Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize

Wolverine97 said:

Personally, I generally do pretty well in the yield dept using the GO lineup with a few other additives. This latest crop excluded (I had a lazy spell) I average between 1-1.25 gpw. Quality is pretty much second to none. It can be done.

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Jeez, I've gotta try harder, that's awesome. To be honest I didn't even think we could break 1 gpw without a better P source or guanos.

+ WitchDoctor + said:

Jeez, I've gotta try harder, that's awesome. To be honest I didn't even think we could break 1 gpw without a better P source or guanos.

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Sure you can. I start with a fairly well amended soil mix and use the GO as a supplement when the plants start telling me they need it. Canopy control is vital to good wpf numbers though, along with a good environment.

Wolverine97 said:

Sure you can. I start with a fairly well amended soil mix and use the GO as a supplement when the plants start telling me they need it. Canopy control is vital to good wpf numbers though, along with a good environment.

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Yea, you know I got so into my soil and making compost and shit the last few months I haven't even concerned myself with canopy a whole lot. And I haven't been pruning as good as I can either. Still though, you're the man for pulling that much per watt. That'll be my goal for the next round of Blue Dreams and Strawberry Coughs I've got vegging, 1gpw.

Are you using light movers? I just (almost) finished my two side by side rooms...so that I can do all my side by sides in controlled environments. They're both 7'x4'x7. I'm gonna get run 12 plants in each (Mr. Schuette will be so pleased) as soon as I can get the light movers with 600 in one room and 1000 in the other and see if 600 gets the job done. Here's a few pics almost finished. I'm happy so far.
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+ WitchDoctor + said:

Yea, you know I got so into my soil and making compost and shit the last few months I haven't even concerned myself with canopy a whole lot. And I haven't been pruning as good as I can either. Still though, you're the man for pulling that much per watt. That'll be my goal for the next round of Blue Dreams and Strawberry Coughs I've got vegging, 1gpw.

Are you using light movers? I just (almost) finished my two side by side rooms...so that I can do all my side by sides in controlled environments. They're both 7'x4'x7. I'm gonna get run 12 plants in each (Mr. Schuette will be so pleased) as soon as I can get the light movers with 600 in one room and 1000 in the other and see if 600 gets the job done. Here's a few pics almost finished. I'm happy so far.
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Yeah, last time around I got lazy with pruning/shaping and my yield suffered greatly. I guess it's easy to get comfortable when you think things are going well. Usually the only time I get to 1.25gpw or over is when I SCROG, which I honestly may not do anymore. I recently added onto my space, and don't know yet if the extra yield is worth the headache. We'll see how it goes.

I don't use movers, but I probably should. I've thought about it, and even bought one but never installed the thing just because of the PITA of having to redo ventilation. And as for our friendly neighborhood AG, he can go die in a fire for all I care. I hate him so much... "pot profiteers", "they've hijacked this system", blah blah blah, fuck him and his trampling on our liberty. Fuck Shuette.

Your setup looks good though. Good luck.

A fire would be too good for him.

And thanks. I ordered some magnet snaps I'm gonna throw in every 12 inches on the bottom and tape them in with hvac tape..to hopefully keep mites out better and run my co2 more efficiently. That's another issue is I haven't been using co2 for 2 months while working on tents, so I probably haven't been getting enough fresh air to them lately.

However, my OGs and White Rhinos got a little over 18" in veg and I needed to flip them today, so I tried a little LST kinda deal by tying down some of the longer branches to the bottom ring of the tomato cage and I put them under 12/12. I'm hoping I'll be able to fill out the middle of each cage with flowers, instead of just having like 8-10 colas in it. We'll see.

+ WitchDoctor +

Are you using light movers? I just (almost) finished my two side by side rooms...so that I can do all my side by sides in controlled environments. They're both 7'x4'x7. I'm gonna get run 12 plants in each (Mr. Schuette will be so pleased) as soon as I can get the light movers with 600 in one room and 1000 in the other and see if 600 gets the job done. Here's a few pics almost finished. I'm happy so far.​

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Thanks for helping motivate me witchD. I have a new bloom room to build and it will be 7'x4'x9+'. I can't wait to have more headroom than a tent! I have been loathe to get started but now my Island Sweet Skunks are blasting off in veg and need to be flipped. Your side by side setup looks ideal, nice work! How much light for each? Just one lamp on a mover in each one? My plan is three 600s on a light rail down the middle. I will probably run 2 when its hot and 3 when I can get better temps. I dream of having a real side by side grow like you built, weed nerds need good data!

Kalyx said:

Thanks for helping motivate me witchD. I have a new bloom room to build and it will be 7'x4'x9+'. I can't wait to have more headroom than a tent! I have been loathe to get started but now my Island Sweet Skunks are blasting off in veg and need to be flipped. Your side by side setup looks ideal, nice work! How much light for each? Just one lamp on a mover in each one? My plan is three 600s on a light rail down the middle. I will probably run 2 when its hot and 3 when I can get better temps. I dream of having a real side by side grow like you built, weed nerds need good data!

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Yea I kinda motivated myself as well lol. I was slumpin around for a couple weeks and now I've been up to all kinds of shit the last few days...maybe it's Blue Dream

I've got 1 600 in each room for right now, haven't gotten the movers yet, probably not till next month. I'm covering a 4'x4' area with it for now. I just put 9 plants in there, the OGs and the Rhinos I'm using for my side by sides. I'll have to wait a couple months to actually use the rooms to do the side by sides, timing and all. I was actually kinda inspired by Wolverine's yields on veganics and I'm gonna try and push myself a little now. I'm gonna hook the co2 back up this weekend, and today instead of letting the 6-8 taller branches grow up and be colas, I kinda LSTed them to the lower ring of the tomato cage and flipped them like that. I'm gonna leave them like that for at least a week and hopefull get some more vertical growth out of them.
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I'll start a journal tomorrow for the high P tea thing I'm trying out. It looks like the compost might just BARELY be ready in time...

And yes, weed nerds definitely need good data. I need to find a rich weed nerd with money to pay for me to get my nerd weed tested all the time lol.

I have 3 600s in the other bloom room, which is now the room we use to stretch out the plants we juice, It's 10x3, and it's been more than enough, so I would say for a 7'x4'x9' room you'd have more than enough coverage with 600s covering the 7' and the light mover traveling the 4'. In fact...maybe when I get another 1000w system I'll try out the 1000w on one side and two 600s on the other, both with movers...

I need to make a house payment soon, before they take away all my fun...

EDIT: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/534217-first-shot-using-teas-worm.html

+ WitchDoctor +

I'll start a journal tomorrow for the high P tea thing I'm trying out. It looks like the compost might just BARELY be ready in time...​

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I have 3 600s in the other bloom room, which is now the room we use to stretch out the plants we juice, It's 10x3, and it's been more than enough, so I would say for a 7'x4'x9' room you'd have more than enough coverage with 600s covering the 7' and the light mover traveling the 4'. In fact...maybe when I get another 1000w system I'll try out the 1000w on one side and two 600s on the other, both with movers...​

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I know those 2 6s would slay a single thouie! Especially on movers, NO need to run that comparison. Clarification; you would move the lamps along the 4'run instead of the 7'run? Ideally id like to purchase another hood and run 4X600 with two parallel light rails moving along the 7' run, a pair of 6s on each rail moving in a checkerboard style array. (not right next to each other but staggered) Better get going on this...

Yea, I figure the two 600s would cover the 7' length nicely, especially with the lights being in a series. So the mover could just travel a foot in the other direction to cover the 4' better. That's exactly what I'll do when I get another 1000w for the other room. Oh, and a clarification on my end as well, I've never used light movers. Lol. But I can't see how they wouldn't help in a situation where I'm not going to add more watts either way.

I'll look into getting a refroactometer. Sounds neat.

IMO, the refractometer seems like a bit of a waste of time. I use one regularly as I brew beer, it is used to measure how much sugar is in a given liquid....well, it really measure how much the light bends in the liquid, which is an indication of how much sugar is in a given liquid - however, there are many variables, temperature being one of them. Vineyards use them to measure ripeness of fruit...so I just can't seem to think of a good enough reason to use this when trichome colour is already a good enough way to measure ripeness...

Cheers

'ome Grown said:

IMO, the refractometer seems like a bit of a waste of time. I use one regularly as I brew beer, it is used to measure how much sugar is in a given liquid....well, it really measure how much the light bends in the liquid, which is an indication of how much sugar is in a given liquid - however, there are many variables, temperature being one of them. Vineyards use them to measure ripeness of fruit...so I just can't seem to think of a good enough reason to use this when trichome colour is already a good enough way to measure ripeness...

Cheers

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I don't know much about them, but I just found this So it looks like it's more of a tool for telling when my plant isn't being the kind of producer she could be, before she's done producing even. This seems like it could be a beneficial tool to have if I can get one cheap like Kalyx mentioned. I could take off a fan leaf 4 weeks into flower and possible find out things like if I can feed harder, or give more P, and so on.

I need to get a better microscope for sure first though, instead of the active air garbage lol. I want one of those USB ones that will just magnify right to my laptop screen.

'ome Grown

IMO, the refractometer seems like a bit of a waste of time. I use one regularly as I brew beer, it is used to measure how much sugar is in a given liquid....well, it really measure how much the light bends in the liquid, which is an indication of how much sugar is in a given liquid - however, there are many variables, temperature being one of them. Vineyards use them to measure ripeness of fruit...so I just can't seem to think of a good enough reason to use this when trichome colour is already a good enough way to measure ripeness...
​

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Interesting post, let me clarify for you how the refractometer is used in gardening. After all we are not brewing ale here. In brewing the refractometer tells you when your yeasts have consumed the sugars present in the mash, ie to tell you when the brew is complete.

The refractometer has a very useful place in a data driven garden. It does NOT tell us when our plants are ripe, instead like witchdoctor pointed out, the brix levels are used as an indicator of overall plant health. It can also be used to compare fruit sugar content in industries where this is sought. (personally I think sweetness is overated in bud, I prefer other flavor combos) I was just telling another weed nerd that I thought brix data would be useful for generating quantitative comparisons during side by side testing. The real nice thing about brix data is that you can compare plant health as the plants grow not just by killing and smoking them to compare. We are a little beyond the "when to harvest" discussion in this thread, it seems like most here are competent in all the basics and working on dialing in the details.

Also another interesting reason to pay attention to / up your brix numbers is to ward off pests. (mites perhaps witchdoctor?). Basically all plant pests lack the digestive components required to completely break down and digest sugars (analogous to the human liver.) It is IMPOSSIBLE for pests to get going on tissues with high enough brix levels. They can eat, but cannot process the sugar-rich fluids so they basically gorge themselves to death and gain no nutrition from all the effort. I like doing this to avoid pests, healthy plants basically defend themselves. Its always the lame plant in the back of the canopy that they get a foothold on...If they are all thriving then no worries, even outdoors!

Nice post Kalyx, well said.

Yo kaylx, thanks for the response.

Firstly, alcohol skews the reading of a refractometer, so isn't used after yeast is present...only before. Sort of checking up to see what efficiency your mash is running at. My viticulture friends use them to test the level of ripeness in their berries so they know the best time to harvest.

Secondly, I've used 4 refractometers to take one reading and gotten slightly different results. If you do have a refrac, take a reading of something 3 times 10 mins apart...for proper readings of sugar levels that I've found to be accurate is a hydrometer.

I have sprayed my plants in the past with a molasses spray purely to increase the brix's level so that they are 'dressed' as healthy plants (and then not sort out by predators).

If it does have use for you guys, then great. Having quantitative data could support current observations...

Maybe it could be used to see if one plant is taking up more nutrients than another plant in a hydro set up or something...

Yea, I think Kalyx is actually a weed genius posing as a weed nerd.

I actually just read the other day too that using worm castings/compost in teas and in the soil mix increases production of an enzyme or something that makes the plants less susceptible to mite or other pest attacks, so I could probably learn more about that and grab one of those bad boys to start testing it.

All of the stuff I just harvested tastes much sweeter than usual. Even the OG Kush, while kind of fuely, still has a sweetness to it. It's gotta be from the teas...And this was also my first harvest in over a year where I didn't get at least a few spider mites by the end.

My all AACT agent orange plants WAY outflavored GO fed ones last winter (and yielded higher too.) There are pics in a previous post in this thread. The overall bouquet was enhanced in 2 major ways 1. More flavors came out of the genetics and were an amazing mix for the senses. In this particular strain I got serious enhancement of the sour end of the flavor spectrum. (non lemon-lime sweet orangey citrus on top, creamy funk, and then mouth watering sour tones to finish) 2. The intensity of each flavor was also increased, as well as much more resin production overall. The AACT flowers were slightly smaller but weighed in more due to the extra layer of resin.

That's good to hear. I'm going to order some Agent Orange seeds. Last time I tried to order them they were out. I've got some feminized Cannatonic (they were out of regular) and some Jilly Bean seedlings that I just put under the metal halide. And some free Lemonese seedlings as well, I'm sure I'll like anything with Lemon in the name.

I can't wait to try the Jilly Bean. And I'm expecting the Cannatonic to be life-changing, so it fucking better be.

refractometers are great if your growing cuttings from the same plant run after run. that way you always know where the peak should be.

Kalyx said:

My all AACT agent orange plants WAY outflavored GO fed ones last winter (and yielded higher too.) There are pics in a previous post in this thread. The overall bouquet was enhanced in 2 major ways 1. More flavors came out of the genetics and were an amazing mix for the senses. In this particular strain I got serious enhancement of the sour end of the flavor spectrum. (non lemon-lime sweet orangey citrus on top, creamy funk, and then mouth watering sour tones to finish) 2. The intensity of each flavor was also increased, as well as much more resin production overall. The AACT flowers were slightly smaller but weighed in more due to the extra layer of resin.

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I noticed the same...i just finished my first run in years and it was completely plant based regimen with AACT's!!! Resin and brix levels are thru the roof!!! Now back to trimming...

Thanks for the information.