So who here is growing in true organic living soil?

fattiemcnuggins

Well-Known Member
Got ya, I knew I had read something about fermentation. I only have one big plant 2 weeks into flower and a bunch in different stages of veg. The plant in flower isn't in the new mix but is topdressed with it. So really I have only been using what I mixed for a week or so.
 

Hemlock

Well-Known Member
I love brewing teas so I was considering a Vortex Brewer. I met a member here named heinsberg and while discussing this Vortex Brewer he brought up a good question.
Does the Vortex Brewer make more microbes than just an airstone so I emailed the company thought you all would like to see the response.

Hello, thanks for your email. Your question is a good one, but not an easy one to answer. The idea that when there are more microbes it is better is not necessarily true. You also have to consider the ability and diversity of microbes. All microbes are not the same, and the talents of microbes cannot be realized by looking through a microscope. This is all a lab test shows, mere numbers.

Further, it is premature to say that biologists have a firm grasp of what SHOULD be there to begin with. For instance, we know 5% of bacteria and 10% of fungi based on the rate of discovery. We know very little about what we are looking at. This is all a lab test is doing…looking. There is strength in diversity. In all respects, we shouldn’t have a clue of the biological diversity in a premium biological inoculant, if you can name what is in it is extremely deficient. Our microbes come from a 350 year old farm and represent the soil food web in totality.

The true test of a biological product is how well it works with growing plants. This is what a lab rarely does, test the abilities of microbes. The documents in the below link speak to this method of investigation and will clearly show the ability of our microbes through lab testing before and after on samples, or in side-by-sides. I also included a Testimony document form many of our customers.

There is more to life than what is physically here. If we are open to this and look at our gardens from a wholistic natural perspective we can get far more out of it. For instance, vortexing water changes it. It breaks down the surface tension it dissolves more oxygen. There are over 90 properties of water that can be measured based on new science. In other words, water is far more complicated than we give it credit.

We don’t make a vortex in the Vortex Brewer™, we allow it. And when you allow water it what it wants it can express itself in full force. Water is the most important primary nutrient. I also included a document on dissolved oxygen below. The Vortex Brewer™ uses no air stones, but attains higher DO because it constantly exposes the skin of water to the air. It supersaturates the water. But, more interestingly, it allows water to retain oxygen for much longer periods of time.

We make no claims of what should be in compost tea, only that our recipe brewed in the Vortex Brewer™ does amazing things in the garden. I would be very interested in your feedback on what we have put together and the effectiveness of our products in the garden.


I'm about to call BULLSHIT but wanna see what ya'll think.
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
Got ya, I knew I had read something about fermentation. I only have one big plant 2 weeks into flower and a bunch in different stages of veg. The plant in flower isn't in the new mix but is topdressed with it. So really I have only been using what I mixed for a week or so.
Well, I was going to suggest you amend the soil a bit as you go. Adding amendments on the top as the plant is using them up from below. That will keep the soil balanced and ready for the next plant.
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
Hemlock, I hate that sort of wish-wash dialog. The fact is there is hard science behind this and they characterize it as a spiritual experience. Also, I feel that a very occasional ACT is warranted, but after the microlife is established and balanced in the pail the way the plant wants it, it makes less sense to flood the soil with trillions of added organisms.

Adding the barley sprout tea with coconut water and aloe is different in that we're adding powerful hormones, secondary metabolites and plant enzymes, which both the plant and soil can use.
 

NickNasty

Well-Known Member
I made my own 20 gallon vortex brewer < I have no idea if it makes more microbes then just air stones but I have read the whirlpool effect adds more oxygen to the water then just air stones. I would never go and buy a vortex brewer though they are super expensive and I don't think they make that much of a difference especially for the price.
 

Hemlock

Well-Known Member
I made my own 20 gallon vortex brewer < I have no idea if it makes more microbes then just air stones but I have read the whirlpool effect adds more oxygen to the water then just air stones. I would never go and buy a vortex brewer though they are super expensive and I don't think they make that much of a difference especially for the price.
Thats what I'm thinking NN.
 

Hemlock

Well-Known Member
Hemlock, I hate that sort of wish-wash dialog. The fact is there is hard science behind this and they characterize it as a spiritual experience. Also, I feel that a very occasional ACT is warranted, but after the microlife is established and balanced in the pail the way the plant wants it, it makes less sense to flood the soil with trillions of added organisms.

Adding the barley sprout tea with coconut water and aloe is different in that we're adding powerful hormones, secondary metabolites and plant enzymes, which both the plant and soil can use.
Then what do I feed them? Just Molasses and water?
 

gladstoned

Well-Known Member
I have an organic question as well.
I have a friend starting out with organics. He is waiting for internet service to get online with us.
I bought him Teaming w/Microbes & True Living Organics to read.
He says he is deathly allergic to fish and crab. Explained how it's crazy bad and he can't even
touch it, or poof he's gone. Are there alternatives for using those products? Are they any good?

I haven't read the entire bag of Fox Farm Ocean Forest ingredients, but that's what he keeps
hauling out of here and using for a few months now. I wonder if he will have an outbreak after
I tell him? That Ocean word right there in the title has me thinking. lmao.
 

abe supercro

Well-Known Member
it's prolly ocean concentrates that he should avoid. there is always the animal products like bone meal, blood meal and bat shit type stuff. kelp and alfalfa should be good.
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
Hemlock: Consider Barley Sprout tea with coconut water and aloe.

Regarding the crab and fish- The crab is very specific to the pest control. It's just there because we want the Chitin protein in the shell.

In my opinion, feeding the plant fish and shell couldn't possibly absorb straight fish and shell into the plant, so the risk to the allergy is about zero. My opinion.
 

gladstoned

Well-Known Member
Hemlock: Consider Barley Sprout tea with coconut water and aloe.

Regarding the crab and fish- The crab is very specific to the pest control. It's just there because we want the Chitin protein in the shell.

In my opinion, feeding the plant fish and shell couldn't possibly absorb straight fish and shell into the plant, so the risk to the allergy is about zero. My opinion.
Thank you for explaining the crab shell. That's huge.
He isn't worried about it getting into the system of the plant, then transferred through smoking. That is exactly what I thought too. lmao.
He is worried about handling the soil. He says touching soil with it is crazy bad for him.
I'm downstairs now reading a bag of Ocean Forest.
Here are the obvious bad ones for him: Pacific Northwest sea-going fish emulsion, crab meal, shrimp meal, oyster shell.
lmao. I will text him and let him know he better get to a hospital as soon as possible.
Too funny. We had this conversation literally standing next to a stack of this shit and it didn't dawn on me till this morning.
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
Ah! Well there's always a possibility for contamination if you run your hands through the soil then on the bud. Otherwise all these amendments are added to the soil and then it cooks for weeks. Contamination risk seems awfully low, since the soil is just resting there, and you're not amending with more crab, etc. Or is this guy handling the soil? He must have a real immune system issue.
 

gladstoned

Well-Known Member
This guy is handling the soil. He believed he was so allergic that touching the soil would allow something like crab meal or
fish emulsions to leak through his pores like when I was younger handling acid.
I called him and apparently he isn't as bad as originally thought. lol.
It is good to know I can now count on him on mixing day. :wink:

I will get him some latex gloves for him and his friends to blow up into turkeys, and
he can/should use them during transplanting when he will be playing in dirt for
extended periods of time.

He is reading the books with me and going to try this form of growing exclusively. (I
grow is hydro as well. 100% non-organic) I am glad we can move on from this, obviously
it was a concern of his.
 
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