Tis the season: bubblelicious and superskunk 400W grow

Kriegs

Well-Known Member
looking great bro, really looks like they bounced back for yah! do you plan on topping or fimm to keep canopy even?
Thanks, Drella.. I'm pretty happy with how the group is looking now.

I was thinking some LST on the two bub's way out front. I'll have to talk my SO into it - she's very fond of the plants in their natural state. Hadn't really thought of topping... hmmmm.
 

Drella

Well-Known Member
yeah i fimmed in my grow when they reached 6". i totally support it. LST rocks too, it's all about keeping the canopy even. no disrepect, but lighting, nutes, etc, growing hasn't been "natural" since the 70's, LOL. we try to keep it as natural as we can, (organic), i just love experimenting. this is my favorite hobby, can't get enough. if you don't train your plants, you can always put the pots up on books or whatever to keep canopy even, good luck!
 

dakin3d

Well-Known Member
Whats goin on, bro? They look like they're doing just fine. Some significant growth in the past week. Anyway, I noticed on your 'basic info' that your water pH is 8.0... Is there a reason why you're comfortable doing this? Obviously, they seen to be growing under the conditions in which your providing, but I was just curious? And FYI, I noticed your multipurpose meter laying in the pic... pH, moisture, light, if it's similar to mine? Just so you're aware, those particular meters don't work worth a damn. Or, at least mine doesn't. Basically, I wouldn't rely on it to troubleshoot any problems. I invested in a decent pH meter, but only b/c I'm going hydro after this grow. I'm well aware how UB feels about pH in soil, but at too high of pH you will start to see some secondary and micronutrient deficiencies.

Btw, you should read up on topping. Considering your setup, ie, 400W lamp, it should benefit you greatly. Also, place your shortest plants directly beneath your lamp and the tallest on the outer edges. If you get familiar with an intensity layout, you will learn that the intensity of the light is dispersed similar to that of a parabola. The most intense directly beneath, and less intense as you stray from the center of the axis. Having your plants in an 'even' canopy across the top actually creates uneven dispersion. If you would like me to elaborate, just let me know.

Hope all is well. Happy New Year, dak
 

Kriegs

Well-Known Member
yeah i fimmed in my grow when they reached 6". i totally support it. LST rocks too, it's all about keeping the canopy even. no disrepect, but lighting, nutes, etc, growing hasn't been "natural" since the 70's, LOL. we try to keep it as natural as we can, (organic), i just love experimenting. this is my favorite hobby, can't get enough. if you don't train your plants, you can always put the pots up on books or whatever to keep canopy even, good luck!
Cool.. I'm about 90% sure those two bigguns will get tied down, at least.

How does FIM affect your whole plant? Slow down the top and push out the bottom branches? I've never done it...

I'm with you; I love this shit too...
 

Kriegs

Well-Known Member
Whats goin on, bro? They look like they're doing just fine. Some significant growth in the past week. Anyway, I noticed on your 'basic info' that your water pH is 8.0... Is there a reason why you're comfortable doing this? Obviously, they seen to be growing under the conditions in which your providing, but I was just curious? And FYI, I noticed your multipurpose meter laying in the pic... pH, moisture, light, if it's similar to mine? Just so you're aware, those particular meters don't work worth a damn. Or, at least mine doesn't. Basically, I wouldn't rely on it to troubleshoot any problems. I invested in a decent pH meter, but only b/c I'm going hydro after this grow. I'm well aware how UB feels about pH in soil, but at too high of pH you will start to see some secondary and micronutrient deficiencies.

Btw, you should read up on topping. Considering your setup, ie, 400W lamp, it should benefit you greatly. Also, place your shortest plants directly beneath your lamp and the tallest on the outer edges. If you get familiar with an intensity layout, you will learn that the intensity of the light is dispersed similar to that of a parabola. The most intense directly beneath, and less intense as you stray from the center of the axis. Having your plants in an 'even' canopy across the top actually creates uneven dispersion. If you would like me to elaborate, just let me know.

Hope all is well. Happy New Year, dak
Hey, Dak... thanks for dropping back in. As always, a thoughtful post from you..

As for pH of 8.0, I'm comfortable with it for two reasons... 1) It's not that far off the ideal of 6.5. The diff between 8.0 and 6.5 is such that any excess alkalinity will be easily buffered by the soil. Typical potting mixes are very heavy in wood- and peat-based organics, which are heavily buffered to the acid side owing to an abundance of humics, fulvics, etc derived from the wood material. Water at pH 8,0 would take years, not months, to exhaust the acids out of a wood-based soil like 98% of the potting soils out there 2) That alkalinity does not come from hydroxide ions (OH-), which are a strong base. It comes from a weak-base constituent they use in our water system (can't recall it). Even if it was hydroxide, #1 would trump this anyway.

PH'ing your water is, I think, a good idea if your water is 4.0 or 10.0 (which it is in some places). I also like the idea for nute solutions, which can be outrageously acid. But it's not worth the trouble otherwise.

I've had runoff pH's in my last grow that were very acid (same pH 8.0 water going in, though). That testifies to the tendency of wood-based mixtures to go the other way. Going "too basic" is the last of my worries.

Just food for thought, about 90% of the plants of the world share the "ideal pH" of 6.5. Yet, MJ is the only one in our gardens for which we give one whiff of thought to what our incoming water pH is.

As for the meter, I never use it for pH. The light and moisture functions work well, though, and have served me at several points. My policy is .. if a pH meter cost you less than $200, it's a piece of shit not to be trusted. This comes from years of working in analytical chemistry in both field and lab environments. If you want to measure pH cheap, colorimetric methods (strips, tablets, etc) are actually superior to any $50-75 meter.

I can totally visualize the "parabola effect" you mention. Thank you -- good thought. I was just staring at the girls this morning thinking the very thing you suggest (taller plants on fringes). Frankly, I'm too lazy to go for the "even canopy" thing anyway, although I did some LST last year to manage height and light utilization last year, and it worked out huge.

I plan to read up on topping today. So, yeah..

Thanks again for your input... Happy New Year, bro...:bigjoint:
 

Kriegs

Well-Known Member
Been a little quiet in here lately; my pains have been acting up and it's been a week of Doc visits and acupuncture to try to settle things. I FINALLY got someone to take me seriously and order an MRI for next week. I've never gotten results from those things before, but my issues are much worse this time around, and there's always a first time.

Anyhoo, the plants are still doing great. The two tall bub's were getting way out ahead, so I started some LST on them. Well, they squiggled out of position so fast that I quickly realized that I won't have the consistent energy to chase them around the pot every day. Kinda wish I hadn't started it; now they'll always have an S-curve in the main stem. Oh, well...

So, read up on topping and FIM and decided to try the FIM out on two of the bub's ("Blaze's method" - just do a tag search on FIM if interested). I left the superskunks alone for now until they catch up a little bit, but I'm rethinking that cuz if I'm going to do them all, I need to do it now if I want to maintain my plan of going 12/12 by weekend after next. Hmmmm .... decisions.

Pic's to come tonight or tomorrow.
 

Dameon

Well-Known Member
thanks for the advice on the cheap PH meters. I will go and purchase test strips and aquarium test kits after reading this post. Thanks guys!

"The long arc of the universe will always bend towards justice!" -MLK
 

Kriegs

Well-Known Member
thanks for the advice on the cheap PH meters. I will go and purchase test strips and aquarium test kits after reading this post. Thanks guys!

"The long arc of the universe will always bend towards justice!" -MLK
You're welcome. Tablets and strips are plenty-good-enough for soil grows. If you ever decide you want the precision of a meter / go hydro, be sure you spring for a two-point calibration. That will take you up the price scale, but you get what you pay for.
 

Tidalwavedave

Active Member
Looking nice Kriegs. In my opinion topping and fiming hinder the plant to grow for a short period of time atleast a day or so could be more. Lst is amazing I've had good success waiting a couple of weeks before going to flower then tie them over so they bud all the way down the branch. But alot of people have great success with topping and fiming. I get nervous stressing her to much.
 

Kriegs

Well-Known Member
Looking nice Kriegs. In my opinion topping and fiming hinder the plant to grow for a short period of time atleast a day or so could be more. Lst is amazing I've had good success waiting a couple of weeks before going to flower then tie them over so they bud all the way down the branch. But alot of people have great success with topping and fiming. I get nervous stressing her to much.
Thanks, Twd.. things have shaped up fairly after some early struggles, from which I learned some good things for next time.

Yeah, the ones I FIM'ed are just sitting there now. I'm sure they're just re-organizing themselves. I'm still mulling whether to do more.
 

Kriegs

Well-Known Member
Finally found my camera today in the back of a friend's truck; out in the freezing cold since Christmas..

It's a piece of shit compared to my wife's, but it still works as you see. You can all laugh at my first attempts at canopy control.. that's fine. First pic is a bit of a group shot with the tall bub's pulled down a bit. One of those is fimmed, too. The second and third are close-ups of a fimmed bub's -- it looks like I could've taken a little more off, but I suspect it will work out. I see the little side buds starting to emerge.

The biggest bub's looks to have a single male pre-flower, unfortunately. Saw that last year -- biggest most aggressive plants and strugglers went male. All the ones "in the middle" were the fems.

The fourth and fifth pic's show the transplant I made with my little struggler. It regressed recently, showing some interveinal chlorosis again. Maybe I was right about the magnesium imbalance after all. (PS: The temp is actually 78F; the "82" in the pic is a distortion.)

Well, rather than try to constantly negotiate it with epsom salt, I went ahead and transplanted it in MG Organic, and went three gallons while I was at it. No fucked up CaCO3 lime this time - that was dumb. If this works out, I'll put all the superskunks in the MGO when I upcan. If it doesn't work out, no loss - that plant was f'ed up from the git-go. The "cotyledons" came out as one cotyledon with one true leaf. The first pair of leaves came out 2 on one side, 4 on the other. Nice genetics, huh?
 

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Kriegs

Well-Known Member
The fimmed plants are starting to show response now; love it. Surprised to see my transplant on its feet this morning like nothing happened. It was a rough transplant -- the roots hadn't really formed a ball in the 2-gal pot yet, so much of the soil fell away from the roots and I ended up having to put the roots in place in the new pot by hand (very slowly and gently, of couse..). But so far, it really seems to like the new home. I'd feel great if it recovers, goes female, and kicks off some good bud after the rough go its had early.

Got some new 3-gal pots today, too -- really nice squares with great drainage, and some fresh pH strips just to watch runoff pH values and make sure there's no radical pH drops going on in the pots. Had that happen last year, but I'm almost 99% certain that was from overdosing with FF feeds (their liquid products are about pH 2.0 out of the bottle), and not being dialed in to the indoor water demands of the plants.

Pics a little later... just waking up still.
 

Kriegs

Well-Known Member
Okay, 3rd cup of coffee down - now I'm able to stand and move about.

Here's some shots of the fimmed bub's, new branches on one with the weak LST, and my transplant survivor. She looks great actually; no shock whatsoever.

The fimmed tops are starting to roll. Now that I see closely what's going on, I bet I could kick-start that FIM recovery process by a day by taking manicuring scissors and removing those little vestiges of the leaves from the original growth tip. See how the plant is still trying to grow those? Wasted energy that could go into the side buds.

My aborted LST attempt produced some fruit anyway -- you can see two new codominant branches emerging on the bub's. Unfortch, that's the one I'm almost sure has a male pre-flower on it.

You can see how the transplanted one went chlorotic again after having recovered once (you can see one of the leaves from the "recovered phase" lower down the plant); will be interesting to see if this turns the trick for good.

I noticed while I was in there close-up that a lot of the side-branches are going alternate-node; one of the superskunk tops is going alternate, too. 12/12 is just around the corner.

Cheerio.. comments / constructive criticism welcome.
 

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dakin3d

Well-Known Member
K,

They look to be coming along nicely man! I'm still amazed at how fast MJ grows once they 'get their feet under them'. It also looks as if you nailed your FIMing technique on ur plants. Of course they are a little shocked from FIMing, as it's HST, but it pays of in the long term... Assuming you like multiple cola's;)

Keep the updates coming when possible. Sorry to hear that you haven't been feeling well. Smoke em' if you got em'... Unfortunately, I've been dry for 3 mos... Pretty unreal. But all in good time! Cheers, dak
 

snew

Well-Known Member
Great grow. I finally posted mine this week. See what you think. I'll be 3 weeks in flowering tomorrow. All were toped but only 2 seem to take, so i'm interest in seeing what the difference is. Let me know what you think.
 

Kriegs

Well-Known Member
K,

They look to be coming along nicely man! I'm still amazed at how fast MJ grows once they 'get their feet under them'. It also looks as if you nailed your FIMing technique on ur plants. Of course they are a little shocked from FIMing, as it's HST, but it pays of in the long term... Assuming you like multiple cola's;)

Keep the updates coming when possible. Sorry to hear that you haven't been feeling well. Smoke em' if you got em'... Unfortunately, I've been dry for 3 mos... Pretty unreal. But all in good time! Cheers, dak
Hey, dak... thanks for dropping in and the kind words. I'm feeling better now. Dry for 3 months..? Wow... but sometimes it's refreshing, too.

I'm pretty happy with how it's all coming along. And it's even fun to have a little struggler and try to figure out what it wants. Once they push out from that FIM for awhile, it will be 12/12 time.

Question for you: What do you think about transplant timing to your final up-can? I'd like to go to 3-gal, but I don't want to upcan now if there isn't a good reason to. I'd rather wait to see sex and save some work and $.
 

Drella

Well-Known Member
looking great bro, they look like they took well to the fimm. looking good, hope they're all female, do you have room to clone, or have mothers? so you don't have to deal with seed any more.
 

Kriegs

Well-Known Member
looking great bro, they look like they took well to the fimm. looking good, hope they're all female, do you have room to clone, or have mothers? so you don't have to deal with seed any more.
Thanks.. the fim's are growing out by the minute now. I love the fim - gonna be my tool of choice, I think. I'll start earlier next time.

I don't have room for clones really, and I like to take a break for periods. I just need some meds for personal use and a little perk for my closest people; still got plenty from last year.

But, I do want to give one of these plants a run outdoors just cuz I'd like to have some real sun-grown nug. I plan to upcan to 3-gal and at that point, I'll bring the soil up the stem where I can drop the lowest branches into the soil. They'll root out and make a little clone. Low productivity, but very reliable. The other cool thing is that, unlike traditional cloning, "soil layering" is best done immediately post-sexing, so you eliminate taking unsexed clones.

It's totally small-batch. If you want any more than a few clones, it's not the way to go. But the ones you get have very high viability because you follow the cloning path the plant has in nature.

Check out the RIU FAQ section on soil layering, if ur interested.
 
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