The Gold Problem ...

ViRedd

New Member
By Ludwig von Mises
http://www.mises.org/story/2660

Why have a monetary system based on gold? Because, as conditions are today and for the time that can be foreseen today, the gold standard alone makes the determination of money's purchasing power independent of the ambitions and machinations of governments, of dictators, of political parties, and of pressure groups. The gold standard alone is what the nineteenth-century freedom-loving leaders (who championed representative government, civil liberties, and prosperity for all) called "sound money."


The eminence and usefulness of the gold standard consists in the fact that it makes the supply of money depend on the profitability of mining gold, and thus checks large-scale inflationary ventures on the part of governments.

The gold standard did not fail. Governments deliberately sabotaged it, and still go on sabotaging it. But no government is powerful enough to destroy the gold standard so long as the market economy is not entirely suppressed by the establishment of socialism in every part of the world.

Governments believe that it is the gold standard's fault alone that their inflationary schemes not only fail to produce the expected benefits, but unavoidably bring about conditions that (also in the eyes of the rulers themselves and most of the people) are considered as much worse than the alleged or real evils they were designed to eliminate. Except for the gold standard, governments are told by pseudo-economists that they could make everybody perfectly prosperous. Let us test the three doctrines advanced for the support of this fable of government omnipotence.

1. The Fiction of Government Omnipotence

"The state is God," said Ferdinand Lassalle, the founder of the German socialist movement. As such, the state has the power to "create" unlimited quantities of money and thus to make everybody happy. Intrepid and clear-headed people branded such a policy of "creating" money as inflation. The official terminology calls it nowadays "deficit spending."

But whatever the name used in dealing with this phenomenon may be, its meaning is obvious. The government increases the quantity of money in circulation. Then a greater quantity of money "chases" (as a rather silly but popular way of talking about these problems says) a quantity of goods and services that has not been increased. The government's action did not add anything to the available amount of useful things and services. It merely made the prices paid for them soar.

If the government wishes to raise the income of some people, for example, government employees, it has to confiscate by taxation a part of some other people's incomes, and then distribute the amount collected to its employees or favored groups. Then the taxpayers are forced to restrict their spending, while the recipients of the higher salaries or benefits are increasing their spending to the same amount. There does not result a conspicuous change in the purchasing power of the monetary unit.

But if the government provides the money it wants for the payment of higher salaries by printing it or the granting of additional credits, the new money in the hands of these beneficiaries constitutes on the market an additional demand for the not-increased quantity of goods and services offered for sale. The unavoidable result is a general tendency of prices to rise.

Any attempts the governments and their propaganda offices make to conceal this concatenation of events are in vain. Deficit spending means increasing the quantity of money in circulation. That the official terminology avoids calling it inflation is of no avail whatever.
The government and its chiefs do not have the powers of the mythical Santa Claus. They cannot spend except by taking out of the pockets of some people for the benefit of others.

2. The "Cheap-Money" Fallacy

Interest is the difference in the valuation of present goods and future goods; it is the discount in the valuation of future goods as against that of present goods. Interest cannot be "abolished" as long as people prefer an apple available today to an apple available only in a year, in ten years, or in a hundred years.

The height of the originary rate of interest,[1] which is the main component of the market rate of interest as determined on the loan market, reflects the difference in the people's valuation of present and future satisfaction of needs. The disappearance of interest, that is, an interest rate of zero, would mean that people do not care a whit about satisfying any of their present wants and are exclusively intent upon satisfying their future wants, their wants of the later years, decades, and centuries to come. People would only save and invest and would not be consuming.

On the other hand, if people were to stop saving, that is, making any provision for the future, be it even the future of the tomorrow, and would not save at all and consume all capital goods accumulated by previous generations, the rate of interest would rise beyond any limits.
It is thus obvious that the height of the market rate of interest ultimately does not depend on the whims, fancies, and the pecuniary interests of the personnel operating the government apparatus of coercion and compulsion, the much-referred-to "public sector" of the economy. But the government has the power to push the Federal Reserve System, and the banks subject to it, into a policy of cheap money. Then the banks are expanding credit. Underbidding the rate of interest as established on the not-manipulated loan market, they offer additional credit created out of nothing.

Thus they are inescapably falsifying the businessmen's estimation of market conditions. Although the supply of capital goods (that can only be increased by additional saving) remained unchanged, the illusion of a richer supply of capital is conjured up. Business is induced to embark upon projects which a sober calculation, not misled by the cheap-money ventures, would have disclosed as mal-investments (over-investment in capital). The additional quantities of credit inundating the market make prices and wages soar. An artificial boom, a boom built entirely upon the illusions of ample and easy money, develops. But such a boom cannot last. Sooner or later it must become clear that, under the illusions created by the credit expansion, business has embarked upon projects for the execution of which the real savings are not rich enough. When this mal-investment becomes visible, the boom collapses.

The depression that follows is the process of liquidating the errors committed in the excesses of the artificial boom; it is the return to calm reasoning and a reasonable conduct of affairs within the limits of the available supply of capital goods. It is a painful process, but it is a process of restoration of business health.

Credit expansion is not a nostrum to make people happy. The boom it engenders must inevitably lead to a debacle and unhappiness.

If it were really possible to substitute credit expansion (cheap money) for the accumulation of capital goods by saving, there would not be any poverty in the world. The economically backward nations would not have to complain about the insufficiency of their capital equipment. All they would have to do for the improvement of their conditions would be to expand money and credit more and more. No "foreign aid" schemes would have emerged. But in granting foreign aid to the backward nations, the American government implicitly acknowledges that credit expansion is no real substitute for genuine capital accumulation through saving.
 

ViRedd

New Member
3. The Failure of Minimum Wage Legislation and of Union Coercion

The height of wage rates is determined by the consumers' appraisal of the value the worker's labor adds to the value of the article available for sale. As the immense majority of the consumers are themselves earners of wages and salaries, this means that the determination of the compensation for work and services rendered is made by the same kind of people who are receiving these wages and salaries. The fat earnings of the movie star and the boxing champion are provided by the welders, street sweepers, and charwomen who attend the performances and matches.

An entrepreneur who would try to pay a hired man less than the amount this man's work adds to the value of the product would be priced out of the labor market by the competition of other entrepreneurs eager to earn money. On the other hand, no entrepreneur can pay more to his helpers than the amount the consumers are prepared to refund to him in buying the product. If he were to pay higher wages, he would suffer losses and would be ejected from the ranks of the businessmen.

Governments decreeing minimum wage laws above the level of the market rates restrict the number of hands that can find jobs. Such governments are producing unemployment of a part of the labor force. The same is true for what is euphemistically called "collective bargaining."

The only difference between the two methods concerns the apparatus enforcing the minimum wage. The government enforces its orders in resorting to policemen and prison guards. The unions "picket." They and their members and officials have acquired the power and the right to commit wrongs to person and property, to deprive individuals of the means of earning a livelihood, and to commit many other acts which no one can do with impunity.[2] Nobody is today in a position to disobey an order issued by a union. To the employers no other choice is left than either to surrender to the dictates of the unions or to go out of business.

But governments and unions are impotent against economic law. Violence can prevent the employers from hiring help at potential market rates, but it cannot force them to employ all those who are anxious to get jobs. The result of the governments' and the unions' meddling with the height of wage rates cannot be anything else than an incessant increase in the number of unemployed.

It is precisely to prevent this outcome that the government-manipulated banking systems of all Western nations are resorting to inflation. Increasing the quantity of money in circulation and thereby lowering the purchasing power of the monetary unit, they are cutting down the oversized payrolls to a height consonant with the state of the market. This is today called Keynesian full-employment policy. It is in fact a method to perpetuate by continued inflation the futile attempts of governments and labor unions to meddle with the conditions of the labor market. As soon as the progress of inflation has adjusted wage rates so far as to avoid a spread of unemployment, government and unions resume with renewed zeal their ventures to raise wage rates above the level at which every job-seeker can find a job.

The experience of this age of the New Deal, the Fair Deal, the New Frontier, and the Great Society confirms the fundamental thesis of the true British lovers of political liberty in the nineteenth century, namely, that there is but one means to improve the material conditions of all of the wage earners, viz., to increase the per-head quota of real capital invested. This result can only be brought about by additional saving and capital accumulation, never by government decrees, labor-union violence and intimidation, and inflation. The foes of the gold standard are wrong also in this regard.

4. The Inescapable Consequence, namely, the United States Government Gold Holdings Will Shrink

In many parts of the earth an increasing number of people realize that the United States and most of the other nations are firmly committed to a policy of progressing inflation. They have learned enough from the experience of the recent decades to conclude that on account of these inflationary policies an ounce of gold will one day become more expensive in terms both of the currency of the United States and of their own country. They are alarmed and would like to avoid being victimized by this outcome.
Americans were once forbidden to own gold coins and gold ingots (from 1933 to 1976). Their attempts to protect their financial assets consisted in the methods that the Germans in the most spectacular inflation that history knows called "Flucht in die Sachwerte" (flight into real values). They are investing in common stocks and real estate, and prefer to have debts payable in legal tender money rather than holding claims payable in it.

Even in the countries in which people are free to buy gold there are not yet (1965) conspicuous purchases of gold on the part of financially potent individuals and institutions. Up to the moment at which French agencies began to buy gold, the buyers of gold were mostly people with modest incomes anxious to keep a few gold coins as a reserve for rainy days. It was the purchases via the London gold market on the part of such people that reduced the gold holdings of the United States.

There is only one method available to prevent a further reduction of the American gold reserve, namely, radical abandonment of deficit spending as well as of any kind of "easy-money" policy.

Ludwig von Mises (1881–1973) was dean of the Austrian School. Comment on the blog.
This article originally appeared in The Freeman, June, 1965. Minor editing was done for its inclusion in Planning for Freedom, pp. 179–187.
 

medicineman

New Member
This is an 1965 article: The only problem with gold is not having enough of it. The premis of the article is that wages are artificially inflated by unions etc., not that Unions are the only road up for workers. Without unions, this country would be a country of 5.00 an hour workers and 10.00 an hour supervisors and Millionaire business owners. The current housing situation, prefaced by greedy real estate agents and speculators, has eliminated from buying a house all first time buyers that make less than 80-100K a year, so basically the American dream has turned into a nightmare for the proletariot. Yeah, the problem with gold is still the lack of it.
 

Plato Is Boring

Well-Known Member
How can anyone take this shit seriously when everything is laid out in simplistic terms as those are? Where are the formulas, charts, or models? He wrote this thirty years after he was even briefly relevant. After The Theory of Money and Credit, he became a nobody in the field of economics and a hero to libertarians who needed someone to explain monetary policy to them. You will not live to see the day when we tie our currency to a commodity. You wouldn't have been able to tell 9/11 from 1907.
 

HumboldtGreenz

Well-Known Member
We don't use the old fashioned gold standard anymore.

I'm too lazy to read that, sorry if that article already mentioned that.
 

ViRedd

New Member
How can anyone take this shit seriously when everything is laid out in simplistic terms as those are? Where are the formulas, charts, or models? He wrote this thirty years after he was even briefly relevant. After The Theory of Money and Credit, he became a nobody in the field of economics and a hero to libertarians who needed someone to explain monetary policy to them. You will not live to see the day when we tie our currency to a commodity. You wouldn't have been able to tell 9/11 from 1907.
Plato ...

Know what would really be cool? ... If you would take Mises on point by point and refute the article. I'd really be interested if you would. Mises writes in very simplistic terms, so it shouldn't be to difficult to tear his theories to shreds.

There are economists who rely on charts and models ... and then there are those who rely on history and common sense. Keyenes used charts and models ... and the OVERALL national debt is what?

Not disputing you ... or putting you ideas down. I'm just curious, that's all. :)

Vi
 

Plato Is Boring

Well-Known Member
Vi, I really hate to disagree with you because I think you're one of the brightest guys on here. I have a lot of respect for you and it's very apparent that you're well read. I happen to believe that we share a lot of the same beliefs, so I hope you don't take offense to anything I ever post, including this: All economists, including Mises, rely on charts and models - economic forecasting. This is not an economics piece; rather, it's a political piece. You will find his descriptions in introductory or survey economics courses in high school. You want me to refutiate Mises? How do you propose we should respond to painful market fluctuations or downturns quickly? There are no absolutes, no right or wrongs. Keynes, like Mises, isn't relevant either except for political ideological ends. Monetary rules today and it will continue to rule tomorrow. Fiscal policies are only relevant to the extent they set priorities. You will not see me praise Bush the way you have. Unlike you, I'm not in support of the man at the top who is resorting to Keynesian polices (short-run - cut T, raise G = deficit spending to stimulate economic growth). So if you're upset over the national debt don't blame Keynes, he never spent one dime. Why not blame the guy you support who has seen it double under him? Keynesian policies do work to a limited extent, but not too well. Government is slow, riddled with bureaucracy idleness, and changes due to political wind. I support an active central bank who is able to tweak interest rates through ffr in order to have an immediate impact. The only substantial charges of The Fed resorting to political play was made by liberals against Greenspan regarding GWB (I don't buy it though). By substantial, I mean those that don't include rhetoric like "illuminati", "new world order" or "jewish bankers."
 

ViRedd

New Member
Vi, I really hate to disagree with you because I think you're one of the brightest guys on here. I have a lot of respect for you and it's very apparent that you're well read. I happen to believe that we share a lot of the same beliefs, so I hope you don't take offense to anything I ever post, including this: All economists, including Mises, rely on charts and models - economic forecasting. This is not an economics piece; rather, it's a political piece. You will find his descriptions in introductory or survey economics courses in high school. You want me to refutiate Mises? How do you propose we should respond to painful market fluctuations or downturns quickly? There are no absolutes, no right or wrongs. Keynes, like Mises, isn't relevant either except for political ideological ends. Monetary rules today and it will continue to rule tomorrow. Fiscal policies are only relevant to the extent they set priorities. You will not see me praise Bush the way you have. Unlike you, I'm not in support of the man at the top who is resorting to Keynesian polices (short-run - cut T, raise G = deficit spending to stimulate economic growth). So if you're upset over the national debt don't blame Keynes, he never spent one dime. Why not blame the guy you support who has seen it double under him? Keynesian policies do work to a limited extent, but not too well. Government is slow, riddled with bureaucracy idleness, and changes due to political wind. I support an active central bank who is able to tweak interest rates through ffr in order to have an immediate impact. The only substantial charges of The Fed resorting to political play was made by liberals against Greenspan regarding GWB (I don't buy it though). By substantial, I mean those that don't include rhetoric like "illuminati", "new world order" or "jewish bankers."
Thanks, Plato ...

No offense taken at all ... and thanks for the kind words too. My respects to you as well. :)

I admit, I'm a LOT more into the politics of economics than the mathematics. The math stuff bores me to death ... with the charts and graphs and such. I love reading the works of the economists of the Austrian school of thought. Their ideas just seem to me to be more conducive to liberty. From what I've read, regarding the gold standard, the separation of gold from currency, in essence, is socialized money and puts government in charge of the citizen's money. It allowed government to inflate at will in order to build a welfare state. And, according to what I've read, every totalitarian state has removed precious metal as the benchmark for the same reasons.

On Bush ...

I've said many times that I support him on very limited terms. His spending spree isn't one of the areas I support. *lol*

Vi
 

Plato Is Boring

Well-Known Member
Thanks, Plato ...

No offense taken at all ... and thanks for the kind words too. My respects to you as well. :)

I admit, I'm a LOT more into the politics of economics than the mathematics. The math stuff bores me to death ... with the charts and graphs and such. I love reading the works of the economists of the Austrian school of thought. Their ideas just seem to me to be more conducive to liberty. From what I've read, regarding the gold standard, the separation of gold from currency, in essence, is socialized money and puts government in charge of the citizen's money. It allowed government to inflate at will in order to build a welfare state. And, according to what I've read, every totalitarian state has removed precious metal as the benchmark for the same reasons.

On Bush ...

I've said many times that I support him on very limited terms. His spending spree isn't one of the areas I support. *lol*

Vi
Vi, the mathematics bores us all. I'm only twenty-one, and I've come from a background where I haven't had to provide much for myself. So you should be well assured that your opinions and beliefs carry quite a bit more weight than mine do. I've had to care for no one, including myself. I've been able to hold my egalitarian beliefs while not being responsible to anyone. With all that said, I believe I will always hold equality of opportunity ideals very close. Friedman, Rothbard, Hayek, and Mises have never been able to provide as much comfort to me as Galbraith has. :peace: to you.
 

medicineman

New Member
And I thought the gold standard was about growing!
LOL, yeah growing in value. :We should have mortgaged the house in the 60s and bought as much as we could
1833-49* 18.93 1901 18.98 1953 34.84 2005 444.74
1850 18.93 1902 18.97 1954 35.04 2006 603.46
1851 18.93 1903 18.95 1955 35.03
1852 18.93 1904 18.96 1956 34.99
1853 18.93 1905 18.92 1957 34.95
1854 18.93 1906 18.90 1958 35.10
1855 18.93 1907 18.94 1959 35.10
1856 18.93 1908 18.95 1960 35.27
1857 18.93 1909 18.96 1961 35.25
1858 18.93 1910 18.92 1962 35.23
1859 18.93 1911 18.92 1963 35.09
1860 18.93 1912 18.93 1964 35.10
1861 18.93 1913 18.92 1965 35.12
1862 18.93 1914 18.99 1966 35.13
1863 18.93 1915 18.99 1967 34.95
1864 18.93 1916 18.99 1968 39.31
1865 18.93 1917 18.99 1969 41.28
1866 18.93 1918 18.99 1970 36.02
1867 18.93 1919 19.95 1971 40.62
1868 18.93 1920 20.68 1972 58.42
1869 18.93 1921 20.58 1973 97.39
1870 18.93 1922 20.66 1974 154.00
1871 18.93 1923 21.32 1975 160.86
1872 18.94 1924 20.69 1976 124.74
1873 18.94 1925 20.64 1977 147.84
1874 18.94 1926 20.63 1978 193.40
1875 18.94 1927 20.64 1979 306.00
1876 18.94 1928 20.66 1980 615.00
1877 18.94 1929 20.63 1981 460.00
1878 18.94 1930 20.65 1982 376.00
1879 18.94 1931 17.06 1983 424.00
1880 18.94 1932 20.69 1984 361.00
1881 18.94 1933 26.33 1985 317.00
1882 18.94 1934 34.69 1986 368.00
1883 18.94 1935 34.84 1987 447.00
1884 18.94 1936 34.87 1988 437.00
1885 18.94 1937 34.79 1989 381.00
1886 18.94 1938 34.85 1990 383.51
1887 18.94 1939 34.42 1991 362.11
1888 18.94 1940 33.85 1992 343.82
1889 18.93 1941 33.85 1993 359.77
1890 18.94 1942 33.85 1994 384.00
1891 18.96 1943 33.85 1995** 383.79
1892 18.96 1944 33.85 1996 387.81
1893 18.96 1945 34.71 1997 331.02
1894 18.94 1946 34.71 1998 294.24
1895 18.93 1947 34.71 1999 278.98
1896 18.98 1948 34.71 2000 279.11
1897 18.98 1949 31.69 2001 271.04
1898 18.98 1950 34.72 2002 309.73
1899 18.94 1951 34.72 2003 363.38
1900 18.96 1952 34.60 2004 409.72
**Prices from 1995-2006, Kitco.com, based on the London PM fix.
*Prices from 1883-1994, World Gold Council. Taken from Timothy Green's
Historical Gold Price Table , London prices converted to U.S.
Dollars.

The price of gold remained remarkably stable for long periods of time. For example, Sir Isaac Newton, as master of the U.K.
Mint, set the gold price at L3.17s. 10d. per troy ounce in 1717, and it remained effectively the same for two hundred years
until 1914. The only exception was during the Napoleonic wars from 1797 to 1821. The official U.S. Government gold price
has changed only four times from 1792 to the present. Starting at $19.75 per troy ounce, raised to $20.67 in 1834, and $35
in 1934. In 1972, the price was raised to $38 and then to $42.22 in 1973. A two-tiered pricing system was created in 1968,
and the market price for gold has been free to fluctuate since then as the table below shows.
HISTORICAL GOLD PRICES- 1833 to Present​
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 

closet.cult

New Member
admittedly, i have NO schooling in monetary theories. but if anyone does, please explain: why does the idea of having paper money based on an existing valuable commodity, like gold, sound very appealing to me and so many others?

it honestly makes good sense to me, to back up our money with something real.

example: and this point was key to me; if printing money could solve the problem of deficit, there would be no poor nations. 'poor' meaning they have no resources to produce, therefore no money to buy to things with, therefore not even much to buy. so, let's say a small African village solves it's 'poorness' by printing a million 'dollars' for each family, and gives them all paper money. But, there's only one store in the village. now everyone want's the one gallon of milk in this store, and they're all millionaires...trust me, it's not going to cost $3 anymore. And once the store owner gets millions of paper dollars from the villagers, what does he spend it on? The are no more goods in the village, just more paper. When he tries to go to the next village to buy more goods to stock his shop, will they accept his paper dollars? No. His paper holds no value in their village, where they will need to buy goods.

that's how inflation results from printed money, as i understand it. the money printed isn't tied to anything. so it's just paper. paper can only have value if it represents something of 'real' value. like a paper stock representing your share of ownership in a company. or a paper deed representing 'real' estate.

the gold standard makes 'real' sense to me. anyone care to give a simple explanation of its short-comings. i'm all ears.
 

7xstall

Well-Known Member
"the gold standard makes 'real' sense to me. anyone care to give a simple explanation of its short-comings. i'm all ears."


while i agree with your opinion on this, the case of the anti-gold standard establishment is based on the idea that credit can be a useful tool to stave off short term economic inadequacies by artificially generating "valued" tender. our massive government latched on to that and quickly created cycles of credit debt that span multiple generations. like a heroin addict they don't want to come off the system that has empowered them.

with a gold standard credit becomes much tighter, bills have to be paid off in the shorter term - in short, people have to be responsible... that's not good for massive government.






.
 

medicineman

New Member
"the gold standard makes 'real' sense to me. anyone care to give a simple explanation of its short-comings. i'm all ears."


while i agree with your opinion on this, the case of the anti-gold standard establishment is based on the idea that credit can be a useful tool to stave off short term economic inadequacies by artificially generating "valued" tender. our massive government latched on to that and quickly created cycles of credit debt that span multiple generations. like a heroin addict they don't want to come off the system that has empowered them.

with a gold standard credit becomes much tighter, bills have to be paid off in the shorter term - in short, people have to be responsible... that's not good for massive government.

Facts is facts: There is not enough gold on the planet to back all the US currency in circulation, unless you find the Inca stash. There is more gold in the Inca stash that there is existing everywhere else. ask me how I know,~LOL~.



.
.........................
 

closet.cult

New Member
"the gold standard makes 'real' sense to me. anyone care to give a simple explanation of its short-comings. i'm all ears."


while i agree with your opinion on this, the case of the anti-gold standard establishment is based on the idea that credit can be a useful tool to stave off short term economic inadequacies by artificially generating "valued" tender. our massive government latched on to that and quickly created cycles of credit debt that span multiple generations. like a heroin addict they don't want to come off the system that has empowered them.

with a gold standard credit becomes much tighter, bills have to be paid off in the shorter term - in short, people have to be responsible... that's not good for massive government.
thanks for the insite. but...resposibility?!?!? who do they think we are?!?! no wonder they switched!

seriously, even by this description, i prefer the idea of a gold standard. i'm sure a system of credit could be arrange with it.
 

closet.cult

New Member
Facts is facts: There is not enough gold on the planet to back all the US currency in circulation, unless you find the Inca stash.
yes, i read in that article that in order to print money it would be the responsibility of the government to mine more gold to back it.

or perhaps buy it. or perhaps we could include other precious metals. it seems to me that even though the system is 'old' its not antiquated or obsolete.
 

7xstall

Well-Known Member
thanks for the insite. but...resposibility?!?!? who do they think we are?!?! no wonder they switched!

seriously, even by this description, i prefer the idea of a gold standard. i'm sure a system of credit could be arrange with it.
yeah, it's just common sense that money should be a finite resource...

what value does something infinite have? nothing, unless you're the one controlling it. :)






.
 

closet.cult

New Member
yeah, it's just common sense that money should be a finite resource...

what value does something infinite have? nothing, unless you're the one controlling it. :).
right. i believe it was Rockafeller who said, "give me control of a country's money, and I care not who writes the laws."
 

7xstall

Well-Known Member
i am only left thinking that the shift from the gold standard was an intentional move. surely they realized that once they seized control of the money they were enslaving every citizen.

i can't really figure out any angle from which to surmise that there was any other intent.






.
 

closet.cult

New Member
i am only left thinking that the shift from the gold standard was an intentional move. surely they realized that once they seized control of the money they were enslaving every citizen.

i can't really figure out any angle from which to surmise that there was any other intent.
i watched Aaron Russo's 'America: Freedom to Facism'. it outlines that very argument. the day the IRS began illegally taxing american's wages was a red letter date in losses of our freedom.

how about that quote from Wooddrow Wilson expressing regret:

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." -Woodrow Wilson, after signing the Federal Reserve into existence

that says it all, mate.
 
Top