This isn't over.

hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I wasn't accusing you of trolling, I was responding to the characterization of Trump's attempt at a coup as "trolling".
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Anything Trump does is a troll at the end of the day.

Fogdog said:
I think we are on thin ice. Trump's team is seeking to appeal decisions in lower courts and he is seeking to have it end up in the Supreme court. Outside of the courts, Trump is calling and pressuring elections officials and state lawmakers to overturn state election results. Would you doubt that Trump is doing things under the table too?
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For the last 4 years it has been nonstop thin ice because of him, I didn't ever think these last couple months would be any different.

This is why I kept saying that I understood what Comey did. I think he was even surprised by Trump's shamelessness at spewing nonsense. As were a lot of people. Unless you have experienced the idiocy of trolls. Then it was not very surprising at all.



But it doesn't mean that at the end of the day, they are any different. It might be utterly destructive to our republic if this happens, but it doesn't mean they are not the same principle and should be treated with anything but any other troll should be treated.

I have no doubt that Trump is trying everything he can to illegally keep power. He has continuously broken our laws the last 4 years.

But I am equally sure that his secondary plan is to make it look like he can steal the election. That perception is where the real danger lies, because his cultists are fricken nuts.

Fogdog said:
I'm not saying the sky is falling and doing the Chicken Little act. I will say that this is fairly thin ice that we are on. Thank goodness that the election wasn't close enough to make Trump's threat more likely to succeed.
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Ahmen to that. This was always a need to win big scenario for Biden. Fortunately for the world, that is exactly what Biden had done.

Fogdog said:
It's a clear signal that we should end the Electoral College too. None of these shenanigans could have taken place if the election were decided at the national level.
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Sure they could, he could be in court trying to get millions of votes in a couple cities thrown out. Instead of focusing on minority cities, he would be targeting New York and cities in California. I don't think it would make any real difference when it comes to nonsensical election lawsuits.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Well, no you could answer. The topic was "why would YOU care".

Are you saying you don't even own your own mind now and you could only speculate on what your thoughts were, slave ?
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i'm thinking taking the Rams with the 4.5pts vs the Bucs. Thoughts?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
Anything Trump does is a troll at the end of the day.



For the last 4 years it has been nonstop thin ice because of him, I didn't ever think these last couple months would be any different.

This is why I kept saying that I understood what Comey did. I think he was even surprised by Trump's shamelessness at spewing nonsense. As were a lot of people. Unless you have experienced the idiocy of trolls. Then it was not very surprising at all.



But it doesn't mean that at the end of the day, they are any different. It might be utterly destructive to our republic if this happens, but it doesn't mean they are not the same principle and should be treated with anything but any other troll should be treated.

I have no doubt that Trump is trying everything he can to illegally keep power. He has continuously broken our laws the last 4 years.

But I am equally sure that his secondary plan is to make it look like he can steal the election. That perception is where the real danger lies, because his cultists are fricken nuts.


Ahmen to that. This was always a need to win big scenario for Biden. Fortunately for the world, that is exactly what Biden had done.


Sure they could, he could be in court trying to get millions of votes in a couple cities thrown out. Instead of focusing on minority cities, he would be targeting New York and cities in California. I don't think it would make any real difference when it comes to nonsensical election lawsuits.
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Nope, no way would an attempt to disenfranchise 8 million voters be possible. What is possible is a corrupt official who throws out 300,000 votes in a district that supported Biden by more than 70% thereby flipping Michigan and its EC votes to Trump. What is possible is a court ruling in PA that invalidates the vote and the legislature awards Trump the Electoral College votes from that state. The way for a minority to defeat the majority in a US presidential election is through the EC. The Electoral College has no value and adds risk to our country. It has to go.

Directly attacking the legitimacy of this election is different from his other abuses of power. His other abuses of power rested on his election in 2016. He legitimately could claim the powers of the President through an election. Nobody seriously doubted that he won that election. Now that he lost an election, he's acting without any justification other than raw power. That said, he's been telling us all along that he would only accept an election result if he won. So, now, he's doing what he said he'd do. Republicans are all for it. So, we are in dangerous waters.
 
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schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
It’s not the follower of laws, IMO, you should be worried about right now. The GOP has lost their collective minds at this point. The more they stay silent about this bullshit the more validity they add to the lie. The fuckwads are thinking they are saving the US from hell and “Their” president is not saying different. He’s defcon 3 away from starting a very dangerous situation.
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he's holding out for the deal he won't get- not to be prosecuted in any way by any one..in the mean time he's going to be by far the biggest cunt you've ever seen, every day the pressure increasing; crazier and crazier like pardoning 'most wanted list' types..Ted, El Chapo, Olympic Park Bomber, Shoe Bomber, Boston Bomber.

one thing or the other will happen.
 
TrippleDip

TrippleDip

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
Do you think that you fall into the false narratives that the people pushing the propaganda hope that you do about any of the 'isms'?
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I think there is an ongoing war against the proper use of precise language. People:

1) don't want to put their ideas forth where they can be challenged - hence hiding behind "fighting racism" (meaningless phrase) rather than simply give the concrete belief of what should come from their choice of action and explain *why* they think that choice of action is right.

Eg. Different groups have different ways that they want to effect the world, but their mission statements are always leave you wondering what their actual position is.

2) people don't want to have to attack other's arguments directly so they use mushy meaningless words like racist which are supposed to illicit an *emotional* response and to which you are not supposed to be able to defend against - how can you defend yourself against charges if the charges themselves are not defined.

3) I think that proper use of precise language at a young age is one of the building blocks for being able to effect the change you want in the world, to be able to become a doer rather than follower. To writ, how can you change the world if you can't begin to describe what's wrong and how you will fix it.

"Ending racism" for example is not a goal, there's no specific end game and no route to get there. Reducing economic or educational disparities are goals however and people can disagree on how to get there and can weigh the various merits of different choices.

Before I go further, I want to say this is decidedly non partisan. Even though I picked racism as an example this could apply to anything and these are tools used by anyone that wants power over another.

And so to answer your question - yes, because you cannot argue with someone who doesn't actually want to get anywhere with their arguments (beyond some undefined thing is bad or good). Many (maybe even most) don't even know how to describe what they want and how to get it, and so there's nothing to do but get the same repeated insults thrown at you with no explanation of how they even fit.
 
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schuylaar

Well-Known Member
captainmorgan said:
Our country was built with the idea of trust and cooperation between the political parties for the common good of both sides. If one side says fuck it the system is broken and may never recover.
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that's why it's so concerning the framers never in their wildest dreams considered two of the three co-equals aligning themselves against the will of the people and that third co-equal.
 
TrippleDip

TrippleDip

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
It's a lot more complicated than that, there's conditioning involved and it operates on a deep subconscious level, we believe the world should be a certain way and of our place in the social order. Often it comes out as an irrational aversion to "socialism", pathological in that it makes no sense for them and they fuck themselves and others too.
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This is what I meant by the above post. You claim people are averse to "socialism", but really people are averse to having what they worked for taken from them and given to people who do not contribute. This seems like a fair position and if you called it what it was it would be a lot clearer.

Now if you want to talk about different types of social safety nets we can talk about the pros and cons of individual plans and look at how people favour them and why, then we can come to a *compromise* that is the best for everyone.

Personally I really like us unemployment (have to pay x to get y back later), and healthcare (save 20k in taxes yearly and get to choose what type of coverage you want, the more valuable you make yourself to an employer the more benefits they will give you, which seems more fair socially than a bum getting the same treatment as a doctor tbh)


DIY-HP-LED said:
This is a struggle for liberal democracy
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Liberal
Meaning free
Meaning free to speak what you want (even hate speech), free to own guns, free to keep your private possessions to yourself (eg no taxes), and freedom to self associate (freedom to hate certain races if you want to)

That liberal democracy?
 
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