to not be standing in the way of President Paul, but they might write it in a way that would assure it never even made it out of committee for a floor vote, let alone being passed by both the House and the Senate so President Paul could then sign it into law.

If he were to win as an Independent he would have even less support in congress than if he won as a Republican. Neither major party in congress would be his party. Some, maybe most, Republicans could hold a grudge that he knocked off their guy, or gal, and not work with him any better than Democrats would just to make sure he was seen as an ineffectual failure and end up a one term president that no one would ever vote for again.

A president just does not posses the powers and authority to make most of the changes that Ron Paul preaches, especially the one we here would hold so near and dear, legalizing marijuana.

With so much that would need to be done just to keep the nation working on the same pitiful level as now he could only afford to expend so much time on the sweeping changes he promises but would be doomed to failure by congress. So, after making an attempt and failing he would be forced to scrap much of what he promises and what makes you say; "Ron Paul gets my vote. Period."

The only way that Ron Paul could stand any chance of doing what he is campaigning on is if most of the seat in the Senate that are up for reelection were won by Ron Paul friendly Republicans or Tea Party candidates AND since every seat in the House is up for reelection Ron Paul friendly Republicans or Tea Party members would have to win a large majority of the House. He would need to have a super majority in congress made up mostly of Ron Paul friendly Senators and House members. If not, he could end up less effective than Obama because he would constantly be fighting with and trying to convince not only one political party in congress, but instead both political parties in congress to give him what he asks for.

Like it or not, agree with it or not, that is the reality of what he would be facing. So if you have some youthful pie in the sky rose colored glasses beliefs that if Ron Paul wins, however it would happen, that you will see much, let alone most or all of what he's campaigning on, you need to wake up and smell the Mango Haze because it just will not happen. He would be elected president, not king, and he would not be able to rule by decree and facing an uncooperative congress, he would be nearly powerless do to much of what sounds so good to so many of us.

Not my goal unless replaced by Paul or someone of like mind. As for the other "conservatives", they aren't.



The "ship", as currently floating NEEDS to go down imo.

In the end, i know he cannot accomplish what he wants. But at least it's a swing in the right direction.
 

budlover13

King Tut
Remember that my scenario is IF Ron Paul runs as an Independent.

So, if it turns out to be an Obama - Insert Republican candidate name of your choice here - Ron Paul election ...... who do you honestly believe would win? Is that person the best choice, the less than perfect choice but still better than Obama or will it be the worst president in the nearly 58 years of my life, that being Obama?

And I would really love to know how, as you put it, "all these tax breaks are devastating" you and what changes you believe would make your life smooth sailing and who both could and would bring about those changes?

As for ObamaCare, that might be the single worst piece of legislation in my entire life. But there is an almost certain chance that at the very least key points of it will be struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court rendering the rest of it useless and something that even Democrats would have to admit would need to be totally rewritten, if not just scrapped. So there is hope for the nation to get out of that mess.
Paul polls very well head to head with Obama.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Remember that my scenario is IF Ron Paul runs as an Independent.

So, if it turns out to be an Obama - Insert Republican candidate name of your choice here - Ron Paul election ...... who do you honestly believe would win? Is that person the best choice, the less than perfect choice but still better than Obama or will it be the worst president in the nearly 58 years of my life, that being Obama?
obama will win in a head to head match or a three way match, so go cry in your corn flakes.

the right has jumped off a cliff. huntsman is your only chance and while he does have a path forward, it just appeared to become less likely today. but polls change quickly.

And I would really love to know how, as you put it, "all these tax breaks are devastating" you and what changes you believe would make your life smooth sailing and who both could and would bring about those changes?
in case you have been mired in your partisan hackery shouting box for too long to recognize sarcasm, let me explain to you that i was being sarcastic. the tax breaks provided to me via the ARRA have been wisely invested and are still paying me back.


As for ObamaCare, that might be the single worst piece of legislation in my entire life. But there is an almost certain chance that at the very least key points of it will be struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court rendering the rest of it useless and something that even Democrats would have to admit would need to be totally rewritten, if not just scrapped. So there is hope for the nation to get out of that mess.
time will tell.

in the meantime, my wife, who has a pre-existing condition, has been able to purchase health insurance thanks to that piece of legislation.

what a nightmare.

do you care to discuss how this 'single worst piece of legislation' was originally a heritage foundation idea?

LOL!
 

deprave

New Member
Ron Paul is the only candidate that has a chance of winning the Republican Nomination that can get liberal and independent votes to beat Obama. I am a liberal and I think all the other republican's are bat shit crazy and would never vote for them..Only huntsman or Gary Johnson which don't stand a chance. The rest of the nominees don't understand history or philosophy at all and are an embarrassment to this country. We should be ashamed to have such imbeciles actually being considered for president. They are also a bunch of goldman sachs puppets just like obama.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.
a ron paul presidency would mean a markedly greater chance that my wife's freedom to make decisions about her own body and health would be sacrificed so that this oh-so-small government ron paul is always squawking about could make the decisions for her.

what amazing freedom!
 

deprave

New Member
Great arguments....hypothetical scenarios and predictions...what do you have for us next o wise seer? More Democratic Underground Yellow Journalism talking points? Doomsday conspiracy theories? Come back to earth..
 

Sure Shot

Well-Known Member
a ron paul presidency would mean a markedly greater chance that my wife's freedom to make decisions about her own body and health would be sacrificed so that this oh-so-small government ron paul is always squawking about could make the decisions for her.

what amazing freedom!
Could you please elaborate, so I understand where your standpoint is more clearly?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Great arguments....hypothetical scenarios and predictions...what do you have for us next o wise seer? More Democratic Underground Yellow Journalism talking points? Doomsday conspiracy theories? Come back to earth..
i base my predictions on solid evidence, indicators, and speculation of those who know 'inside baseball' way better than i do.
 

budlover13

King Tut
a ron paul presidency would mean a markedly greater chance that my wife's freedom to make decisions about her own body and health would be sacrificed so that this oh-so-small government ron paul is always squawking about could make the decisions for her.

what amazing freedom!
Ron Paul would leave it up to you to choose which state (via 10th Ammendment) and laws would be in your and your wife's best interest.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Ron Paul would leave it up to you to choose which state (via 10th Ammendment) and laws would be in your and your wife's best interest.
yes, i'll just uproot my existence because ron paul knows what is best for my wife, not my wife.

gotta love that small government.
 

deprave

New Member
i base my predictions on solid evidence, indicators, and speculation of those who know 'inside baseball' way better than i do.
They play baseball at the national enquirer?

[video=youtube;Qy-Y3HJNU_s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy-Y3HJNU_s&feature=related[/video]
 

budlover13

King Tut
yes, i'll just uproot my existence because ron paul knows what is best for my wife, not my wife.

gotta love that small government.
Ya might not have to if you are living around like-minded people or are a good diplomat :)

If #1 isn't true, then why you there?

#2 is a given in my experience :)
 

Brick Top

New Member
obama will win in a head to head match or a three way match, so go cry in your corn flakes.
The only reason that Obama stands any chance of winning in a head to head match is because the Republicans have a field of weak candidates. If there was on standout in the crowd that had national appeal, Obama might as well start packing his bags today so he'd be ready to move out after taking a beating at bad as Reagan handed Mondale.

What put Obama in the White House was the Independent vote. He has lost much of it and it will take either a miracle or a terrible Republican candidate for Independents to be able to bring themselves to vote for Obama again. He has even lost a small amount of support among Democrats. Add those things together and if the Republicans had one candidate with the appeal of a Ronald Reagan, Obama would be toast.

If Obama remains in the White House after a head to head election it will be because the Republicans lost themselves the election due to stupidity and a terrible candidate rather than Obama actually having earned the win.




in the meantime, my wife, who has a pre-existing condition, has been able to purchase health insurance thanks to that piece of legislation.

what a nightmare.

The nightmare, in part, is the unimaginably massive unsustainable debt that comes with the legislation. ObamaCare was in part sold as legislation that would reduce the cost of health insurance. Rather than the cost of health insurance going down, in 2011 health insurance has increased 9%. While your wife now can have insurance many others who in the past could afford good coverage have, or will, have to reduce their coverage, way up their deductibles and in many cases drop the insurance they had for years and go with MediCare-MediCaid, which further adds to the taxpayers burden of paying for everything in this nation.


do you care to discuss how this 'single worst piece of legislation' was originally a heritage foundation idea?
If it was in the same form as what we now have, and not in a very different form but gave basically the same things to health patients, then regardless of where it came from it was, like Obama, an unmitigated disaster.

I am not the hardcore Republican that you evidently believe me to be. I have always been one to vote for the very best candidate, as long as it was one who stood a chance of winning so I would not be throwing away my vote on someone who ends up with 18% of the vote, or something. If Obama were not up for reelection and the Democrats were fielding a spectacular candidate, I would be all for them. If there was a viable third party that was fielding a spectacular candidate, I would be behind that candidate.

But in this election our choice will be between 'proven himself to be horribly inept' and 'might only be slightly better than the last bozo.' That is of course excluding Ron Paul because he has some great ideas but no chance of implementing them, he would have virtually no political capital to spend to get what he asked for from congress, even if elected, so it should, hopefully, come down to a two candidate race.

In reality each rational person's vote will be based on if they are more comfortable giving the worst president in modern history another four years or risk that someone they do not have a lot of faith in might only turn out to be marginally better, which wouldn't be difficult since my cat would be a better president than Obama, or they could even turn out to be much better.

You, in part, need to look at the entire picture. If history repeats itself, like it has ever since some time in the late 1920's, Republicans will end up controlling both houses of Congress, both the Senate and the House. If that happens Obama will, as unimaginable as it might sound, be even less effective than he has been. But with a Republican president things could get done.

Of course you can argue, most likely based on your political leanings alone, that the things that would get done would be bad things. But you nor I know what would be done and right now the nation is to a point where something needs to happen, something different than what has occurred since Obama took office has to be tried because he has not only not improved things, he has made them worse, and the nation cannot suffer through four more years of such totally inept leading from behind, as Obama has become famous for, or maybe that should be as Obama has become infamous for.

When people go to vote they need to keep this in mind.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein

Insanity is what a vote for Obama would be because it would be repeating the same proven grievous error, but expecting different results.
 

Sure Shot

Well-Known Member
The mindset that you are only gonna vote when you see a lot of hands go up, is reminiscent of a scared school child.
Like wallflowers in a school dance waiting for everyone else to do something, making excuses for hiding in the crowd.
Stand for freedom. Throw away your vote on Ron Paul. If we all just throw our vote away on Ron Paul, I think he wins by default.
If you truly want what's best for the future of your lineage and of your country, do the math, it never lies!
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
...if the Republicans had one candidate with the appeal of a Ronald Reagan, Obama would be toast.
and if i were a unicorn, i would shit skittles on a fluffy cloud.

I...in 2011 health insurance has increased 9%.
and it nearly tripled in the 20 years previous.

i thought you boasted yourself as an oldie with some historical perspective, so i am left wondering why you ignore such obvious things as this.

... the worst president in modern history ... with a Republican president things could get done. ...the nation cannot suffer through four more years of such totally inept leading
i fucking hate all these tax breaks and access to health care. don't get me started on the infrastructure improvements that allow me to idle in traffic less, wasting less gas.

i hate it when companies spend less money on fossil fuels because their trucks did not have to sit and idle in traffic. i much prefer to foot the cost for these companies' wasted gasoline.

what a disaster!
 
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