War

captainmorgan said:

Russian soldiers are complaining that Ukraine snipers are shooting them in the balls.

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I don't imagine the wounded talk much about it, but speak kinda funny when they do...

captainmorgan said:

Russian soldiers are complaining that Ukraine snipers are shooting them in the balls.

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Wounding them is better than killing them, the dead are just left, but the wounded must be dealt with, either by leaving them, shooting them, or treating them, then using manpower to move them to the rear, a huge drag on resources. Shooting them or leaving them screaming for help is bad for moral and could lead to troops fragging their officers for offing their buddies or leaving them.

Perhaps the Ukrainian snipers have a ball collection, a little set of gold nuts on a pin or something, most nuts wins etc.

Drone Wars: Ukraine And Russia's Aerial Battle In The Skies Over Donbas
68,849 views Jun 14, 2022 An array of aerial drones are playing a critical role for both the Ukrainian and Russian militaries in the skies above the eastern Donbas region.

The war will “go into deep freeze” when Russia takes Donbass | Lord Dannatt
19,098 views Jun 14, 2022 Time to invite you into our daily "Briefing Room", where one of our leading tactical and strategic minds - with years of experience as a general officer at the highest level of military command, shares their insights into the current state of the war in Ukraine.

Lord Dannatt, former chief of the general staff, says Russia will undoubtedly succeed in taking the Donbass region but that it will exhaust their army and supplies.

They should be looking to Ukraine for their gas supply and fighting for it by at least giving the Ukrainians what they need to destroy Putin's army. Ukraine has easily developed gas and existing pipelines pass over much of it, it's even under Kyiv. Liberate all of Ukraine and destroy Russia's capacity to interfere and there is enough gas under Ukraine to supply Europe into the foreseeable future. Their energy supply is right next door and largely undeveloped in Ukraine, much of it is west of Kyiv. They should be drilling there now with Ukrainian crews, many worked oil rigs abroad and most men are unemployed. Major oil companies had signed contracts in 2010 to develop it, but war in Crimea and Donbass had the intended effect of halting work.

If you want to drive a nail into Russia's coffin, then develop Ukrainian petroleum resources ASAP and displace Russia as Europe and Turkey's energy supplier. It will break Russia financially, make Ukraine rich, prosperous and militarily strong and even pay back the loans and aid we gave them, along with seized Russian money. If his army isn't finished off in Ukraine, then it will be in Belarus and any remnants leftover in Georgia.
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EU looks to east Mediterranean as gas alternative to Russia

(R to L) Israel’s Prime Minister Naftali Bennett and his Italian counterpart Mario Draghi give a joint press statement at the Prime minsters office in Jerusalem on June 14, 2022.
Abir Sultan | AFP | Getty Images
European leaders visiting Israel expressed hope that natural gas supplies from the eastern Mediterranean could help reduce dependence on Russia as the Ukraine war drags on.
Israel has emerged as a gas exporter in recent years following major offshore discoveries and has signed an ambitious agreement with Greece and Cyprus to build a shared pipeline. New supplies could help Europe ramp up sanctions on Moscow.
“On the energy front, we will work together in using gas resources of the eastern Mediterranean and to develop renewable energy,” Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi said at a joint press conference with his Israeli counterpart, Naftali Bennett.
“We want to reduce our dependence on Russian gas and accelerate energy transition toward the climate objectives we’ve given ourselves,” he said.
Bennett said Israel was working to make natural gas available for Europe. His office said the two leaders also discussed shipping natural gas to Europe through Egypt.

DIY-HP-LED said:

They should be looking to Ukraine for their gas supply and fighting for it by at least giving the Ukrainians what they need to destroy Putin's army. Ukraine has easily developed gas and existing pipelines pass over much of it, it's even under Kyiv. Liberate all of Ukraine and destroy Russia's capacity to interfere and there is enough gas under Ukraine to supply Europe into the foreseeable future. Their energy supply is right next door and largely undeveloped in Ukraine, much of it is west of Kyiv. They should be drilling there now with Ukrainian crews, many worked oil rigs abroad and most men are unemployed. Major oil companies had signed contracts in 2010 to develop it, but war in Crimea and Donbass had the intended effect of halting work.

If you want to drive a nail into Russia's coffin, then develop Ukrainian petroleum resources ASAP and displace Russia as Europe and Turkey's energy supplier. It will break Russia financially, make Ukraine rich, prosperous and militarily strong and even pay back the loans and aid we gave them, along with seized Russian money. If his army isn't finished off in Ukraine, then it will be in Belarus and any remnants left in Georgia.
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EU looks to east Mediterranean as gas alternative to Russia

(R to L) Israel’s Prime Minister Naftali Bennett and his Italian counterpart Mario Draghi give a joint press statement at the Prime minsters office in Jerusalem on June 14, 2022.
Abir Sultan | AFP | Getty Images
European leaders visiting Israel expressed hope that natural gas supplies from the eastern Mediterranean could help reduce dependence on Russia as the Ukraine war drags on.
Israel has emerged as a gas exporter in recent years following major offshore discoveries and has signed an ambitious agreement with Greece and Cyprus to build a shared pipeline. New supplies could help Europe ramp up sanctions on Moscow.
“On the energy front, we will work together in using gas resources of the eastern Mediterranean and to develop renewable energy,” Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi said at a joint press conference with his Israeli counterpart, Naftali Bennett.
“We want to reduce our dependence on Russian gas and accelerate energy transition toward the climate objectives we’ve given ourselves,” he said.
Bennett said Israel was working to make natural gas available for Europe. His office said the two leaders also discussed shipping natural gas to Europe through Egypt.

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you would have to bring in Turkey, Cypus, Lebanon, Isreal, and Egypt into the deal if that were to happen, if i'm right that gas pocket sits right in the area of all those countries, especially Isreal and Lebanon......

Lucky Luke said:

Yep. Legend. War hero.
yeah, cool

Navy Commendation Medal with "V" for valor, "the Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal has historically considered its commendation medal to be a higher level and less frequently awarded decoration."
What, now? The medal considers THE MEDAL “a higher level and less frequently awarded decoration”? Legendary sentient medal, huh? What does the medal think it’s a higher level than? Maybe try writing out your answer again In complete sentences.

You may want to read his "CV" a little closer...
maybe you want to read less *into* it.

Marine, War hero, Senator, JAG officer, Head of the Army criminal investigations division at the Pentagon...What would he know? Truth? Better not listen as it goes against the propaganda that you have been conditioned to believe in.
You make less sense as you go along…you got this guy, I got my dad. I’ll put his medals and how he earned them up against this guy’s…but here’s the thing: according to you/his posted CV, this guy has never held a strategic, political, diplomatic, or foreign-service-connected post during his career. He’s a lawyer (and a very good one, I’m sure) but the burden is on *HIM* and those who hold him up (like *you*) to persuade the audience that his analysis is based on something he actually knows about.

Being a war hero didn’t teach him about nuclear brinksmanship, nor did working for the JAG (and what did he win that highly intelligent and self-aware commendation FOR, anyway?). Being a marine 30 years ago didn’t give him insight into Russia‘s excuse-of-the-day for their invasion of Ukraine, so what does?

You're holding him up as an Opinion-Haver on politics, international relations and foreign policy matters. Got a reason that makes sense?

As for the sales pitch recognition. I've sold door to door, bikes, cars, houses. Im a salesman by trade.

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Then you really ought to be better at spotting them when they’re used on you.

The bulk of my response is interspersed above, in red

DIY-HP-LED said:

One wonders who they were planning on selling such specialized parts to? Who were the end buyers going to be? Ukrainian intelligence?

Ukraine Releases List of Russian Officers Who May Be Sabotaging Putin's War

Ukraine's defense intelligence service released a report on an alleged attempt by Russian commanders to compromise their own equipment and sell off parts.

www.newsweek.com

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Dunno what exactly they’re looking at, but an incredible array of Soviet military tech, gear, & vehicles got sold thru eBay over the last 20 years, so there is at least a lengthy history to the practice

Bagginski said:

Dunno what exactly they’re looking at, but an incredible array of Soviet military tech, gear, & vehicles got sold thru eBay over the last 20 years, so there is at least a lengthy history to the practice

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It sounded like pretty specific high tech equipment that would only be useful if one had the kind of vehicle it came from. WTF else would you meet in Ukraine to sell it, unless it was a Ukrainian intelligence agent, since they operate the same equipment. Foreigners who bought this shit might want spares too, since Russia can't produce them any more. Anything Russian that shows up on eBay or in the international arms markets, is probably being snapped up by the US and UK for Ukraine Wherever the Russians sold their arms and munitions is being scoured, replacements offered, bribes paid and deals cut, for anything the Ukrainians can use.

I think most of the Russian guns the Ukrainians had, have their barrels burned out by now and need the tubes replaced and the guns refurbished. They are short on 152mm ammo anyway and I don't think that most of the soviet guns will be useful for much except as decoys. They should have their tanks and artillery fully transitioned to NATO stuff by the end of summer. What Soviet stuff they have left will be relegated to the reserve forces.

I'm pretty sure most of their night vision stuff went on eBay years ago along with a lot of other stuff like cases of MRE's. I imagine crates of AKs and ammo were sold on the darkweb by officers for years, along with spare parts for aircraft and vehicles sold abroad. They used to say the Russian army was the biggest fuel supplier in Russia, so much of it was stolen and sold on the black market by the tanker load. It all added up and will more so in the future, as they get down into the really bad junk they've been hiding from their bosses, they started with their best troops and weapons, then chewed them up real fast.

George Kennan, the intellectual father of America’s containment policy during the cold war, perceptively warned in a May 1998 New York Times interview about what the Senate’s ratification of Nato’s first round of expansion would set in motion. “I think it is the beginning of a new cold war,” Kennan stated. ”I think the Russians will gradually react quite adversely and it will affect their policies. I think it is a tragic mistake. There was no reason for this whatsoever. No one was threatening anybody else.”

He was right, but US and Nato leaders proceeded with new rounds of expansion, including the provocative step of adding the three Baltic republics. Those countries not only had been part of the Soviet Union, but they had also been part of Russia’s empire during the Czarist era. That wave of expansion now had Nato perched on the border of the Russian Federation.

In his memoir, Duty, Robert M Gates, who served as secretary of defense in the administrations of both George W Bush and Barack Obama, stated his belief that “the relationship with Russia had been badly mismanaged after [George HW] Bush left office in 1993”. Among other missteps, “US agreements with the Romanian and Bulgarian governments to rotate troops through bases in those countries was a needless provocation.” In an implicit rebuke to the younger Bush, Gates asserted that “trying to bring Georgia and Ukraine into Nato was truly overreaching”. That move, he contended, was a case of “recklessly ignoring what the Russians considered their own vital national interests”.

Could the Ukraine crisis have been avoided?

Events during the past few months constituted the last chance to avoid a hot war in eastern Europe. Putin demanded that Nato provide guarantees on several security issues. Specifically, the Kremlin wanted binding assurances that the alliance would reduce the scope of its growing military presence in eastern Europe and would never offer membership to Ukraine. He backed up those demands with a massive military buildup on Ukraine’s borders.

The Biden administration’s response to Russia’s quest for meaningful western concessions and security guarantees was tepid and evasive. Putin then clearly decided to escalate matters. Washington’s attempt to make Ukraine a Nato political and military pawn (even absent the country’s formal membership in the alliance) may end up costing the Ukrainian people dearly.

Lucky Luke said:

George Kennan, the intellectual father of America’s containment policy during the cold war, perceptively warned in a May 1998 New York Times interview about what the Senate’s ratification of Nato’s first round of expansion would set in motion. “I think it is the beginning of a new cold war,” Kennan stated. ”I think the Russians will gradually react quite adversely and it will affect their policies. I think it is a tragic mistake. There was no reason for this whatsoever. No one was threatening anybody else.”

He was right, but US and Nato leaders proceeded with new rounds of expansion, including the provocative step of adding the three Baltic republics. Those countries not only had been part of the Soviet Union, but they had also been part of Russia’s empire during the Czarist era. That wave of expansion now had Nato perched on the border of the Russian Federation.

In his memoir, Duty, Robert M Gates, who served as secretary of defense in the administrations of both George W Bush and Barack Obama, stated his belief that “the relationship with Russia had been badly mismanaged after [George HW] Bush left office in 1993”. Among other missteps, “US agreements with the Romanian and Bulgarian governments to rotate troops through bases in those countries was a needless provocation.” In an implicit rebuke to the younger Bush, Gates asserted that “trying to bring Georgia and Ukraine into Nato was truly overreaching”. That move, he contended, was a case of “recklessly ignoring what the Russians considered their own vital national interests”.

Could the Ukraine crisis have been avoided?

Events during the past few months constituted the last chance to avoid a hot war in eastern Europe. Putin demanded that Nato provide guarantees on several security issues. Specifically, the Kremlin wanted binding assurances that the alliance would reduce the scope of its growing military presence in eastern Europe and would never offer membership to Ukraine. He backed up those demands with a massive military buildup on Ukraine’s borders.

The Biden administration’s response to Russia’s quest for meaningful western concessions and security guarantees was tepid and evasive. Putin then clearly decided to escalate matters. Washington’s attempt to make Ukraine a Nato political and military pawn (even absent the country’s formal membership in the alliance) may end up costing the Ukrainian people dearly.

Many predicted Nato expansion would lead to war. Those warnings were ignored | Ted Galen Carpenter

It has long been clear that Nato expansion would lead to tragedy. We are now paying the price for the US’s arrogance

www.theguardian.com

Click to expand...

Putin would have only moved in on them quicker and former Warsaw pact would have formed their own defensive alliance with American support anyway. Integration into the EU and NATO helped the conditions in these countries to improve rapidly. Russia's paranoia is Russia's problem and became a self fulfilling prophesy of their own creation, now spy master Vlad has opened the door wide for spy and clandestine operations all around his empire and with in it too.

He has fixed his shitty army in Ukraine, where they will be strangled before being trapped and destroyed with a steadily increasing supply of western arms. I don't think digging in will help them as much as people think, the Ukrainians maneuvered for a reason when under inaccurate heavy Russian artillery fire and generally did not stay in fixed defensive positions. The Ukrainian fire on their defensive positions will be accurate and the drones dropping bombs on trenches and dug in tanks at night and during the day will be relentless. MLRS will reach far into the Russian rear destroying long range artillery, C&C, logistics and fuel for the Russians forward elements.

In short, I think the Ukrainians can breakthrough the fixed multilayer Russian defenses and break into their rear, by using drones, precision weapons and accurate artillery fire on a section of their front that is weak. They will do it with tactical airpower in the form of many different kinds of drones, accurate artillery strikes and tanks screened by infantry over running what's left of their positions, while pounding their rear supporting elements with MLRS. Tactical air and tanks brought an end to fixed fighting positions and trench warfare, pin point artillery strikes using drones to call the shots is hard on them too.

Lucky Luke said:

George Kennan, the intellectual father of America’s containment policy during the cold war, perceptively warned in a May 1998 New York Times interview about what the Senate’s ratification of Nato’s first round of expansion would set in motion. “I think it is the beginning of a new cold war,” Kennan stated. ”I think the Russians will gradually react quite adversely and it will affect their policies. I think it is a tragic mistake. There was no reason for this whatsoever. No one was threatening anybody else.”

He was right, but US and Nato leaders proceeded with new rounds of expansion, including the provocative step of adding the three Baltic republics. Those countries not only had been part of the Soviet Union, but they had also been part of Russia’s empire during the Czarist era. That wave of expansion now had Nato perched on the border of the Russian Federation.

In his memoir, Duty, Robert M Gates, who served as secretary of defense in the administrations of both George W Bush and Barack Obama, stated his belief that “the relationship with Russia had been badly mismanaged after [George HW] Bush left office in 1993”. Among other missteps, “US agreements with the Romanian and Bulgarian governments to rotate troops through bases in those countries was a needless provocation.” In an implicit rebuke to the younger Bush, Gates asserted that “trying to bring Georgia and Ukraine into Nato was truly overreaching”. That move, he contended, was a case of “recklessly ignoring what the Russians considered their own vital national interests”.

Could the Ukraine crisis have been avoided?

Events during the past few months constituted the last chance to avoid a hot war in eastern Europe. Putin demanded that Nato provide guarantees on several security issues. Specifically, the Kremlin wanted binding assurances that the alliance would reduce the scope of its growing military presence in eastern Europe and would never offer membership to Ukraine. He backed up those demands with a massive military buildup on Ukraine’s borders.

The Biden administration’s response to Russia’s quest for meaningful western concessions and security guarantees was tepid and evasive. Putin then clearly decided to escalate matters. Washington’s attempt to make Ukraine a Nato political and military pawn (even absent the country’s formal membership in the alliance) may end up costing the Ukrainian people dearly.

Many predicted Nato expansion would lead to war. Those warnings were ignored | Ted Galen Carpenter

It has long been clear that Nato expansion would lead to tragedy. We are now paying the price for the US’s arrogance

www.theguardian.com

Click to expand...

Funny how a guy who runs a libertarian think-tank considers appeasement of Putin a wise course of action.

I’m still waiting for someone to provide evidence (not even *proof*, just valid evidence) that appeasement of a totalitarian or autocratic ruler has ever turned out well. Hasn’t worked with the Kims, or Beijing, Berlin or Moscow, but something could have slipped my mind, so please, set me straight on how, say, appeasing Putin has helped Georgia, Czecnya, *any* of the ex-iron-curtain principalities (just to keep the conversation focused).

How ‘bout Belorus - I’m sure they’re thriving since they decided to ‘co-operate’ w/ Auntie Vlad, right?

Lucky Luke said:

George Kennan, the intellectual father of America’s containment policy during the cold war, perceptively warned in a May 1998 New York Times interview about what the Senate’s ratification of Nato’s first round of expansion would set in motion. “I think it is the beginning of a new cold war,” Kennan stated. ”I think the Russians will gradually react quite adversely and it will affect their policies. I think it is a tragic mistake. There was no reason for this whatsoever. No one was threatening anybody else.”

He was right, but US and Nato leaders proceeded with new rounds of expansion, including the provocative step of adding the three Baltic republics. Those countries not only had been part of the Soviet Union, but they had also been part of Russia’s empire during the Czarist era. That wave of expansion now had Nato perched on the border of the Russian Federation.

In his memoir, Duty, Robert M Gates, who served as secretary of defense in the administrations of both George W Bush and Barack Obama, stated his belief that “the relationship with Russia had been badly mismanaged after [George HW] Bush left office in 1993”. Among other missteps, “US agreements with the Romanian and Bulgarian governments to rotate troops through bases in those countries was a needless provocation.” In an implicit rebuke to the younger Bush, Gates asserted that “trying to bring Georgia and Ukraine into Nato was truly overreaching”. That move, he contended, was a case of “recklessly ignoring what the Russians considered their own vital national interests”.

Could the Ukraine crisis have been avoided?

Events during the past few months constituted the last chance to avoid a hot war in eastern Europe. Putin demanded that Nato provide guarantees on several security issues. Specifically, the Kremlin wanted binding assurances that the alliance would reduce the scope of its growing military presence in eastern Europe and would never offer membership to Ukraine. He backed up those demands with a massive military buildup on Ukraine’s borders.

The Biden administration’s response to Russia’s quest for meaningful western concessions and security guarantees was tepid and evasive. Putin then clearly decided to escalate matters. Washington’s attempt to make Ukraine a Nato political and military pawn (even absent the country’s formal membership in the alliance) may end up costing the Ukrainian people dearly.

Many predicted Nato expansion would lead to war. Those warnings were ignored | Ted Galen Carpenter

It has long been clear that Nato expansion would lead to tragedy. We are now paying the price for the US’s arrogance

www.theguardian.com

Click to expand...

Married 'til death do you part. So the Italians should hold sway over all of Europe the Romans once held? The countries have no right to self determination? How long before they do have the right? Or the longer they are denied the more Russia has ownership? Never mind the countries taken by force. I guess a woman in an abusive relationship will never be allowed to leave the orbit of the deadbeat that sponged off her and told her what she can wear and what not. Even when divorced he can still tell her what she can wear?

Russia was given a chance to join Western society, instead they could not manage it and have a bunch of criminals in charge.

Are you for real?

DIY-HP-LED said:

If you want to drive a nail into Russia's coffin, then develop Ukrainian petroleum resources ASAP and displace Russia as Europe and Turkey's energy supplier. It will break Russia financially, make Ukraine rich, prosperous and militarily strong and even pay back the loans and aid we gave them, along with seized Russian money. If his army isn't finished off in Ukraine, then it will be in Belarus and any remnants leftover in Georgia.

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and what's to stop the russians from just bombing the fuck out of any kind of oil or gas infrastructure the Ukrainians try to build right now?

Lucky Luke said:

George Kennan, the intellectual father of America’s containment policy during the cold war, perceptively warned in a May 1998 New York Times interview about what the Senate’s ratification of Nato’s first round of expansion would set in motion. “I think it is the beginning of a new cold war,” Kennan stated. ”I think the Russians will gradually react quite adversely and it will affect their policies. I think it is a tragic mistake. There was no reason for this whatsoever. No one was threatening anybody else.”

He was right, but US and Nato leaders proceeded with new rounds of expansion, including the provocative step of adding the three Baltic republics. Those countries not only had been part of the Soviet Union, but they had also been part of Russia’s empire during the Czarist era. That wave of expansion now had Nato perched on the border of the Russian Federation.

In his memoir, Duty, Robert M Gates, who served as secretary of defense in the administrations of both George W Bush and Barack Obama, stated his belief that “the relationship with Russia had been badly mismanaged after [George HW] Bush left office in 1993”. Among other missteps, “US agreements with the Romanian and Bulgarian governments to rotate troops through bases in those countries was a needless provocation.” In an implicit rebuke to the younger Bush, Gates asserted that “trying to bring Georgia and Ukraine into Nato was truly overreaching”. That move, he contended, was a case of “recklessly ignoring what the Russians considered their own vital national interests”.

Could the Ukraine crisis have been avoided?

Events during the past few months constituted the last chance to avoid a hot war in eastern Europe. Putin demanded that Nato provide guarantees on several security issues. Specifically, the Kremlin wanted binding assurances that the alliance would reduce the scope of its growing military presence in eastern Europe and would never offer membership to Ukraine. He backed up those demands with a massive military buildup on Ukraine’s borders.

The Biden administration’s response to Russia’s quest for meaningful western concessions and security guarantees was tepid and evasive. Putin then clearly decided to escalate matters. Washington’s attempt to make Ukraine a Nato political and military pawn (even absent the country’s formal membership in the alliance) may end up costing the Ukrainian people dearly.

Many predicted Nato expansion would lead to war. Those warnings were ignored | Ted Galen Carpenter

It has long been clear that Nato expansion would lead to tragedy. We are now paying the price for the US’s arrogance

www.theguardian.com

Click to expand...

fucking load of horseshit...they had to go back to 98 to find an "expert" that corroborated their shitty theory...
NATO is a defensive body. they have never attacked anyone unprovoked, and have never given me reason to think they might change that policy.
putin started this war, unprovoked in any material way. the rest of the world cannot and should not be punished for his paranoia.
the U.S. and NATO are using Ukraine, and Ukraine is both aware of that, and fine with it...they're asking to be better utilized, better equipped, and i think the most criminal thing the U.S. or NATO could do would be to deny the Ukrainian's requests.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

and what's to stop the russians from just bombing the fuck out of any kind of oil or gas infrastructure the Ukrainians try to build right now?

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Well, no harm in trying and if Germany got the gas, maybe they would supply more anti aircraft systems to deal with them. Since the pipelines run right over some of the accessible fields, a dozen drilling rigs could punch a lot of holes in the ground over the summer into known deposits.

They could even drill inside existing buildings like farm barns to hide it from the Russians. I'd have carpenters and the local movie people building fake prefab oil rigs, good enough to fool the satellites and drones and have an entire army unit of skilled volunteers would be involved making dummies and decoys an art form. There is also a small gas field in the extreme south west of the country near Romania. Once a well is drilled and tapped into an existing pipeline buried 2 meters down in the ground, it is a more difficult a target to hit, than a railway line. In another month or two the Russians might not be in a position to strike much with precision in Ukraine and need missiles to do it. So if the Ukrainians have a gas field, the Germans and other Europeans can supply the AA missile systems to defend it, many cruise and ballistic missiles can be intercepted these days.

DIY-HP-LED said:

Well, no harm in trying and if Germany got the gas, maybe they would supply more anti aircraft systems to deal with them. Since the pipelines run right over some of the accessible fields, a dozen drilling rigs could punch a lot of holes in the ground over the summer into known deposits.

They could even drill inside existing buildings like farm barns to hide it from the Russians. I'd have carpenters and the local movie people building fake prefab oil rigs, good enough to fool the satellites and drones and have an entire army unit of skilled volunteers would be involved making dummies and decoys an art form. There is also a small gas field in the extreme south west of the country near Romania. Once a well is drilled and tapped into an existing pipeline buried 2 meters down in the ground, it is a more difficult a target to hit, than a railway line. In another month or two the Russians might not be in a position to strike much with precision in Ukraine and need missiles to do it. So if the Ukrainians have a gas field, the Germans and other Europeans can supply the AA missile systems to defend it, many cruise and ballistic missiles can be intercepted these days.

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did you watch a lot of "Hogan's heroes" as a kid?....

Roger A. Shrubber said:

did you watch a lot of "Hogan's heroes" as a kid?....

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The Brits did it on D day and deception is part of war. A skilled crew could build a lot of fake drilling rigs in a short period of time. A lot of rigs would be in farm buildings and a lot of fake derricks will be sticking out of many of them. In a month or two the Russians will have a lot fewer drones than they do now and the Ukrainians could make them drone blind in an area. Moving forward they should also have a lot fewer missiles that can hit these targets with the accuracy required and they would be expending most of them on fake installations.

Europe needs the gas, Ukraine has it, the pipeline infrastructure to Europe exists and runs right over the fucking fields, many of which lie west of Kyiv. I know it sounds like a hair brained scheme, but seriously, all the elements are there and a few hundred experienced Ukrainian oil workers should not be hard to find. If the existing pipelines didn't run over gas fields in western Ukraine near Kyiv, I'd say forget it, but a dozen drilling rigs can still punch a lot of gas wells over the summer.

It seems more practical and faster than bringing gas in from the middle east. If Turkey was dependent on Ukraine for gas and for 90% of it's grain, as well as a lot of traffic through their canal, what use is Russia to them? If Europe got it's gas from Ukraine, perhaps the Europeans would take a more active interest in their defense. Germany is just across from Poland and they are Ukraine's neighbors, who plan on burning a lot of coal to generate their power. Germany has a very big petrochemical industry and needs gas and petroleum, but demand for gasoline should diminish over the next decade as EVs take over the roads there.