Where is the line, for you?

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BigNBushy

Well-Known Member
I remember watching the news coverage that seemed to drone on and on after 9/11 with my dad. I remember it as days or weeks of pretty much the same thing.

My dad told me, the world, or at least America will never be the same.

Over twelve years later, he is looking pretty wise with that statement.

Since then we've seen the Patriot Act, which most of us probably supported at the time. This culminated in the revelations by Mr. SNOWDEN that the government is probably spying and compiling information on all of us.

We've invaded two countries and been at a state of war since 2002.

And by and large both parties have been culpable in this. Obviously how much we blame one depends on our own leanings.

But have we crossed a line for you?

Has America become antithetical to its principals of freedom?

Both sides can point to things done by the other side since that fateful day.

Both sides could probably agree things were better prior to it.

Can we return ?

If not, where did we cross the line for you to prevent our return?
 
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BigNBushy

Well-Known Member
We is America. Maybe it is because we lacked the technology, but prior to 9/11 we weren't spying on all citizens
 
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BigNBushy

Well-Known Member
I'm not worried about it in the sense of getting caught doing something. I don't do much illegal these days.

I worry about it in the sense that the government is looking at it.

It don't matter to me that I've got nothing to hide. They shouldn't be looking.
 
ProHuman

ProHuman

Well-Known Member
9/11 was the catastrophic event which was needed to launch America into a never ending war. A war which has no real enemies, other than those who oppose the shadow governments complete take over of the world.
This was all planned out in the PNAC document which was written by a neocon think tank before 9/11. Nothing is more profitable than war. Destroying nations to rebuild them, and occupy them while instilling corrupt systems of government, and promoting giant corporations is necessary for the international banks to dominate with their enslavement of fractional reserve banking practices.
Big brother will watch over us, while the majority of the population continue to work for just enough to pay for food, housing, and other essentials of life. There are many more people who are either living off the government, or just barely making enough to make end meet, living paycheck to paycheck.

"They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
 
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BigNBushy

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
i'm happy were aren't rushing into ukraine, i think the president is doing a good job.
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Yes, not declaring war on Russia. Obama is the only one who would not do that.

Of course, had we not abandoned missile defense in Poland, backed at the red line he drew himself in Syria, Ukraine might not be a Russian playground.
 
killemsoftly

killemsoftly

Well-Known Member
BigNBushy said:
Yes, not declaring war on Russia. Obama is the only one who would not do that.

Of course, had we not abandoned missile defense in Poland, backed at the red line he drew himself in Syria, Ukraine might not be a Russian playground.
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Yeah, what a dummy, seeking to avoid conflict. Bet the American people are game for a few more wars. Then you guys will get to bitch and moan about the debt again.
 
MellowFarmer

MellowFarmer

Well-Known Member
Right? We are Free to do as we are told. The line was crossed so long ago but in such small increments- I can lead anyone from a direct north heading to a direct south heading without them noticing if I change the course by very small increments over and over like they have done with our freedoms.
 
Nutes and Nugs

Nutes and Nugs

Well-Known Member
BigNBushy said:
I remember watching the news coverage that seemed to drone on and on after 9/11 with my dad. I remember it as days or weeks of pretty much the same thing.

My dad told me, the world, or at least America will never be the same.

Over twelve years later, he is looking pretty wise with that statement.

Since then we've seen the Patriot Act, which most of us probably supported at the time. This culminated in the revelations by Mr. SNOWDEN that the government is probably spying and compiling information on all of us.

We've invaded two countries and been at a state of war since 2002.

And by and large both parties have been culpable in this. Obviously how much we blame one depends on our own leanings.

But have we crossed a line for you?

Has America become antithetical to its principals of freedom?

Both sides can point to things done by the other side since that fateful day.

Both sides could probably agree things were better prior to it.

Can we return ?

If not, where did we cross the line for you to prevent our return?
Click to expand...
I remember watching the news with my gf's 16 year old daughter that day.
She became bored with the news and wanted to watch The Simpsons but they were cancelled that day.

It's sad because so many people don't know of the wars and what this country has fought for and won.

The Patriot Act and NSA still fuck up as much as they spy on everyone via telecommunication.

We can never return.
But we can learn.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
BigNBushy said:
I remember watching the news coverage that seemed to drone on and on after 9/11 with my dad. I remember it as days or weeks of pretty much the same thing.

My dad told me, the world, or at least America will never be the same.

Over twelve years later, he is looking pretty wise with that statement.

Since then we've seen the Patriot Act, which most of us probably supported at the time. This culminated in the revelations by Mr. SNOWDEN that the government is probably spying and compiling information on all of us.

We've invaded two countries and been at a state of war since 2002.

And by and large both parties have been culpable in this. Obviously how much we blame one depends on our own leanings.

But have we crossed a line for you?

Has America become antithetical to its principals of freedom?

Both sides can point to things done by the other side since that fateful day.

Both sides could probably agree things were better prior to it.

Can we return ?

If not, where did we cross the line for you to prevent our return?
Click to expand...

"America" crossed the line from its beginning. Slave holders formed a country where everybody was said to be equal. Which is of course an impossibility.

If everybody were equal, nobody could give another persons consent to "belong" to a country or organization unless that person gave their actual consent. If a person or group of people call you equal and then decide whether or not you must be included in something whether you want to or not, there is a n obvious paradox.

America as a bastion of freedom, was and always has been based in a lie.
 
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schuylaar

Well-Known Member
BigNBushy said:
We is America. Maybe it is because we lacked the technology, but prior to 9/11 we weren't spying on all citizens
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yeah and even when we had intelligence that earmarked OBL "chatter", bush ignored it..though i wouldn't worry about too much about obama listening in on your cell conversations or seeing the size of your dick while you wack off to porn sites.
 
ProHuman

ProHuman

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
"America" crossed the line from its beginning. Slave holders formed a country where everybody was said to be equal. Which is of course an impossibility.

If everybody were equal, nobody could give another persons consent to "belong" to a country or organization unless that person gave their actual consent. If a person or group of people call you equal and then decide whether or not you must be included in something whether you want to or not, there is a n obvious paradox.

America as a bastion of freedom, was and always has been based in a lie.
Click to expand...
Slaves have been involved in many great civilizations throughout history.
Egypt, China, Persia, India, Greece, Rome, etc were built by slaves.

Take a good look at what we are now, as my previous post indicated, we are still slaves. We are owned by our masters, which control our government and media. We are told what to buy, who to vote for, what to conform to, and how to behave. We are being guided with precision and stealth, we have a false sense of freedom.
 
B

BigNBushy

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
"America" crossed the line from its beginning. Slave holders formed a country where everybody was said to be equal. Which is of course an impossibility.

If everybody were equal, nobody could give another persons consent to "belong" to a country or organization unless that person gave their actual consent. If a person or group of people call you equal and then decide whether or not you must be included in something whether you want to or not, there is a n obvious paradox.

America as a bastion of freedom, was and always has been based in a lie.
Click to expand...
This country had slavery imposed on it by the British. When they created the constitution, it had within it the seeds of the destruction of slavery.

Very early on, in 1808 we made a law prohibiting the importation of new slaves. The founders fought slavery where and how they could. It was a disease that had no instant cure, that would not kill the host. For the nation to exist, it had to accept slavery for a brief time. The British had addicted to much of what would become the United States onto slavery.
 
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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
i'm happy were aren't rushing into ukraine, i think the president is doing a good job.
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LOL Putin holds all the trump cards. Obama won't do ANYTHING, because it will expose just how poorly situated the US really is.

Talk is all Obama will ever do, hell we can't even launch any satellites into space without Russia. Russia is the only game in town. Perhaps Obama will end up cutting his nose off to spite his face, Its almost a certainty.

You all know that China and Russia do not use Dollars for trade anymore between themselves, as many other countries are doing. This is the final countdown to the fall of the US Empire.
 
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