Well N A, The Tankless Water Heater is the Bomb!

legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Hey man, although I think you should be shot for wasting water like that. I do have a electric solenoid valve laying around somewhere. I think it's 110 so you could just plug it into your controller. Remember to crank down the flow on your heater to minimum water flow to conserve some water.

It's a great system through. Just installed another in a seperate flower room. This one doesn't use a pump but the hot water goes into another water tank that preheats water used for hydronic heating
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Old thread but I'm not sure I get this, I assume these are not condensing units? I haven't taken readings from a noncondensing one but I'm getting some pretty high CO readings out of the condensing type, I believe Navien just asked for a waiver of their exhaust CO that on startup is well over 400 ppm
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
Old thread but I'm not sure I get this, I assume these are not condensing units? I haven't taken readings from a noncondensing one but I'm getting some pretty high CO readings out of the condensing type, I believe Navien just asked for a waiver of their exhaust CO that on startup is well over 400 ppm
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Condensing vs non condensing what, exactly?

They're talking about tankless water heaters being repurposed as water cooled CO2 generators.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Condensing vs non condensing what, exactly?

They're talking about tankless water heaters being repurposed as water cooled CO2 generators.
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I know they are, there are two types. One is a condensing unit that has a drain to remove condensate same as a high effeicency furnace and has plastic venting. The other is a noncondensing with steel vent. The condensing ones that I have tested run very high CO out the vent. I have techs test all new installs re a combustion analyzer (it's the law). These typically run into the hundreds on low fire (based on flow). Just always wondered how they are not getting high CO levels in the grow. Also as the oxygen is depleted and CO2 builds, the CO goes higher. Never thought it was a great ideal is all :(.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
I know they are, there are two types. One is a condensing unit that has a drain to remove condensate same as a high effeicency furnace and has plastic venting. The other is a noncondensing with steel vent. The condensing ones that I have tested run very high CO out the vent. I have techs test all new installs re a combustion analyzer (it's the law). These typically run into the hundreds on low fire (based on flow). Just always wondered how they are not getting high CO levels in the grow. Also as the oxygen is depleted and CO2 builds, the CO goes higher. Never thought it was a great ideal is all :(.
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Advanced nutrients used to sell a rebranded tankless water heater as a 'water cooled CO2 generator'. I think you just told me why they stopped.
 
noob12345

noob12345

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
I know they are, there are two types. One is a condensing unit that has a drain to remove condensate same as a high effeicency furnace and has plastic venting. The other is a noncondensing with steel vent. The condensing ones that I have tested run very high CO out the vent. I have techs test all new installs re a combustion analyzer (it's the law). These typically run into the hundreds on low fire (based on flow). Just always wondered how they are not getting high CO levels in the grow. Also as the oxygen is depleted and CO2 builds, the CO goes higher. Never thought it was a great ideal is all :(.
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Ive just ordered this: eBay item no: 301137454438

i was planning on setting the room to vent air like once an hour or something to bring up o2 et vent co levels, i hope it will not give me dangerous levels of co...
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
noob12345 said:
hmmm are those dangerous levels of co?
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If an amateur installed one in an enclosed space and ran it excessively, I'm quite sure he could create a lethal environment.

Carbon monoxide displaces oxygen in the blood much more easily then oxygen itself, so it doesn't take much to make people very sick- or dead.

It's carbon dioxide that's desirable, and a burner needs ample oxygen to do it without dangerous byproducts.
 
noob12345

noob12345

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
If an amateur installed one in an enclosed space and ran it excessively, I'm quite sure he could create a lethal environment.

Carbon monoxide displaces oxygen in the blood much more easily then oxygen itself, so it doesn't take much to make people very sick- or dead.

It's carbon dioxide that's desirable, and a burner needs ample oxygen to do it without dangerous byproducts.
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original poster says he has co monitor and he never even hits 1ppm.... co monitor is a must
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Yes I saw that he had one. I'm just curious how these things are not creating issues? I've seen enough condensing ones that produced huge ppm's and tty is right, as CO2 is produced it displaces o2 as well. I tried to see if they were actually approved by CSA, or any testing agency, didn't find anything but didn't look hard
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
noob12345 said:
just a guess but dosent photosythesis produce o2??
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Yes but not that much lol. Again I check the flue gas when testing and they are at times spewing out pretty high levels and nothing to shut em down, most CO2 burners I've seen have a low O2 sensor, these do not, yes an CO alarm would sound but not shut the unit off and once it starts filling the room it just exponentially gets worse. I'm not saying don't do it, I myself would be very wary of using one for that purpose, it would help to provide combustion air from outside, to burner but then your pressurizing the room.
 
noob12345

noob12345

Well-Known Member
yes, im curious about this, as if it was a serious issue we would surely have heard of more "bad days" people would have had with them. The one i have ordered, (the item number above) says it has a flame sensor which cuts gas in case of improper flame or burn. Surely if there was low o2 it would cause an odd burn which would shut off the heater. am ordering co meter as we speak so i can check it. would like an o2 meter aswell to do some tests but have just ordered co2 controller and o2 meter is not far off same price so it might have to wait a bit lol.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Yes I'm curious to, just from doing the testing I do it seems not a good ideal, but am interested. The flame sensor would only shut the unit down if it was out of the flame so yes it may shut it down but it is in no way a low oxygen sensor. There are many issues that will cause higher exhaust CO Any fossil fuel appliance has the potential to kill and let's face it, we DIYers sometimes cut corners lol.
 
noob12345

noob12345

Well-Known Member
just a thought but when you test them, there is no o2 depletion and it is operating in a normal environment, right? I can't see of any reason why under normal operating conditions they should be burning bad enough to produce as much co as you say. I have also come to the conclusion that the reason they do no produce co in a grow op is because its a sealed room and for all co2 consumed it is replaced by o2 via photosynthesis and the unit will only be running if co2 has been consumed, if there are leaks in the room this would act the same as photosynthèses replacing co2 with air, so i guess its win/win situation. somebody else back this up??
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
noob12345 said:
just a thought but when you test them, there is no o2 depletion and it is operating in a normal environment, right? I can't see of any reason why under normal operating conditions they should be burning bad enough to produce as much co as you say. I have also come to the conclusion that the reason they do no produce co in a grow op is because its a sealed room and for all co2 consumed it is replaced by o2 via photosynthesis and the unit will only be running if co2 has been consumed, if there are leaks in the room this would act the same as photosynthèses replacing co2 with air, so i guess its win/win situation. somebody else back this up??
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Ya I'm not sure either but the Navien's do and at low fire they produce the highest levels, like I said they are trying to get approvals to allow for higher CO levels, the limit in the US is 400 ppm air free. And yup I've never tested one in a sealed environment, the ones I do test bring combustion air in from outside so always 21% o2. Things can change re dirt on burner, flame impingement, spider webs on intake, that can spike the CO. I haven't searched but would love to see if the water cooled ones are CGA certified, the ones I did see did not have it as far as I saw. The other thing I don't get is how to get rid of the heat as it must take a huge res to do that :(.
 
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