sharing my modified subcool super soil recipe

Whitey... Let me be the first to wish you Happy Birthday! Party? You seem so wise for your age my friend...

I've always preferred my margaritas with grand marnier like you... I hate that sweet triple sec crap... My parents always had red on the dinner table and have done my best to keep up the family tradition... But fairly recently, I've cut way back on the alcohol and just keep puffing away... if I start to feel my lungs starving for oxygen then out comes the Volcano...

Okay... I'm going pH crazy and I know that I need to cool it... good point on ph-ing tomatoes... never heard of that.... but, doesn't sub ph his water? I seem to remember him talking about pH-ing his water... maybe it was with one of his vegan grows?... Since you cut me back to just RO water and cal/mag... there isn't much to pH anyway... lol... no seriously... I couldn't be happier... I mean the garden couldn't be any happier.... it's starting to stink it up... And, I'll pick up the GO ca/mg+ this week...

Since I estimated the supersoil (wish I would of measured it) and you told me that I might of been a little heavy with it... I was curious about the runoff ppm/tds/ec... Can I assume that the proper amount of supersoil is determined from experience working with the same strain or phono over multiple grows??

Your garden is loving it... the Chesse Quake crew look like they're starting to pack on the weight... lookin' mighty TASTY dude... how far along? And that AOS... what can I say... sounds dank... your KILLING it man... pics? What camera and lens are you using?

You must feel like... do I have to beat this pH horse to death with this guy or what? Seeing your garden is making me a believer...

I picked up the General Organics ca/mg+ (1/2 tsp/gal. or <100ppm) and added it RO water... the GO ca/mg+ brought the pH down to 5.1 (I was using Bontanicare ca/mag+ up until I bought the GO yesterday and the Botanicare only brought the pH down to 6.8 @<100ppm)... I am waiting to water until I'm clear on how to proceed...

I understand that I have buffers built in to my soil mix but can they deal with a 5.1pH?

Or should I water with plain RO water?

Or should I go back to the Botanicare cal/mag+ (it's got ETDA in it but the GO may also)?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Thank for all the info sidewing... been a while since I did soil and this made things easy. Tap water and good to go. Healthy and looking good.

sorry havent chimed in for a while, for some reason i stopped getting notifications of thread replys.. ive been over on a different forum since ive obtained a lot of kens genetics. i now have seed pops of these strains:
bay 11, phantom cookies, gdp kush, and kens kush.. i have clone only cuts of these (from kens collective also): girls scout cookies, phantom, blue dream, candyland, and cherry pie.
so i have my hands full with new genetics to run. i have the girls scout cookies, xj13, kens gdp, and sour diesel in flower right now, about 7 weeks in.. i decided to do just water only this whole flowering cycle.. im also using the rice hulls and neem seed meal in the mix.. this round is absolutely fantastic. i got a new ac unit so my temps are at a steady range between 68-73 always.. regardless, this round of water only is one of the best rounds ive ran, and ive ran all these strains before except GSC.

crab hows the mix working out for you? ive seen nothing but great results and with the exception of learning when to top a strain, the mix should give you the max potential that the genetics will allow. just keep your temps in check, and enough lighting.

you dont need to ph your water, my tap water is really hard, its anywhere from 8 to 9 ph. and i never ph my water and its fine, the soil buffers the PH. you only need to PH your water in a hydro or coco setup because essentially the water is the medium.. in organic soil, the soil is the medium and will buffer the PH to where it needs to be. dont PH your water, you will just make things more complicated and maybe even throw off the balance. stick to tap water only trust me.

anyway, ill try to check in a little more frequently and in a week or 2 ill post some bud pics of the ladies before they come down to show how things are looking.. they are looking absolutely great already but ill give you the pics right before they come down.

i think the hardest thing to let go is all the extra bottled crap.. ive been there before.. i used to spend over 500 dollars every couple of months on bottled nutrients to see results equivalent of what i spend about 60 dollars every 2 months on now. just trust the soil mix and water it.. it will do its job, ive seen that first hand this round by withholding the liquid karma, hygrozyme, and molasses.. the results ARE THE SAME IF NOT BETTER with just water only.. the mix is solid and has everything it needs to go the whole flower cycle.. the leaves will start to fade around week 8-9.. not too early for nearly all strains these days. the meds taste extremely clean.. i actually had a buddy of mine give me some GSC from harborside recently, looks absolutely fantastic, smells great.. but the taste is not on par to what im used to with the soil mix. it tasted of residual and a little harsh. ive been puffing GSC and grandaddy from the soil mix (GSC from kens gdp collective, they are organic as well). and the grandaddy i did is like eating a grape jolly rancher.. with a touch of cotton candy. no harshness whatsoever, no residual, no throat burn even on fat choker rips. it feels great on the body when smoked. clean natural/organic soil is the way weed was intended to be grown, and it shows the body love when its done correctly.

Crab Pot said:

I picked up the General Organics ca/mg+ (1/2 tsp/gal. or <100ppm) and added it RO water... the GO ca/mg+ brought the pH down to 5.1 (I was using Bontanicare ca/mag+ up until I bought the GO yesterday and the Botanicare only brought the pH down to 6.8 @<100ppm)... I am waiting to water until I'm clear on how to proceed...

I understand that I have buffers built in to my soil mix but can they deal with a 5.1pH?

Or should I water with plain RO water?

Or should I go back to the Botanicare cal/mag+ (it's got ETDA in it but the GO may also)?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Click to expand...

The GO is what you want... When I water, I use 1tsp per gal minimum on full sized plants nowadays with RO water, when things look like they need more I'll go up to 2tsp per gal, I have no idea what the PH was ever... I dont wanna say just believe me cuz I said so, but for once I think you should but if you feel you need PH it... go for it bro.. I wish I could convince you to leave the PH-ing shit alone, its not as import as you think and are led to believe it is in organic gardening, it is important in synthetics and hydro etc...... I cant explain it to you any better than I have, not because of anything other than I cant break it down to the level I need to in order to make you understand that its not as important as its made out to be... It is, but in reference to your solutions or watering being used with supersoil, its not.. The soil and microbes etc.. do all the work and with the help of lime and the other things bring it to where they want it... Truly bro... I would not steer you, or anyone for that matter wrong, intentionally, ever for any reason...

I wouldnt go to the lengths I have in this thread trying to explain it to you, and searching shit and actually spending my time researching it for you in order to answer you as informative as possible, but dont think I mind doing it or anything like that but the reason a lot of other users wont answer questions sometimes is because the information is only a google search away and they feel that if you found your way here to this forum, you have weed growing halfway decent, you could find the info yourself, a lot of times thats the only way people learn, but I try to help others as others have helped me in the past at one point or another... but at a certain point you have to either do or dont in reference to PH..

I think if you seriously have doubts to anything I've said, the only way I can suggest figuring it out yourself is to put the extra work in and do a side by side with a couple of the same plants from clone... PH 1 plant, and do another without PH-ing anything at all and see what works out better, seriously... Its the only way to do it and be able to know without a doubt whats better... My meds have only gotten better since I've stopped the insanity (remember that commercial? "STOP THE INSANITY" with that almost bald, blonde bitch? LOL... I'm high already this morning.. a very nice buzz it is too...) of PH-ing and worrying about the PPM levels etc... Dont get me wrong, if it was what needed to be done, I'd be doing it... I was 150% as skeptical as you are about the PH of the water and solutions that were going into my plants, but at some point I realized its not necessary. If you are mixing up 7 different organic nutes in a bucket or something like that, you may wanna check the PH... but you are watering with only ca/mg in minimal amounts, the RO waters PH swings extremely when anything is added to it... Take a gallon of RO water in a bucket, check the PH of it and make note... Drop in 2-4 drops of any type of nute, use the ca/mg+ and see what 2 drops does to the PH... As easily as it changes when you add those couple drops of whatever... it will change the same exact way when it hits your soils buffers and as it dries the beasties do their thang and thats, that...

Whatever you do, dont go back to the botanicare ca/mg... F-dat shit, its garbage.... If you ever plan on doing a soil grow with bottled nutes or something other than general organics, use it... I was thinking about grabbing a couple bottles of botanicare in order to do my upcoming seed plants. For now I am only going to be growing plants from seed long enough to get a few clones off and then they are gonna be flowered and I dont wanna use a lot of resources to do so, so I want to keep them in smaller pots and not have to worry about supplying them with enough soil to make it all the way through... From seed plants are only a preview to whats to come from clones, I much rather work with clones.

The other thing I meant to tell you about when you asked me about the % amounts you put in your pot, dont think of it as too hot... like they're gonna get nute burned or something... the amount of SS in the pot directly corresponds with how long its going to last... If you put 25 or 50% in there... its going to be just as "hot" to the plant as far as strength, its just going to last longer the more you put in... Normally you can fill a 7 gallon pot (of subs mix) with 40-50% and go for a 50-60 day veg along with another 8 weeks of flowering with very little else...

As far as the post above that I missed by you (crab)... thank you for the b-day wishes brother.. It was yesterday actually and I got a pretty awesome gift... About a month ago I broke it off with the chick I had been with for the past year or so, I actually met her at a memorial day party... go figure.. lol.. But I was a little upset that I thought I'd be spending my B-day alone (as far as a GF or whatever...) but on thursday a mutual friend (a woman obviously) of myself and the girl I had broken up with, had came by to see me for some meds (she has MS) and we got to talking about why I broke up with the other chick... and for the same exact reasons I broke it off; were the same reasons she was only a friend in name with her basically... My ex was literally the fake-est bitch I've ever met who uses anyone and everyone she possibly can, sadly it took me a little while to realize it, a little too long IMO... I normally pride myself on seeing people for what they are but she was just really that good of a scumbag/manipulating POS who I wanted to see the good in, there was a little in her, not enough for me though....

However, it took me a year to figure out was there was absolutely nothing good about her except how "entertaining" (for lack of a better term) she was in the bedroom which is sadly all shes good for... As far as her being a manipulator or whatever, thats not the kind of person I am and definitely not the kind of person I wanna be with, I will never be with another person like that... I go out of my way to treat people the way I wanna be treated, I dont lie to people (aside from leo if and when I have to), I dont fuck people over... and the only thing I ask of people is to treat me the same way...

So anyhow me and the mutual friend got to talking and we ended up going out on thursday night which started out as taking a ride to walmart together to get some stuff in order for me to make my cannabutter on thursday afternoon... And just to let you know how it turned out... I'm presently typing as fast as I can so I can go get my ass back to her house and back in her bed and get some sleep, I had to go look at a job this morning but I could use a few more hours..... But thursday night we went out for a couple drinks after wallymart, it was one of those nights where your hanging out having a good time with someone you never thought you had that much in common to have an actual conversation for 12+ hours and not want it to stop (and before anyone else thinks it, there were no "substances" that could cause a conversation of that length about absolutely nothing, anyone whos used cocaine before will know what I'm talking about)... after close we went to her house and continued the convo until I realized it was 5:30 in the morning, still not wanting to leave or stop, but I had to go to work in 3 hours... So needless to say I just stayed up and went to work and then yesterday being my birthday, obviously I had to go out, lol... A couple friends that had gotten a baby sitter in order to go out with me, had to cancel because of whatever, and for once I was happy about that... I called up my new friend and as prior statements would lead you to believe, it ended up being a good night... actually, a VERY good night... Not that I'm looking for another full time girlfriend at this point, but it was nice to re-meet someone I had already known but my involvement with my ex prevented me from being able to hang out with her and get to know her better, which is only right. But that also caused her to be kinda reluctant to get together with me because of "girl-code" and all that dumb shit, but she knew what that other who-ore (sound it out and then say it faster, lol) put me through, none of it was right... I try to be as good of a person as I possibly can be, I am a firm believer in karma, and my ex has a whole lot of bad karma coming her way... But all in all, I had a pretty awesome birthday... I do appreciate the b-day wishes bro... And as you can see by the last paragraph I had an awesome birthday this year....

And thank you sidewing, your post wasnt up when I started this reply but I'm very glad you chimed in... My buddy crab pot here has a whole lot of growing potential but like all the others who come into the world of organics from synthetics, cant let go of that mindset that you need to PH everything... You explained it perfectly though.. The more I read this thread though, the more I wanna try a batch of your soil, I think I may do so in the near future...

Anyhow, sorry if my blubbering about my love life degraded the value of this thread, lol...

I hope everyone has a good memorial day weekend...

here is a pic of a budha tahoe started 4/20 showing fuz balls so we be about 5weeks in also some Jedi kush and a Fire Alien Master. I add a little rhizo and cannazyme once in a while along with a bit of silica in once transplanted and a few waterings once in a while but thats pretty much it and never ph'd water, straight out of tap. My biggest issue is that I'm outside so got to deal with pillers lately and that has me finger f#*king them a lot more than I'd like to but my fingers smell like a candied lemon funk a lot!

my pepper plants like it as well.

Oh yeah... about PH-ing... after my last post, I walked into my garden and said to myself WTF am I doing... these bitches are gorgeous and at that very moment I realized that the biggest obstacle in keeping them gorgeous was me... SO I'M DONE WITH PH-ING... SORRY TO PUT YOU THROUH ALL THAT PH CRAP WHITEY!! ... I've learned everything I know from you and sidewing and I plan to make you guys proud one day...

Sidewing... THANKS AGAIN FOR THE RECIPE!... I've been hanging around here on your thread hoping to compare notes with you and other growers using your mix... it's early for my grow (day 25 flower) but like I mentioned earlier in this post... they're gorgeous... no deficiencies of any kind... every single leaf is beautiful... ideally I would of vegged another two or three weeks (vegged for 35 days)... I topped/fimmed and bent them over and tied them down... they're just about two and a half feet tall (ground up) and two feet+ wide with 12+ bud sites each (I'll get pics up before they get chopped)... some of the bud sites were a little more immature than I would of preferred at the time I flipped but seem to be stacking on the flowers nicely anyway... running 10 week strains with roughly 50% supersoil... we will see how they fade and I'll adjust from there on the next round...

The supersoil modifications that you have made are brilliant sideways... cutting back on subs amendments a little and then adding alfalfa, kelp, potassium sulfate, neem seed meal, brown rice hulls, etc... I don't think too many growers could of pulled off what you have done... this gives the microbiology a lot more diversity... I'm all in for a long ride working with your mix and hopefully with you... I did throw in some MET 52 (root aphid protection) in my mix and when I found a single gnat I called in the nematodes for insurance and haven't seen a single bug since...

Nice... you got yourself a new a/c unit and you must be happy with your temps now... I'm running at 72-78 day and 64-68 night with 55- 67% rh and a small a/c unit in a large room... it's been raining outside enough to keep the rh high... I'm building a separate building (approx. 200 sq/ft upscale shed) from the house this summer to house my medical grow in and I would like to find a heating-a/c unit for a closed system... don't like the thought of the hot air being exhausted outside creating steam that my neighbors are going to wonder about if you know what I mean... even though mmj (and recreational mj) is legal in this state everyone continues to be on edge about the legalities...

Your fortunate to have access to those clones... that's awesome... what great cuts to work with... keep me posted on what you like and what not... I'm scared to death to pick bring home a bunch of problems (bugs,PM,etc.) from the dispensaries around here... how can you be sure the cuts from dispensaries are clean?... I did pick up a 10 pack of Ken's GDP the other day from the May Attitude promotional sale (10% off- big deal! lol)... I need to figure out how I can safely get some of those cuts also... sounds too good to me to pass on... Can't wait for the pics sideways... this is exciting...



Whitey... what a great romantic story and it's sounds like you found yourself a real special person this time around... don't let her go... any women that you could sit there with and have a 12+ hour conversation and still not get enough of is one that you might want to think about holding on to tight... a very similar situation happened to me about 9 years ago... I've been together with the women ever since (happily married for 5+ year)... your lucky you could just kick your last gf out.... that wasn't the case for me... I was married and with two kids... I would of stayed in the toxic relationship for the sake of my kids but my ex saw her big payday coming and lawyered up... long story short... she got the money and I ended up with a horrible neurological condition (CRPS which is similar to MS) from hand surgery a short time after our divorce was settled... I am now 55 and have been permanently disabled for the last 4 1/2 years... actually almost died a few times from this condition... anyway, my new wife is golden to me and I sincerely hope that you and your new gf are able to continue to enjoy each other for a long time to come... they don't come along like that everyday...

Whitey... sorry again about the trust issue... I fully trust you dude... I want to let you know that I never thought for a moment that you would intentionally steer me wrong... I understood that there was a built in PH buffering capacity in the mix but the part I was having a hard time with was getting though my thick skull that it could actually buffer PH's that are over 100x (5.1 PH) off... I get it finally and I'll do my best to pass it on to other growers in the future when ever I have a chance... as you have done with me... THANKS FOR NOT GIVING UP ON ME BRO...

ta2drvn... good to know that your not PH-ing also... I'm sticking with the GO ca/mg and RO water... too much crap in my well water... 1 tsp/gal unless they call for more... it looks like you've been growing for quite a while... how are you liking this mix that sideways put together compared to other growing techniques you've used in the past?... your plants (incl peppers) seem to be loving it... what size pots are you using for veg and flower?

Well... the truth is... I owe all you guys a bit of gratitude... honestly... I was pretty down after fighting this health condition and all that comes along with it and then you guys came along.... now I have a bitching hobby... get to have a little fun with you all... and maybe I might end up with some awesome meds too...

So, I wanted a soil that was easy to work with and as water n go as possible because I honestly didn't know how much attention I was going to have and being I'm trying to get used to outdoors vs indoors I wanted it to be easy. this soil mix has so far proven to be just that. It's still early to give a full review on it since I have no finished product yet, but so far the only worries I've had is bud worms, nothing in the way of nutrients.

I've been using 1 gal's then to 3's and planning to go to10g's next weekend for flowering since I figure the two I'm planning should start flowering end of june, I might wait two weeks to transplant.

As to compare to other methods, if I were to be doing indoor I would go back to a soilless mix for better production and a faster finish imo and if I were to be doing an outdoor plant I WILL be doing this mix (as a matter of fact, I need to mix up some more pretty soon).

I've been watering with a PH of 4.7-5.1 (no nutes, RO water GO CaMg+@approx100ppm, hygrozyme) for the past three weeks (adjusted to 6.5PH prior)
Rust/brown spots starting on the fan leaves
No yellowing of leaves
Day 46 flower (70 day strains)
Day temps. 73-77f Night temps. 68-70f
RH 50-60%
1000w hps

CalMag issue? Nute lockout?

I NEED HELP PLEASE!

I think it's complications from the phing of your water and the calmag. Could be toxicity or lockout or both. The mix works best with just tap water from what I've seen.

I do not ph at all dont even look at it, dont even have a kit. I feed straight tap with about 2ml per gal of liquid silica and every 2-3 watering I add rhizo and cannazyme. Lush green leaves... not one issue with ph... this soil knows what ph it wants and seems to keep it there just fine

I was told that I needed needed to use RO water due to too many dissolved solids in my well water (230ppm) but to replace the calcium and magnesium in the RO water at around 60-80ppm and add additional if needed (Mag def.). I think its needed.... I'm going to raise the CaMg+ dosage in their waterings since their feeding more now than they were earlier and to hit them with some molasses for additional magnesium. Did I just figure out my problem? I just hope it"s not a PH lockout issue going on.

I get both of your points about just using tap water and am about to start doing it myself! Thanks for the quick replies!!

I'm going to hit them with the additional CaMg+ and molasses unless somebody has a better Rx... I'll have to tell you though... the buds look AMAZING! Just hope to finish them...

Have you tried using your tap water? Have you checked the ph on your run off? Run a good flush get ph back in line and then try using straight tap with no ph adjusters. IMHO...

I can't post pictures right now for some reason but look in the seed n strain reviews section look for OGR Fire Alien Master thread it has pics of plants in this soil mix no signs of any problems using tap water.

I finished watering about an hour or so ago...

Runoff PH between 6.4 and 6.6. Watered today @5.1 PH with 250ppm CaMg+ and Molasses

I think its probably a magnesium deficiency... the rust/brown spots are so uniform between all four plants and now that I've had a chance to think about it... I could see the spot developing (before any rust/brown spots) over the past week and should of seen it coming... hope the extra magnesium does the trick...

ta2drvn... your pics have been incredible... post more when you can... I would like to see all what your doing with this mix and I'm seriously considering going to tap water like sideways and you... thanks for your help...

sideways... thanks again for your help also... every time I look at those flowers... I get a big smile on my face...

Question: If the girls finish green (too much supersoil) is the smoke going to be harsh?

My city water is pretty hard too.around 200ppm. m. Works fine. If you're on day 47 I'd say you're getting to the point where you should be going water only anyway to finish em off. The soil won't make your weed harsh. The additives may. If you use them too late in flower. Put it this way..can you grow any type of garden in your yard with tap water? If so you're tap water will work just fine. Cannabis is a weed.it can survive just like any other weed it doesn't need to be babied

Thx, the biggest difference in the recipe for me was that instead of RootsOrganic soil I used FFOF due to convince and price. IMHO I have heard people talk about RO vs tap this and that, MY experience has been that there is minimal difference between the two and that more people have issues like what you are experiencing due to the buffers they use and the extra cal/mg they add than it seems to be worth, but like I said this is only MY observation, IMO RO water is only needed if you can't drink your tap water (I don't mean that you don't like the chlorine taste cause chlorine will not harm your plants in the amount used in tap water). I have used water that started out with ppm's as high as 500ppm and my end results were just fine.

here are a few pics from this morning, i even have my chillies in the same mix

ps. Harshness is more a cure issue especially with soil, imo

Your both right! I'm going with tap (well) water... thanks for keeping me straight.

Sideways- I picked up a 10 pack of Ken's GDP. Any advice on what to look for when I pop those beans?

ta2drvn- impressive thread you have going... your plants are looking so healthy... Can't wait to see how they finish... I'll be checking in often...