Too Early & Too Big, Need Advice

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
I'd top it. No harm until flowering. I butchered this because I couldn't move it around the house. Today it is over 4' and almost 8' wide. I also train it with water weighing the branches down from a wand. It gets pushed down daily. And split stems can be safely sealed with cinnamon. Be sure to only get it in the split. It is a strong desiccant002.jpg004.jpg001.jpg.
 
Yeah they basically yellow and then turn brown and fall off everyday it's about 4 to 10 leaves I'm using the Flora series but I'm wondering if I'm under feeding them, basically I've been feeding them every other day, and I mix 1 x 5 gallon pot of water using the chart and adding Cal mag, is 5 gallons of water and feed not enough for for 20 gallon pot plants? They basically get three pitchers each of the feed, I went out and got some miracle grow fertilizer with a nitrogen level of 12 to help boost up the N , should i be feeding and watering daily ? Also this is what the girls are looking like now getting up there
 

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dunphy

Well-Known Member
Yeah they basically yellow and then turn brown and fall off everyday it's about 4 to 10 leaves I'm using the Flora series but I'm wondering if I'm under feeding them, basically I've been feeding them every other day, and I mix 1 x 5 gallon pot of water using the chart and adding Cal mag, is 5 gallons of water and feed not enough for for 20 gallon pot plants? They basically get three pitchers each of the feed, I went out and got some miracle grow fertilizer with a nitrogen level of 12 to help boost up the N , should i be feeding and watering daily ? Also this is what the girls are looking like now getting up there
They look a little crowded, Id say the yellowing and falling ones might be ones that are being shaded out and dying not from any nute def. I could be wrong but just looks very bushy.. If it were me I would do a heavy defoliation and get some air flow and sun light into the bottom, Then take a few hours and stretch and tie down everything as wide as I can.
Good luck, sorry I cant be of more help.
 
They look a little crowded, Id say the yellowing and falling ones might be ones that are being shaded out and dying not from any nute def. I could be wrong but just looks very bushy.. If it were me I would do a heavy defoliation and get some air flow and sun light into the bottom, Then take a few hours and stretch and tie down everything as wide as I can.
Good luck, sorry I cant be of more help.
Are you supposed to defoliate in a soiless medium? Is it ok to do so?
 

dunphy

Well-Known Member
Are you supposed to defoliate in a soiless medium? Is it ok to do so?
Yeah, has nothing to do with the medium really, Its all about getting air flow around the plant and letting light penetrate to the lower branches. If you have a leaf that is green, and sun passes through it, every leaf underneath there is only seeing a certain spectrum believe it or not the transpiration turns on and off I think this is some mechanism for the plants breathing rate changes... Im not positive on this, I do know there was something I was reading about having light penetrate a leaf and any leaves catching the remaining light that shown through, will not have its stomata opened, meaning no intake of co2 and/or photosynthesis.... I could be completely wrong but that was my vague understanding of the process... Had some high idea one time because when leaves get light on blue spectrum the stomata open up again, I believe this was because it had evolved with the sky or some shit... Either way... Has nothing to really do with the medium the plant is in, and all to with air flow, and light penetration... Reduces mold/mildew chances and will let the larfy bottom nugs get more light. Sorry for rambling.
 

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
Are you supposed to defoliate in a soiless medium? Is it ok to do so?
outdoors dont, under the suns spectrum the plant can use all its natural regulatory mechanisms properly... it also looks very healthy and if you defol, alot of stored nutritiens will go down the drain


If you have a leaf that is green, and sun passes through it, every leaf underneath there is only seeing a certain spectrum believe it or not the transpiration turns on and off I think this is some mechanism for the plants breathing rate changes... Im not positive on this, I do know there was something I was reading about having light penetrate a leaf and any leaves catching the remaining light that shown through, will not have its stomata opened, meaning no intake of co2 and/or photosynthesis.... I could be completely wrong but that was my vague understanding of the process... Had some high idea one time because when leaves get light on blue spectrum the stomata open up again, I believe this was because it had evolved with the sky or some shit...
correct in a way that blue/UV light induces stomatal opening very strongly, but green counters that a bit. (green penetrates much).
but that doesnt mean the inner leaves cant do photosynthesis because outdoors they get still plenty of light, sun moves, all the blue sky emits light, too, plus theres fluorescence
:peace:
 

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
Yeah they basically yellow and then turn brown and fall off everyday it's about 4 to 10 leaves I'm using the Flora series but I'm wondering if I'm under feeding them,
the bottom inner leaves which are light deprivated will fall off regardless of your feedings... looking good, you can up the charge slightly as the plant matures...
 

pickle408

Member
Defoliating outdoors is unnecessary IMO. Sun provides plenty of light for as many leaves as the plant can grow, defoliating causes stress and stunts growth for a few days. Also, taking off top leaves to allow lower leaves to get light is less efficient due to shadow effect. Indoor is another story, i defoliate the lower half and suckers mid veg and 3 weeks after flipping to flower as artificial light isn't as intense and airflow can become an issue in an enclosed environment.

Yellow/brown/dead leaves take off at first sight.

Good luck brother
 

dunphy

Well-Known Member
Defoliating outdoors is unnecessary IMO. Sun provides plenty of light for as many leaves as the plant can grow, defoliating causes stress and stunts growth for a few days. Also, taking off top leaves to allow lower leaves to get light is less efficient due to shadow effect. Indoor is another story, i defoliate the lower half and suckers mid veg and 3 weeks after flipping to flower as artificial light isn't as intense and airflow can become an issue in an enclosed environment.

Yellow/brown/dead leaves take off at first sight.

Good luck brother

Respectfully going to disagree.. If the plant reaches a certain height and is bushy enough, there is definitely a microclimate inside near the stalk/top of soil, This can cause problems with pests and fungus if not enough air flow, defol does cause some stress but not really saying go too heavy just keep up with it every couple weeks while tying down and spreading out.


I find that the slight stress from defol and allow that airflow and penetration this also depends on where the plants are planted outside.... whether theyre in the open or up against a fence or wall blocking a breeze.. As we've selected more and more potent strains, over years of growing and selecting strains for potency and yield vs. pest and mold/mildew resistance those aspects become more and more important as usually todays strains other than landraces usually arent as well adapted to their environments (especially now that seeds are traded all over the world in a matter of days vs. evolving in certain zones over thousands of years) Idk.. I find that light stress from defol and LST's benefits to far outweigh any stress/shock of it.

Good luck to OP. Sorry for hijacking thread.

Cheers :leaf:
 

Funkentelechy

Active Member
Outdoors it is good to remove yellow leaves and small stuff that is turning yellow from the bottom up, but defoliating top leaves when growing outdoors is unnecessary.
In my opinion defoliation is an indoor thing.
But, to each their own, there is more than one way to skin a cat

Happy growing.
 

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
I'm gonna add my two cents. I opt to heavily defoliate and top a couple times on my bigger plants. the smaller ones I only strip the bottom 6-8" of stem. And I open the inside up. I believe it puts more energy into the tops. "Less mouths to feed." I definitely get denser buds indoors. And bigger outdoors. As well as the real benefits of air flow and full sun penetration. Humidity and calm nights can be a problem here. Here is my mother as an example. Trimmed yesterday. And a small Northern. It all works. Just make sure you have air flow and leaves aren't dying inside. As well as don't let the plants touch the ground. P.S. No waste "Kass.". Recycled in the compost pile. Just fed it 3 males and a wheelbarrow full of trimmings. Peace and safety to all and their gardens.001.jpg002.jpg003.jpg
 

dunphy

Well-Known Member
I'm gonna add my two cents. I opt to heavily defoliate and top a couple times on my bigger plants. the smaller ones I only strip the bottom 6-8" of stem. And I open the inside up. I believe it puts more energy into the tops. "Less mouths to feed." I definitely get denser buds indoors. And bigger outdoors. As well as the real benefits of air flow and full sun penetration. Humidity and calm nights can be a problem here. Here is my mother as an example. Trimmed yesterday. And a small Northern. It all works. Just make sure you have air flow and leaves aren't dying inside. As well as don't let the plants touch the ground. P.S. No waste "Kass.". Recycled in the compost pile. Just fed it 3 males and a wheelbarrow full of trimmings. Peace and safety to all and their gardens.View attachment 4611396View attachment 4611397View attachment 4611398
Nice, Im sure it has a lot to do with where you live as well, some one in a drier sunny climate like arizona or something might get away with it, But for me in new england, you in michigan, and Im sure others in oregon or wa or something for example might benefit from it as well if they are ever battling RH and airflow issues... and really without hauling fans outside your looking at defol and spreading as some of your only options to get some movement in there. Theres also the fact of the co2 surround the leaves needing to be replenished, I believe its way more about airflow than light penetration, but they're all important in their own ways.... again to each their own, whatever works... keep it up... experiment and share the knowledge. Cheers. :leaf:
 
Thank guys, another question should i prune some of the lower branches? Also, I was thinking about digging some holes and just placing the fabric pots in the ground to save on some height but leave some space on the outside to let fresh air in...is that a thing or will it cause more issues ?
 

dunphy

Well-Known Member
Thank guys, another question should i prune some of the lower branches? Also, I was thinking about digging some holes and just placing the fabric pots in the ground to save on some height but leave some space on the outside to let fresh air in...is that a thing or will it cause more issues ?
You can prune anything that you dont think will grow significant size before you have to harvest, you want to get rid of any tiny shoots with low light, that way you can redirect all the energy going toward those shoots into your tops that will actually produce better buds.

As for the buried smart pots... That definitely is a thing, Infact it doesnt just save on height, but the roots will actually grow through the smart pots and into the ground, You do want the benefit of the smart pots so like you said leave enough to allow that air transfer/air pruning but you could bury up to half of the pots height into the ground... This goes for other planters/plastic pots as well, which I just did to a white widow of mine today, and will be doing two others this week or next.
 

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
Thank guys, another question should i prune some of the lower branches? Also, I was thinking about digging some holes and just placing the fabric pots in the ground to save on some height but leave some space on the outside to let fresh air in...is that a thing or will it cause more issues ?
I suggest removing lower branches unless they are as tall or almost as tall as the plant. My first pic is a plant in need of the lower right branch being removed. The other picture is how I always trim during veg. Worked for me since I began doing it.

As far as burying the pots goes. Why are you messing with pots if you're digging holes. The only advantages I see are shorter profile and healthier root temps from being shaded. I would be careful of rot. You won't have airflow without a substantial gap between the pot and hole. And you're providing livi003.jpg004.jpgng space for bugs. But, these are just a hypothesis. Let us know what happens.
Hope all had a safe and happy Fourth. Enjoy the last day of the holiday. peace.
 
Thanks Guys, pruned them up first one ever, very scary, but i hope it goes a long way, looking for quality over quantity. I'm also scared about the plan for tomorrow with the holes, looking to save on some space for the most part and keep them cool. I was thinking about digging a hole and placing a bed a gravel to keep them off the soil and leave about and inch around the pots for some circulation. I too think its Nitrogen, did a top dress of some worm castings a few days back hoping that helps in a week or two
 

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MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
Thanks Guys, pruned them up first one ever, very scary, but i hope it goes a long way, looking for quality over quantity. I'm also scared about the plan for tomorrow with the holes, looking to save on some space for the most part and keep them cool. I was thinking about digging a hole and placing a bed a gravel to keep them off the soil and leave about and inch around the pots for some circulation. I too think its Nitrogen, did a top dress of some worm castings a few days back hoping that helps in a week or two
You might want to try a fish emulsion foliar spray and 1 tsp/gal watering. Should brighten up in two or three days. My favorite bandaid. Works wonders in a hurry.

That's 1 Tbsp/gal. OOPS!
 
You might want to try a fish emulsion foliar spray and 1 tsp/gal watering. Should brighten up in two or three days. My favorite bandaid. Works wonders in a hurry.

That's 1 Tbsp/gal. OOPS!
Going to pick some up today, thanks for the advice! Also, plants look sad as shit today, you think its because of the prune they got yesterday?
 
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