What If ObamaCare is Found Constitutional

dontexist21 said:

service will get better, and a slew of other nice positives. So what is wrong, I see no wrong.

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I have to disagree. The quality of doctors will keep going down. They will not make as much, yet school costs will keep going up. People who are intelligent enough, yet want to make lots of money will choose other careers. Most doctors are not in it for the "love of people". They are in it for the love of science........and money. When the money goes away, so do the doctors who are smart enough to make lots of money doing something else.

2nd rate doctors, that's part of what's wrong.

dontexist21 said:

Nope you are only taxed when you don't have health care and am forcing my premium to go up. It is forceing other to take personal responsibility for their health and not drive my rate through the roof expecting free health care when they get sick. Sorry it is a little more complicated then just a new tax. What is wrong with forcing people to take personal responsibility for their health. Should I be punshised when others who can get health care just refuse so when they get sick the cost of their service gets past to me. NO.

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No wonder most of you lefties are for this POS legislation, you have no clue what it is, not a clue!

kelly4 said:

Don't yell at me....I gots me sum helth care.

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in that case, you'll get a rebate, not a tax.

kelly4 said:

I have to disagree. The quality of doctors will keep going down. They will not make as much, yet school costs will keep going up. People who are intelligent enough, yet want to make lots of money will choose other careers. Most doctors are not in it for the "love of people". They are in it for the love of science........and money. When the money goes away, so do the doctors who are smart enough to make lots of money doing something else.

2nd rate doctors, that's part of what's wrong.

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did all the doctors in countries with truly socialized medicine go away? how do they manage better stats than us with no doctors or second rate doctors?

i'm stupid, someone explain it to me.

for that matter, they pay teachers dick. so why would anyone ever want to teach?

beenthere said:

No wonder most of you lefties are for this POS legislation, you have no clue what it is, not a clue!

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Then tell us oh wise wizard.

Why do you say that tell me one reason this would happen. The government is not insuring people corporations still are. We are just telling them that they have to insure everyone, they can not drop them, and we get to buy on a open market in insurance exchanges, but in return everyone would be required to purchase from you. Doctors will get paid the same rate and they will have reform with mal practice, so their insurance goes down. It is a win win, more people enter the market needing doctors they make more money. The top doctors make hundreds of thousands to millions, they will only make more from more people being able to afford them. Your putting more people in a paying market that generally leads to more doctors.

dontexist21 said:

Funny that you mention it conservatives only starting hating the plan as soon as Obama put his name on it, but before that it WAS THEIR PLAN. So no the only reason they hate it is because Obama is the one putting it into law. And I will repeat the liberal plan put forward was a single payer system where to government takes over ALL of health care. Romeny loved it a few years ago, even put it into law in his own state, what changed Obama decided that it would be a good middle ground.

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But Obama is black...

UncleBuck said:

for that matter, they pay teachers dick. so why would anyone ever want to teach?

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Over $100k per year is dick? I want me some of that schlong.

Canna Sylvan said:

Over $100k per year is dick? I want me some of that schlong.

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you're thinking of administrators.

i have two family members teaching in LA (expensive cost of living) at private schools and making about $50k. you have any idea how much rent is on a studio in LA?

UncleBuck said:

you're thinking of administrators.

i have two family members teaching in LA (expensive cost of living) at private schools and making about $50k. you have any idea how much rent is on a studio in LA?

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Teachers in the highest tier can make over $100k. Especially in Orange County.

dontexist21 said:

Exactly how does the health care bill lead to jobs being lost. You said something but, but you give me nothing to believe its logical.

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Sorry, I was under the assumption people who supported the bill actually understood it. What was I thinking? lol

Employers with over 50 employees are now forced to provide healthcare to all full times. So those business's with 50-X amount of employees will be laying off workers to get to under 50 and start hiring part times. Go on any small business message board and you will see for your self. My dads cousin owns a bunch of restaurants down south, he has 100+ employees and he will be drastically cutting down his full times to part times. So, like I said, enjoy those lay offs and part times!

UncleBuck said:

for that matter, they pay teachers dick. so why would anyone ever want to teach?

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Too dumb to be doctors......not for long though.

dontexist21 said:

Why do you say that tell me one reason this would happen. The government is not insuring people corporations still are. We are just telling them that they have to insure everyone, they can not drop them, and we get to buy on a open market in insurance exchanges, but in return everyone would be required to purchase from you. Doctors will get paid the same rate and they will have reform with mal practice, so their insurance goes down. It is a win win, more people enter the market needing doctors they make more money. The top doctors make hundreds of thousands to millions, they will only make more from more people being able to afford them. Your putting more people in a paying market that generally leads to more doctors.

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Have you seen.....never mind.
My wife is in the medical field, on the business end. Being the VP of operations, she works with doctors every day.
Stop getting your "facts" from the TV, and go talk to some doctors in different medical fields. You know, the people who's livelyhood is affected most by this ruling. Go talk to some of them, then get back to me.

kelly4 said:

Have you seen.....never mind.
My wife is in the medical field, on the business end. Being the VP of operations, she works with doctors every day.
Stop getting your "facts" from the TV, and go talk to some doctors in different medical fields. You know, the people who's livelyhood is affected most by this ruling. Go talk to some of them, then get back to me.

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Yeah and I know doctors to and do talk to them, I was int the medical research field for a while. So again, why would doctors make less when the private corporations are still in charge of insurance just like it was before the bill. What drastic change would cause them to make less. You have not provided me with any facts to support your claim. Doctors will have to report that how much they make from big pharma, but last time i check i want my doc to prescribe me medication because I need it, not because he is getting paid to.

Johnny Retro said:

Sorry, I was under the assumption people who supported the bill actually understood it. What was I thinking? lol

Employers with over 50 employees are now forced to provide healthcare to all full times. So those business's with 50-X amount of employees will be laying off workers to get to under 50 and start hiring part times. Go on any small business message board and you will see for your self. My dads cousin owns a bunch of restaurants down south, he has 100+ employees and he will be drastically cutting down his full times to part times. So, like I said, enjoy those lay offs and part times!

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Yeah not for all businesses are going to be cutting everyone off to part time. Yes some people will save by doing that, but the system as a whole will be better. Now I ask you do you believe the system that we have before the bill was better with people dieing from cancer and being dropped from their coverage. When ever you have a change negative impacts do happen, but as a whole everything comes out better. If you want to repeal it so bad what could we possible replace it with? Just to let you know repealing the bill with out replacing it will cost us 210 billion, I wonder how many jobs will be lost with an additional 210 billion added to the debt.

I love how everyone is yelling to repeal the law, yet provide no replacement plan. I am all ears for what you think we should fix the system. Of course the first few years will be some pain, we are over hauling a system which has needed it for at least a century. Does anyone one really think it is going to be easy? If this is the job killing bill that you talk about how is it that my family which actually does own restaurants, it will now be easier for us to give our employees health care, it was far to expensive before this bill. Some people believe that giving their employees health care is not their concern. It is the way they run their business, but many merchants will be thrilled since they know happy employees also lead to happy customers from better service. When you take into account all the aspects of the bill, is it a net positive or negative with people not being able to get dropped, premiums leveling, people have insurance, care getting better ( health care is still a PRIVATE industry). Now that their are insurance trades people can buy their coverage on the open market, was that not what people wanted. Now you complaining that about one aspect so I guess we should throw away the other part. Yes lets stop letting people get primary care, since we all know it so much cheaper to let them live with what ever illness then treat it when it just starts to prevent for serious expensive procedures. I can go on all day about the net positives this bill creates, but you guys are to hung up on small aspects you ignore the majority of the bill.

Either give people a replacement which also has net positives OR this is what we have. And to clarify I do not like everything in the bill, such as abstidence only education to prevent teen pregnacy, but I realise that it is a process. This is how government works, you try something out and down the road to change. Sorry the government is complicated, and making it work is hard. You can not just yell for something since you believe it is wrong without providing any facts. Just because ONE business owner is going to start firing and cutting hours does not mean everyone will. Some businesses will start providing coverage knowing premiums are not going up 30 percent a year. When the data come in on how it affects them, then change can be made again.

dontexist21 said:

I love how everyone is yelling to repeal the law, yet provide no replacement plan. I am all ears for what you think we should fix the system. Of course the first few years will be some pain, we are over hauling a system which has needed it for at least a century. Does anyone one really think it is going to be easy? If this is the job killing bill that you talk about how is it that my family which actually does own restaurants, it will now be easier for us to give our employees health care, it was far to expensive before this bill. Some people believe that giving their employees health care is not their concern. It is the way they run their business, but many merchants will be thrilled since they know happy employees also lead to happy customers from better service. When you take into account all the aspects of the bill, is it a net positive or negative with people not being able to get dropped, premiums leveling, people have insurance, care getting better ( health care is still a PRIVATE industry). Now that their are insurance trades people can buy their coverage on the open market, was that not what people wanted. Now you complaining that about one aspect so I guess we should throw away the other part. Yes lets stop letting people get primary care, since we all know it so much cheaper to let them live with what ever illness then treat it when it just starts to prevent for serious expensive procedures. I can go on all day about the net positives this bill creates, but you guys are to hung up on small aspects you ignore the majority of the bill.

Either give people a replacement which also has net positives OR this is what we have.

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The thing is I am for national coverage but what you guys aren't seeing is it inst free. We are forcing people that don't have insurance that works to buy insurance, or pay a 1000tax. Nothing is free, then on top of that they are forcing business over 50 employees to pay 2k a head or supply a insurance (But YOU the worker is still forced to pay premiums). This will bill will make sure everyone is covered but its fucked up way of doing it.

nontheist said:

The thing is I am for national coverage but what you guys aren't seeing is it inst free. We are forcing people that don't have insurance that works to buy insurance, or pay a 1000tax. Nothing is free, then on top of that they are forcing business over 50 employees to pay 2k a head or supply a insurance (But YOU the worker is still forced to pay premiums). This will bill will make sure everyone is covered but its fucked up way of doing it.

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So you are forcing someone to buy insurance so what. Again if someone goes to the hospital and is sick they will be treated, but the cost gets past to me as higher premium. People need to take responsibility for themselves, and if people cannot afford it there will be government vouchers to help them. The way they went around small businesses with insurance needs to be changed, but it can be changed which is the good thing. The ONLY other way to get insurance to everyone is government to take over like they do in Europe. But that does not seem likely in this country. If you force companies to cover everyone, only sick people will buy the insurance and the insurance companies go bankrupt. What are the alternatives? I have been asking it over and over again. But no one has provided ONE.

This law is only a start, when thing don't work we fix 'em. I am not for big government or small, I like agile government. One which is able to respond to problems and direct resources when needed, but still understands that people have rights.

dontexist21 said:

This law is only a start, when thing don't work we fix 'em. I am not for big government or small, I like agile government. One which is able to respond to problems and direct resources when needed, but still understands that people have rights.

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Fix em? Who's been turned down to see a doctor? What right are you talking about? The right for me to subsidize their healthcare?