War

DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
When I was a kid the biggest heroes were not fictional characters but members of the resistance in WW2. Monuments everywhere, plenty of good movies. Literally every boy and young men made at least once in their life the claim “I would have joined the resistance!”. Older people, like my grandparents who lived through the war and occupation, were always quick to explain the reality was not that simple. Older black Americans probably understand too. Keeping your head down is a better life than your family members getting raped and massacred or starve to death. Russians would resist a sudden switch from what Ukrainians had to Putin’s ways too. Same people, different circumstances.

When I read Russian people should rise up I imagine actual Russians I’ve interacted with over the past decades should risk their lives to rise up against Putin and it just paints an absurd image in my head. Kinda like you storming the capitol. The ones crazy enough to do that with force would be the type of Russian that doesn’t oppose Putin. Why do the ones who‘d rather not have him as head of state, would rather have our lives and birthplace, have the responsibility to rise up and risk everything they have and everyone they love. I’d prefer they keep themselves safe, gtfo of Russia if possible. Election results in Russia mean as little as the referendums they held in Ukraine, no Russian citizen voted for this war in safe and fair elections. Does being a citizen of a country make you responsible for the actions of your mad king? The way I see it, “the Russian people” is a very broad brush that paints an entity that doesn’t even really exist. There’s Russians, and there’s Russians.
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Stalin's ghost casts a long shadow over Russia, nobody stopped him he just died, but the memories, stories and relationship with the state remain. Putin is Stalin's true heir, but he lives in different world with more communications technology and far less control over information. A generation has had a taste of the west and modernity and know we are no real military threat, a lot of them voted with their feet and a lot more would like to.

If the people do not bear the responsibly for an evil and bad government, they certainly end up bearing the burden and tragedy, from freezing to death on the battlefield in a pointless war, to having their cities leveled and living like shit for years after. This burden they often share with their victims as well as by themselves, increasingly in this interconnected and interdependent world, consequences of wars are widespread.

The point is liberal democracy must grow and despots must go, and we need to work towards that goal, at home and abroad. We can no longer afford to have despotic rule by a psychopathic lunatic running a major power, technology and interdependence are making that too dangerous. Everybody aspires to democracy and the rule of law except fascists and morons and if anybody tells you otherwise, they are full of shit or part of the problem.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
CCGNZ said:
I'm also hoping for a Russian uprising of some kind,it's the only scenario I can ascertain in which Russia can somehow save face for this absolute barbarian folly Putin has unleashed,I honestly believe most average Russians don't want this and have a genuine kinship with Ukranians.I have way more questions than answers,How does this end?,Will their be honest tribunals regarding war criminals,How will reparations to Ukraine be accomplished? ,What kind of geo-political situation develops in the aftermath of hostilities?,Who leads post war Russia if Putin goes and if not how can he ever be dealt with w/the reputation he now has? and on and on,hard questions even harder answers.
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i see russia failing and all their "republics" gaining independence, which will require NATO intervention to gather up all the nukes and any stockpiles of missiles before they start using them on themselves.
i don't think russia will exist anymore once this is over, at least not as anything like a world power. they'll just be another rump state left over after putin's fall, desperately trying to maintain some control over their own fate. they will be financially obliterated, putin and his cronies have been bleeding them dry for years, and now the sanctions and reparations for Ukraine will finish the job. they will be lucky to be able to immigrate somewhere they can find work, so they can send money home for beets and vodka...
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
CCGNZ said:
I firmly believe that Russia's loss of buffer states including Ukraine is the main reason for the "special military operation". The Russian psyche is scarred with the fear of invasion.
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which makes me wonder if it's even worth trying to stop the war until they're so beaten, so broken, that they can't invade anyone else for decades, which will give their neighbors time to prepare for them...because russia will never, ever change...they don't want to change, they want to change the world to suit themselves, and the world doesn't want to comply, and should not have to.
russian fear is not a sufficient reason for a single thing they've done, and never will be. they have to be nullified, if not outright destroyed as a nation, for the peace of the entire world.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
When I was a kid the biggest heroes were not fictional characters but members of the resistance in WW2. Monuments everywhere, plenty of good movies. Literally every boy and young men made at least once in their life the claim “I would have joined the resistance!”. Older people, like my grandparents who lived through the war and occupation, were always quick to explain the reality was not that simple. Older black Americans probably understand too. Keeping your head down is a better life than your family members getting raped and massacred or starve to death. Russians would resist a sudden switch from what Ukrainians had to Putin’s ways too. Same people, different circumstances.

When I read Russian people should rise up I imagine actual Russians I’ve interacted with over the past decades should risk their lives to rise up against Putin and it just paints an absurd image in my head. Kinda like you storming the capitol. The ones crazy enough to do that with force would be the type of Russian that doesn’t oppose Putin. Why do the ones who‘d rather not have him as head of state, would rather have our lives and birthplace, have the responsibility to rise up and risk everything they have and everyone they love. I’d prefer they keep themselves safe, gtfo of Russia if possible. Election results in Russia mean as little as the referendums they held in Ukraine, no Russian citizen voted for this war in safe and fair elections. Does being a citizen of a country make you responsible for the actions of your mad king? The way I see it, “the Russian people” is a very broad brush that paints an entity that doesn’t even really exist. There’s Russians, and there’s Russians.
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ok...i can work with that too, but it will require the financial crippling of russia, and for sanctions to stay in place for at least a few years, to bring them to their knees. they MUST pay for ALL reparations to Ukraine, to fix the Ukrainian infrastructure they are destroying, they must pay to rebuild all the hospitals, schools and apartment building they have and will destroy. they WILL leave all Ukrainian lands with their shields, or on them...
you say they'll never accept a change, i say they won't have any fucking choice in the matter...they can start rethinking their positions, or their positions will be rethought for them.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
One gun two substations so far. What if the "idea" catches on? America could be in the dark pretty quick. Let's say anti gun activists wanted to make a "statement" and decided to have a campaign in those states with no gun laws? It might come down to your 2nd amendment rights or your lights! Technology empowers the individual or small groups of them and connects them and guns can kill power grids too, not just people, who needs a missile?

Freedom means freedom to freeze in the dark too. Texas has a vulnerable power grid and liberal gun laws a .50 cal sniper rifle isn't hard to get at a gun show and neither is a silencer. Though normal calibers should work just fine on big distribution transformers too, they don't need to be very close either. Maybe not a leftwing anti-gun group, but a future rightwing domestic terrorist group, discontented that Texas went blue or for some other "cause".


State of Emergency declared in Moore County after power substations hit with gunfire

299,514 views Dec 4, 2022
A State of Emergency is in effect in Moore County after a massive power outage caused by damage to substations by firearms.
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that's why they have to catch the idiots that did that shit and fucking crucify them so none of their fucking morons friends tries it too...charge them with attempted murder on top of everything else, they could have shut down hospitals where operations were going on...they didn't give a fuck, so i don't give a fuck, bury them under the jail when you find them, and let them starve to death on live television.
no motherfucking sympathy for domestic terrorist, they deserve death, but too many pussies will cry about that, so as many years as it's possible to give them, run consecutively, in the shittiest, most dangerous facility available. make this so fucking unattractive that none of the fucking morons ever even considers it again.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
that's why they have to catch the idiots that did that shit and fucking crucify them so none of their fucking morons friends tries it too...charge them with attempted murder on top of everything else, they could have shut down hospitals where operations were going on...they didn't give a fuck, so i don't give a fuck, bury them under the jail when you find them, and let them starve to death on live television.
no motherfucking sympathy for domestic terrorist, they deserve death, but too many pussies will cry about that, so as many years as it's possible to give them, run consecutively, in the shittiest, most dangerous facility available. make this so fucking unattractive that none of the fucking morons ever even considers it again.
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You may have to sandbag around the chain link fences surrounding them up to the top of the fence, then only a drone can get at them. Power transmission lines present another problem though, people can be hunting and the bullet that brings one down will be shot into the air, prove it was them in court without a drone video etc. More guns more empowered lunatics with a chip on their shoulder. Their hero Vlad inspired them and Donald going to prison will be their cause, go ahead and try and keep the lights on while they keep their second amendment rights!

You could do it with a drone and some DIY explosives too, which is why drones are being regulated out of existence. Sandbags won't help, but commercial fishing nets strung up and local jammers will. Berm up around the transformers and sandbags or barriers on top of that to get them out of line of sight and stop bullets, harden them up just like in Ukraine.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
You may have to sandbag around the chain link fences surrounding them up to the top of the fence, then only a drone can get at them. Power transmission lines present another problem though, people can be hunting and the bullet that brings one down will be shot into the air, prove it was them in court without a drone video etc. More guns more empowered lunatics with a chip on their shoulder. Their hero Vlad inspired them and Donald going to prison will be their cause, go ahead and try and keep the lights on while they keep their second amendment rights!

You could do it with a drone and some DIY explosives too, which is why drones are being regulated out of existence. Sandbags won't help, but commercial fishing nets strung up and local jammers will. Berm up around the transformers and sandbags or barriers on top of that to get them out of line of sight and stop bullets, harden them up just like in Ukraine.
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fuck all of that...the real deterrent will be nailing the guy or guys who did this to the wall with so many nails, that are so fucking huge, that they will die still trying to pull themselves loose...the little cowardly fucks that do shit like this convince themselves that they can get away with it...they have to be proven wrong, and their punishment has to scare the fuck out of the rest of the cowards who might consider doing it in the future.
slap them with multimillion dollar fines, open them up to law suits from all the businesses and people who lost income because of them, charge them with murder if anyone died in a way that could even remotely be connected to their cowardly shit, and then charge them with domestic terrorism...let the other little cowards know that they cannot get away with it, and they'll spend the rest of their broke lives in a cell.
 
printer

printer

Well-Known Member
US secretly modified HIMARS for Ukraine to prevent Kyiv from shooting long-range missiles into Russia
The Pentagon secretly modified advanced rocket systems it sent to Ukraine to make the weapons unable to fire into Russia and escalate the war.
Since June, the U.S. has supplied Kyiv with 20 of the High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS), but the weapons are uniquely modified so they can’t fire long-range missiles, the Wall Street Journal reported, citing U.S. officials.

The HIMARS are wheeled vehicles equipped with rocket systems, which are attached to the back.
Along with the HIMARS, the U.S. has supplied Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) with a range of 50 miles, which have been used to strike Russian ammunition depots and command centers within Ukraine.

When President Biden announced the Defense Department was shipping the HIMARS and ammunition to Ukraine at the end of May, he said they would only be used for defense and the administration was “not going to send to Ukraine rocket systems that strike into Russia.”
Ukrainian President Voldymyr Zelensky also promised at the time not to use the missile systems to strike targets inside Russia.
The U.S. has also resisted sending Army Tactical Missile System (ATMS) rockets, a surface-to-surface missile that can hit targets up to 186 miles away. Officials cited similar concerns about Ukraine striking targets in Russia.

Kyiv has asked for the ATMS rockets for months, stressing the missile system would only be used to strike targets within Ukraine.
Washington has so far resisted calls from senators to send highly advanced Gray Eagle MQ-1C drones to Ukraine over fears they could strike targets in Russia and be recovered by Russian forces.

Moscow, which has repeatedly rebuked the U.S. for arming Ukraine, has warned Washington against sending Ukraine more advanced weaponry.

Maria Zakharova, a spokeswoman for Russia’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, said in a September briefing the U.S. would “cross the red line and become a party to the conflict” if it sent longer-range missiles to Kyiv.

Calls to provide Ukraine with longer-range missile systems and more advanced weaponry to strike back have grown more urgent after Russia in October began bombarding civilian infrastructure and energy grids in Ukraine.
A new wave of Russian rocket strikes hit cities across Ukraine on Monday.

Washington has provided billions of dollars for Ukraine since the war began and has slowly upgraded Kyiv’s arsenal as the conflict has dragged on, moving from anti-tank Javelin missiles to Switchblade drones and HIMARS.
thehill.com

US secretly modified HIMARS for Ukraine to prevent Kyiv from shooting long-range missiles into Russia

The Pentagon secretly modified advanced rocket systems it sent to Ukraine to make the weapons unable to fire into Russia and escalate the war. Since June, the U.S. has supplied Kyiv with 20 of the …
thehill.com thehill.com
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
The point is liberal democracy must grow and despots must go, and we need to work towards that goal, at home and abroad. We can no longer afford to have despotic rule by a psychopathic lunatic running a major power, technology and interdependence are making that too dangerous. Everybody aspires to democracy and the rule of law except fascists and morons and if anybody tells you otherwise, they are full of shit or part of the problem.
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Entirely agree. The world is too small for anything else.

Roger A. Shrubber said:
you say they'll never accept a change, i say they won't have any fucking choice in the matter...they can start rethinking their positions, or their positions will be rethought for them.
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No, I’m saying if Russians would live like Ukrainians for decades, and some Putin-like enemy would try to repress them, they’d resist just as much as Ukrainians do now. The point was they grew up in their situation, didn’t happen overnight. If it would have, they wouldn’t have accepted Putin either.

And yes, Russia will have to pay of course. Heck, I want them to denuclearize and fully surrender. But then still, we’ll send them used clothing and blankets to make it through the winter.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
DIY-HP-LED said:
If the people do not bear the responsibly for
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This formulation supports and propagates the fallacy of a collective will, such as “the will of the people”. I’ve seen that a lot on these pages by people unsportingly laying blame for an entrenched corrupt system on how ordinary folks vote, and saying Vassily Six-pack has earned the hardship.

With a political-industrial oligarchy rigging the game, blaming the voter is unfair, which unfairness is compounded by invoking the broken concept of a collective will.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
This formulation supports and propagates the fallacy of a collective will, such as “the will of the people”. I’ve seen that a lot on these pages by people unsportingly laying blame for an entrenched corrupt system on how ordinary folks vote, and saying Vassily Six-pack has earned the hardship.

With a political-industrial oligarchy rigging the game, blaming the voter is unfair, which unfairness is compounded by invoking the broken concept of a collective will.
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I'm merely stating the obvious, poor choices by leaders with absolute power often led to catastrophe and we see it in the modern world. Whether they are collectively responsible or not makes no difference to the consequences of poor choices by leaders, in America or Russia. Trump never completely controlled the government and courts in America and there is a tradition and culture of democratic values. In Russia there was empire, then communist dictatorship and more empire with a brief break in the 90s and early 2000s, then back to despotism. Stalin left his mark on Russia and the surrounding former Soviet Republics and deported whole nations to Siberia or Gulag deathcamps. Instead of a liberal democratic legacy, they have Stalin's, Trump left his mark on American culture too, but Stalin had absolute power for nearly 30 years of terror. He turned the country into a paranoid reflection of his sick and twisted psychopathic mind.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
DIY-HP-LED said:
I'm merely stating the obvious, poor choices by leaders with absolute power often led to catastrophe and we see it in the modern world. Whether they are collectively responsible or not makes no difference to the consequences of poor choices by leaders, in America or Russia. Trump never completely controlled the government and courts in America and there is a tradition and culture of democratic values. In Russia there was empire, then communist dictatorship and more empire with a brief break in the 90s and early 2000s, then back to despotism. Stalin left his mark on Russia and the surrounding former Soviet Republics and deported whole nations to Siberia or Gulag deathcamps. I stead of a liberal democratic legacy, they have Stalin's, Trump left his mark on American culture too, but Stalin had absolute power for nearly 30 years of terror. He turned the country into a paranoid reflection of his sick and twisted psychopathic mind.
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It still mislays the blame, which is my point.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
It still mislays the blame, which is my point.
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Who's blaming? However, we have the same fundamental question with covid for instance. Many die from it, including antivaccine activists who spread disinformation, are they victims or are they responsible for the deaths of others and perhaps themselves? The same can be said about the Germans in WW2 or even the Poles, the murders and atrocities were a secret, but a pretty open one in many quarters. One Polish Holocaust survivor said, "One third of the country wanted to murder another third, while the remaining third stood around in moral confusion".

Collective punishment is outlawed for a reason, because perfect justice is impossible in war and the innocent are swept up with the guilty. Technology has empowered the individual and the ability to organize, but it also empowers the state more and can aid in the repression of organized descent. However, in war, we inflict harm on other nations, the good the bad and the indifferent among them, all get the stick in one way or another.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
printer said:
US secretly modified HIMARS for Ukraine to prevent Kyiv from shooting long-range missiles into Russia
The Pentagon secretly modified advanced rocket systems it sent to Ukraine to make the weapons unable to fire into Russia and escalate the war.
Since June, the U.S. has supplied Kyiv with 20 of the High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS), but the weapons are uniquely modified so they can’t fire long-range missiles, the Wall Street Journal reported, citing U.S. officials.

The HIMARS are wheeled vehicles equipped with rocket systems, which are attached to the back.
Along with the HIMARS, the U.S. has supplied Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) with a range of 50 miles, which have been used to strike Russian ammunition depots and command centers within Ukraine.

When President Biden announced the Defense Department was shipping the HIMARS and ammunition to Ukraine at the end of May, he said they would only be used for defense and the administration was “not going to send to Ukraine rocket systems that strike into Russia.”
Ukrainian President Voldymyr Zelensky also promised at the time not to use the missile systems to strike targets inside Russia.
The U.S. has also resisted sending Army Tactical Missile System (ATMS) rockets, a surface-to-surface missile that can hit targets up to 186 miles away. Officials cited similar concerns about Ukraine striking targets in Russia.

Kyiv has asked for the ATMS rockets for months, stressing the missile system would only be used to strike targets within Ukraine.
Washington has so far resisted calls from senators to send highly advanced Gray Eagle MQ-1C drones to Ukraine over fears they could strike targets in Russia and be recovered by Russian forces.

Moscow, which has repeatedly rebuked the U.S. for arming Ukraine, has warned Washington against sending Ukraine more advanced weaponry.

Maria Zakharova, a spokeswoman for Russia’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, said in a September briefing the U.S. would “cross the red line and become a party to the conflict” if it sent longer-range missiles to Kyiv.

Calls to provide Ukraine with longer-range missile systems and more advanced weaponry to strike back have grown more urgent after Russia in October began bombarding civilian infrastructure and energy grids in Ukraine.
A new wave of Russian rocket strikes hit cities across Ukraine on Monday.

Washington has provided billions of dollars for Ukraine since the war began and has slowly upgraded Kyiv’s arsenal as the conflict has dragged on, moving from anti-tank Javelin missiles to Switchblade drones and HIMARS.
thehill.com

US secretly modified HIMARS for Ukraine to prevent Kyiv from shooting long-range missiles into Russia

The Pentagon secretly modified advanced rocket systems it sent to Ukraine to make the weapons unable to fire into Russia and escalate the war. Since June, the U.S. has supplied Kyiv with 20 of the …
thehill.com thehill.com
Click to expand...
"Washington has provided billions of dollars for Ukraine since the war began and has slowly upgraded Kyiv’s arsenal as the conflict has dragged on, moving from anti-tank Javelin missiles to Switchblade drones and HIMARS."
fucking broken ass himars...
oh my fucking god i want to go off on a huge rant about what motherfucking cowards we and NATO are...but i've ranted before, still feel the same way...fuck putin, and fuck his fucking nukes, i'm motherfucking sick of kissing russian ass, i'm about ready to start planting fucking boots in russian asses...why are we still playing this fucking game? swift, sudden, decisive action...take his nuke bases, ground and destroy his planes, fuck up his army, and slam his ass into a cell at the Hague, along with half his fucking government and all of his military officers...ALL OF THEM...yesterday.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Roger A. Shrubber said:
"Washington has provided billions of dollars for Ukraine since the war began and has slowly upgraded Kyiv’s arsenal as the conflict has dragged on, moving from anti-tank Javelin missiles to Switchblade drones and HIMARS."
fucking broken ass himars...
oh my fucking god i want to go off on a huge rant about what motherfucking cowards we and NATO are...but i've ranted before, still feel the same way...fuck putin, and fuck his fucking nukes, i'm motherfucking sick of kissing russian ass, i'm about ready to start planting fucking boots in russian asses...why are we still playing this fucking game? swift, sudden, decisive action...take his nuke bases, ground and destroy his planes, fuck up his army, and slam his ass into a cell at the Hague, along with half his fucking government and all of his military officers...ALL OF THEM...yesterday.
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that’s why the big hall in the UN conspicuously displays this sign

1670266413518.jpeg
 
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