Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize

Blaze up da chalice!! Irie shots Matt!!

Second that Matt. diggity dank

Thought i might share my experience dialing in my vegan organic methods, heavily adapted from and innitially inspired by kushman and rize & their techniques, so a big thank you to the fellas for stickin' with it and being public about it, even if it means getting bashed occasionally for it (ok a lot, i witnessed the whole icmag fiasco, and the first 20 pages here ).

A quick personal note, and an explanation i guess for why i left my perfectly good, very easy, very successful method of organic growing that included bone/blood/guano etc. I believe it is very important that, as a society, even as a species, we begin to rely less and less on animal food/products/byproducts as i just don't think it's very sustainable in the long run especially, and specifically, because of our population and its scarry fast increase, and not to mention the ethical/moral side when you (I) think about what is involved in trying to feed that many people and on a global scale, tysons chicken farms/slaughterhouses don't make me feel very good about them tasty lil chicken nuggets on my daughters plate, ya feel me?

In the first picture you see the difference between a not so well ammended mix (middle) showing the "mid-flower issues" that I, and i believe others, were having when feeding biocanna and not in bioterra+ soil and probably not feeding enough/correctly (i.e. needs N longer into flower) and for me specifically, probably not having enough K, Mg and Ca (use RO water that pumps out @ ~2ppm) and on the sides are the lush looking ladies in a well ammended/balanced mix. For the most part everything else used is the same, allbeit the greener (younger) ones have had neem foliars 3x, and obviously the middle girls are @ about 6 weeks the other two just flipped a few days ago. The next two are sisters to the first green ladies but were put into flower two weeks earlier. We'll see how they look in a few more weeks, but I feel much better about this run & they are so much better developed @ this point and lush looking than the others ever were.

I'll be glad to update as they get closer, to confirm my current observations/assumptions, as obviously they are 4 weeks behind.

Interestingly enough, yields obviously suffer (those will be 2+ oz's each), but quality of the flower itself and it's potency, smells etc etc do not suffer at all, if anything they seem enhanced! I know, lol probably just me trying to make the best out of seeing lesser yields, but doesn't it make sense that a plant will produce more trichs when stressed and trying to do its best to "attract" pollen and achieve its goal of reproducing? Has it ever been thought/discussed that potency/aroma levels & types may be related to attracting insects.... i know i'm rambling, its kickin' in now lol

First one down below is when it was younger a few weeks ago, bogbubble lady, 2nd pic shows a starving sour bubble FEED ME SEYMORE! but damn the smoke is top top TOP shelf and behind it are younger Blue Kush's, a nice big fan leaf yea and then the happy little group of virgins snug in their tent, God Buds in the back and Bogbubble in the front/right......Well allright, that was a long one i'm doooooone for now peace

good info here man. I am trying a new amended mix right now HF/OF based. It is keeping up nicely with my soilless run right now with a low regimen of BioCanna (5-10ml's.) No deficiency issues yet, about a week til flowering. But ya, I deal with the same yellowing issues, very frusterating, but I've been working it out slowly. It isn't tooo bad, but it still pisses me off. I am looking forward to doing some teas here soon. Gonna top dress something onto my Bubba Kush to see how it likes it and then I'm going to give a low dose BioCanna regimen on a heavy feeding SQ dominant Jackpot Royale that I have. The next batch are all going into the organic soil mix, which is cooking, so we'll see. I am excited about it.

Nightbird I like to supplement with Natures nectar nitrogen whenever I see the slightest bit of yellowing happening with the Biocanna. It keeps them green all the way through, prevents leaf loss and encourages growth.

Nature's nectar(n) seems to be the same as maxicrop liquid fish except it costs more??

What dosages do you use it at? I've tried it before, but it didn't work too well. Do you guys stack it on top of BioCanna or give it on a watering day? Some instruction would be appreciated. I have a bottle ready to use, I just haven't used it since I bought it because it didn't work all that well, which may be because I wasn't using it right.

I find Natures Nectar Works Very well on the low range 5-8ml gallon, fed by itself in between biocanna etc., around two weeks before switch over or when leaves start to fade barely. Its works very well for keeping them green, but you don't want to use it in flower the first two weeks, i use biovega first two weeks of switch half strength with flora. then transition to full flora, and boost.

NightbirdX said:

What dosages do you use it at? I've tried it before, but it didn't work too well. Do you guys stack it on top of BioCanna or give it on a watering day? Some instruction would be appreciated. I have a bottle ready to use, I just haven't used it since I bought it because it didn't work all that well, which may be because I wasn't using it right.

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I usually stack in on top of the Biocanna because I feed with Biocanna every watering. I have found that if I miss a feeding to do an AACT all by itself then my plants end up being hungry half a week later. So even when I brew I add biocanna and the N.N.N. if it is needed. I usually feed at 3.5ml/GL with the NNN.

Someone asked if it is like liquid fish. No. It is protein hydrolysate with amino acids, completely solubulized and instantly available. Its like a veganic protein shake for your plants.

Dank Raptor said:

I usually stack in on top of the Biocanna because I feed with Biocanna every watering. I have found that if I miss a feeding to do an AACT all by itself then my plants end up being hungry half a week later. So even when I brew I add biocanna and the N.N.N. if it is needed. I usually feed at 3.5ml/GL with the NNN.

Someone asked if it is like liquid fish. No. It is protein hydrolysate with amino acids, completely solubulized and instantly available. Its like a veganic protein shake for your plants.

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mmmm sounds delicious

what are you guys feeding at ml wise? in my soilless run, I bumped up to 30ml once per week, with a watering in between, it was just enough to start to burn my bubbas, the lightest feeder. I think im gonna cap at 25ml and give anything more on the watering days.

Natures Nectar N is soy based, i have a bottle, used it once as foliar, didn't help me lol. With my fairly heavily amended mix i don't think i'll ever use it, if i get early yellowing, within a week of flipping, i'll try it thought for sure. In veg i hardly fed biocanna and never more than 10ml/gal, been increasing my frequency of aact's though.

For these first couple weeks in flower, for the good lookin' ladies i have pictured, i've gone kinda heavy, especially at the slightest sign of yellowing down below. i even messed up this last watering, i had two buckets bubbling, one was a base compost tea, and the other a bloom tea ready to go with 10ml veg, 15ml flores, 10ml boost and my usual fulpower, protekt, hygrozyme, calmag, molasses. Well i forgot i already fully mixed the bloom and added another 10ml/gal vega before i realized i already did, i said oh weill fuck it and fed the hungry bitches with it and they took it all like a champ, even probably benefiting more. So for me, this tells me that even with a well amended mix you can go heavy with biocanna w/out fears of burning. I had 45ml/gal total vega/flores/boost and they loved that shit, on top of 10ml molasses (honey ES actually for this particular watering), 5ml enzymes, 1ml protekt, 5ml fulpower, 5ml calmag

Question, are you guys using the bioboost @ every watering in bloom, or only combined with flores?

Has anyone switched away from perlite? I hate the dust so damn much, i'm gonna buy some big bags of rice hulls and try that out.

I usually keep it between 10-15 ml/gal with the Biocanna in my amended soilless mix depending if I am adding other things or not.
As far as the boost. I use Honey ES instead.

hey if anybody knows about this please help me out. Will bubbling maxicrop and natures nectar (K) potassium with a 1/2 tbls molasses will that make them more available. also will it make beneficials grow and multiply?

yeah bubble that shit up for a bit, but you need a scoop of compost or EWC to introduce the microbes otherwise i don't think there's microbes in NN-K or maxicrop to get the orgy started

This place has some vegan dry ferts
http://sweetcornorganicnursery.com/store/categories/Soil-Amendments-&-Fertilizers/Vegan-Soil-Amendments-&-Fertilizers/

Some good stuff here too
http://www.arbico-organics.com/category/organic-gardening-farming

This gal did her reasearch: the YumYum mix looks tasty, anyone seen that around?
http://gentleworld.org/easy-guide-to-vegan-organic-fertilizers/

Comfrey and Nettle i see ALL the time recomended on a lot of these vegan/vegetarian gardening sites. Anyone make teas or FPE's with 'em? Seen them commercially available? I'm gonna start some comfrey after snow melt but not sure about growing stinging nettle in the garden

i cant even keep up with yall! nice work everyone.

[video=youtube;ZxGHtVUgfYo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxGHtVUgfYo[/video]

blueJ said:

I'm gonna start some comfrey after snow melt but not sure about growing stinging nettle in the garden

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You start the Comfrey I'll gather the stinging nettles, they grow mad wild where I'm @.

Great resources.

PakaloloHui said:

You start the Comfrey I'll gather the stinging nettles, they grow mad wild where I'm @.

Great resources.

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yo man, whats up with the youtube animosity? i just do the best i can do.
if you cant tell by now i hate being on camera.
and if you read my message over there, promoting veganics is for sure not my priority right now.
isn't this thread good enough? I feel like I've given everything I can here already.

Question, are you guys using the bioboost @ every watering in bloom, or only combined with flores?

Has anyone switched away from perlite? I hate the dust so damn much, i'm gonna buy some big bags of rice hulls and try that out.

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1. I have been trying to eliminate perlite from my mix too. Matt made a very valuable point early on in this thread, perlite is DEAD SPACE from a microbial perspective as its not a natural media. Danks! for sharing that, it gave me a whole new viewpoint on my mix. So basically; less perlite = more microbes = more mineralized (plant available) nutrition. HUGE in container organics and mama nature as we all know.
I still use some sort of aggregate (mostly dynarok medium size for a natural silica source) but have introduced 20% cocoNOT from vermicrop organics (replacing the usual 20% chunky perlite) and also use smartpots to aid in oxygen availabiity/ root health and get a wetter mix to dry out faster. Rize and this thread turned me onto CocoNOT and one guy claims nice results with it alone as soilless (matt felt differently when he used it alone.) It is redwood bark and kapok nuts, seems very fungus friendly and is REAL hydrophobic out of the bag. I wet it down with coco-wet prior to mixing it in a batch of soil (it is a bit dusty so hold on to your perlite mask). We lost a few good mix posts (and my first one too) in the 20 page void. Please re-post! I can post my mix if anyone is interesed, its based on whats already this thread.

2. I use BOOST every watering and every foliar, but I am willing to pay for UTMOST quality. To me it smells kinda like human babies, new in a non-plastic, non-industrial way! My plants (OGs) seem to love it. I agree with Matt its worth the premium, just dont get carried away (15ml per gal during initiation then 10 ml per gal, Foliar @ 15ml per gal too)

3. Put a hold on, haters! Keep life positive! Big-ups to Rize for raising the bar, and sharing the love/knowledge you have for our herb!
"If you ain't gettin' hated on you ain't doing sh*t". Peace, if not, medicate until peaceful!