What If ObamaCare is Found Constitutional

UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
DEAsert dude said:
They would be coerced to stop by the DEA. If they did not stop, the DEA would come in and ransack their church. If they still did not stop, the DEA shoot their dog and ransack their church. If they still did not stop, the DEA shoot their dog and ransack their church, and arrest them. The church would fight it in court. If the church is able to convince an appellate court that they have a right to distribute, then SCOTUS (might) take the case. If SCOTUS takes the case, they would rule the church has no right to distribute marijuana because the commerce clause forbids it.
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you sure know a lot about how the DEA works :lol:

i wonder why? wait, no i don't.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
desert dude said:
Today I cannot argue with you. I think Catholic hospitals have, as part of their employment contract, their own rules. An employee has the option of not agreeing with that contract and refusing employment. But, as I said, today I am a liberal so contracts don't matter, and the first amendment does not matter.
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should i call a waaaahhhhhhhmbulance?
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
desert dude said:
Catholics consider contraception and abortion mortal sins. They can, and sometimes do excommunicate church members for those sins. Catholic hospitals have a first amendment right to operate their hospitals according the doctrines of their own faith. Catholic hospitals have a first amendment right to provide health coverage that excludes coverage of contraceptives and abortions. Individual Catholics have a right to purchase contraceptives and abortions, but their employer, the Catholic church, has no obligation to purchase those mortally sinful good and services.

Liberal thinking cap: in this case, fuck the first amendment, it is a good thing for employees to have FULL FUCKING COVERAGE!
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Catholic hospitals do not have that right, not when they are within the general commerce - they have that right in their Churches. They do not have a first amendment right to operate a hospital as they wish, outside of conventional regulation. I see you have it turned around there. Catholics have a right to NOT purchase or be given or use contraception, they have no right to refuse to offer such things to those outside of their own faith. A hospital is not a church, it is no different than a refinery, if the catholic church runs a refinery they are not exempt from the rules that govern all refineries.

This has nothing to do with the first amendment, the first amendment in this case applies to the church, churches are singular entities that are Constitutional special cases, hospitals are not. Because I have a particular belief system and happen to own a refinery does not mean that I get special dispensation in how I run my refinery.

If there is a law that says I have to curb my pollution into the local river from my refinery, and my belief system says that God wants me to pollute that river I still don't get to do it and my 1st amendment rights have not been violated.

As I said, it has nothing to do with what is provided but has everything to do with how those provisions are used. Catholics have the right not to use birth control.
 
dontexist21

dontexist21

Well-Known Member
Can a more conservative fellow on this board answer me this. Exactly what makes this law horrible socialist policy which is going to destroy our country when the law was proposed by a CONSERVATIVE think tank, and first implement by a REPUBLICAN governor who later stated that he thinks the entire country should enact this policy. Obama did nothing really but take a conservative idea and implement it. No one is looking at the big picture, so you want to repeal it, fine, but what will you replace it with? Right now we have three options:

A) Single payer: most people would rather bob for apples in barf
B) The current conservative bill which was implemented
C) repeal and do nothing

Option A is never going to happen and option C is going to lead to people dieing, and the system costing us 210 billion over ten years, not to mention everyones premium going up. So we are left with option B, which will save us 120 billion. These numbers are from the CBO, just to let you know. Now following logic, I think I'll stick with option B since we has the most benefit not just to individual but to the consumer also.

With out the mandate the entire system will fall apart, insurance companies are in for the profit. So what happens when they let everyone in the door no matter how sick they are they go bankrupt. And what happens when people go to hospitals under our current system with no insurance. They get treated, and the hospital has to make up for it on people with insurance and they end up paying for it with higher premiums. So can someone tell me how repealing this law makes the country better. And I am not just talking about the idea of "gives me more freedom" I am talking about hard facts. Things I can measure such as the amount premiums go up or down, how many people die from cancer heart disease. With things such as more preventative care, and more people in the risk pool, it can already be predicted that this will have a positive impact. I also believe we need to remember the health care market IS NOT like any other market, since you can never opt out of it. If I take care of my self, pay my insurance and remain healthy and the only reason that my premium goes up is because other people are capable or do not want to get insurance and when they get sick the cost gets past to me. Yes they should have to pay a little bit of tax for negatively impacting me, or they can not go to the hospital.

So before we get anymore emotional sit down and list the pros and cons.

cons: More taxes (but 90% of people will not have to worry since the taxes will be offset, or they have insurance)

pros: premiums stop going up, no longer worry about insurance and getting dropped, people take personal responsibility, most people are covered

So using logic what do we do. If there is a replacement to this plan I have not heard about please fell free to chime in. And remember we can get everyone in the system, the system falls apart from all the sick people.
 
desert dude

desert dude

Well-Known Member
dontexist21 said:
Can a more conservative fellow on this board answer me this. Exactly what makes this law horrible socialist policy which is going to destroy our country when the law was proposed by a CONSERVATIVE think tank, and first implement by a REPUBLICAN governor who later stated that he thinks the entire country should enact this policy. Obama did nothing really but take a conservative idea and implement it. No one is looking at the big picture, so you want to repeal it, fine, but what will you replace it with? Right now we have three options:

A) Single payer: most people would rather bob for apples in barf
B) The current conservative bill which was implemented
C) repeal and do nothing

Option A is never going to happen and option C is going to lead to people dieing, and the system costing us 210 billion over ten years, not to mention everyones premium going up. So we are left with option B, which will save us 120 billion. These numbers are from the CBO, just to let you know. Now following logic, I think I'll stick with option B since we has the most benefit not just to individual but to the consumer also.

With out the mandate the entire system will fall apart, insurance companies are in for the profit. So what happens when they let everyone in the door no matter how sick they are they go bankrupt. And what happens when people go to hospitals under our current system with no insurance. They get treated, and the hospital has to make up for it on people with insurance and they end up paying for it with higher premiums. So can someone tell me how repealing this law makes the country better. And I am not just talking about the idea of "gives me more freedom" I am talking about hard facts. Things I can measure such as the amount premiums go up or down, how many people die from cancer heart disease. With things such as more preventative care, and more people in the risk pool, it can already be predicted that this will have a positive impact. I also believe we need to remember the health care market IS NOT like any other market, since you can never opt out of it. If I take care of my self, pay my insurance and remain healthy and the only reason that my premium goes up is because other people are capable or do not want to get insurance and when they get sick the cost gets past to me. Yes they should have to pay a little bit of tax for negatively impacting me, or they can not go to the hospital.

So before we get anymore emotional sit down and list the pros and cons.

cons: More taxes (but 90% of people will not have to worry since the taxes will be offset, or they have insurance)

pros: premiums stop going up, no longer worry about insurance and getting dropped, people take personal responsibility, most people are covered

So using logic what do we do. If there is a replacement to this plan I have not heard about please fell free to chime in. And remember we can get everyone in the system, the system falls apart from all the sick people.
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Gosh, I would sure like to help you out, but I am a liberal for the day. Maybe one of the haters can answer your question with some hate-filled venom, written in sick baby's blood.
 
dontexist21

dontexist21

Well-Known Member
Yes he took an idea from a conservative think tank which makes it a conservative idea, try again, I'll be here all day.
 
dontexist21

dontexist21

Well-Known Member
Again it was put together by a CONSERVATIVE THINK TANK the heritage foundation, you do not know what you are talking about. Because when I think of keeping a mojority of the reponsibility of health care to large corporations I think of liberals. Even Reagan raised taxes, and the taxes are used to make people actually buy the insurance, realizing that 90% of people will not have the tax penalty apply to them, since they would already have insurance or be to poor. Again try again.
 
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