Why does YouTube and their owners NOT want you to see this?

Stoney McFried

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
Well, I'm certainly not proselytizing...that involves an attempt to convert others to your path.I merely point out the obvious in regards to religion,which is a man made thing.You're free to voice your opinions,as am I, and we can both expect to be disagreed with.Since no one ever seems to stand up to the overly religious when they begin preaching, I tend to take it upon myself to do so.Because,were I to relentlessly tell folks I am a Satanist, or a pagan,for example, and request that it be taught in schools and used to run the country, I'd certainly get an earful.Religious zealots(most who I have personally encountered being Christians)are used to not being questioned,or questioning themselves.Therefore, you are browbeaten with their message.I'm tired of it, and I for one will not sit silently as it happens.
TheBrutalTruth said:
Of course, Stoney, being against religion is your prerogative, but I wish you would stop proselytizing about your beliefs as well, unless you want me to proselytize about mine.
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stalebiscuit

stalebiscuit

Well-Known Member
Stoney McFried said:
Religion is just mind control, as far as I'm concerned.
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how do you figure, religion has been used most recently to as an outlet for personal freedoms

from the pilgrims to the civil rights

mind control, no not really, Christianity (the only one i can speak for really, in my eyes) its just a set standard to live by

god gave humans free will, this very fact negates the idea of mind control

control through fear, possibly...the fire and brimstone preachers always speak of hell and ever burning fires, while it strikes a negative cord with most...but their heart is in the right place if you ask me

if anything religion generally makes me people better, i have little respect for mans law, as i regard the rights as an individual versus the community supreme....if it werent for gods law and universal ethics i would be a much more violent and generally evil person
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Stoney McFried said:
Well, I'm certainly not proselytizing...that involves an attempt to convert others to your path.I merely point out the obvious in regards to religion,which is a man made thing.You're free to voice your opinions,as am I, and we can both expect to be disagreed with.Since no one ever seems to stand up to the overly religious when they begin preaching, I tend to take it upon myself to do so.Because,were I to relentlessly tell folks I am a Satanist, or a pagan,for example, and request that it be taught in schools and used to run the country, I'd certainly get an earful.Religious zealots(most who I have personally encountered being Christians)are used to not being questioned,or questioning themselves.Therefore, you are browbeaten with their message.I'm tired of it, and I for one will not sit silently as it happens.
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Well, there's surely better places to do express your annoyance than here. It does get repetitive, and tedious, and with prophecy gone, I was hoping the crap about different religious dogmas would chill.

Think about the audience that you are talking to, most of us don't care, because we are too busy doing our own thing in a system that has made us outlaws for doing it. Why would we want to stick up, knowing that the nail that sticks up is the first to get hammered down, and I am sure there are some here that have even more to lose than I do.

Interesting thing about history is that it can lead to seeing what tactics work better. Instead of whining about others, it is usually better to set an example. Leading form the front instead of the rear. If you are so sure that your agnostic or atheistic views are so much better why not found a group that meets once a week, discusses some random aspect of society, collects donations, and then uses some of those donations to do community good. How do you think Christians became so widespread. They set a positive example initially, and asked little in return. They still ask little in return, except for some that do go out of their way to try converting others, and force their beliefs down the throats of others.

Though there are people like that every where. I am sure some Muslims are sick of some sect going around trying to convert everyone to their teachings of the Koran, and that there is some subgroup of Judaism that is the same way.

Religion makes for a very boring topic, especially, because there's basically very little that can be found worthy of objecting to. Don't steal, murder, rape, adulter, fornicate, or be jealous. Good simple rules that people really shouldn't have any problem living by. Of course, it might be a lot less tempting to steal if the punishment for it was death, but :: shrugs :: for some reason it seems to be that the price of society is that we have to treat those that violate the contract with society better than we treat people that don't.

Well, Christian Religion makes for a very boring topic. Greek and Roman Mythology is actually interesting. Vestal Virgins who would be put to death if they didn't remain pure, and the Sacred Hearth of Rome that would harken the end of Rome if it was ever put out (ironically 100 years after the conversion of the Empire to Christianity, and the snuffing of the Sacred Hearth the Empire fell.)

Interesting stuff...

Besides, some people need something to believe in, and if it makes them better people on the whole then what's there to object to? It's not like Christians are advocating for human sacrifices of virgins to feed the angry hunger of their god, or even animal sacrifices. :-)
 
Stoney McFried

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
Well, I most certainly have to disagree with you on this.If we take your statement as a whole, we can probably infer that you are a Christian, as you refer to god in the singular.Does that mean that you feel there is only one god,and your god is my god?Because that seems to be the mindset that fundamentalist Christians are locked into.Why?Not all religions have the same moral code.Why assume your standards are the same as anyone else's?When you stop questioning things, you stop growing.Yes, control through fear is often a tactic of religion.Don't masturbate!Sex is for procreation!Submit to your husband!Women are wicked!Pay tithes to the church! Guilt is a powerful tool.Making you unsure of yourself, making you think you need divine intervention to make daily decisions, to say you are born anything less than innocent....it subverts the individual and makes them part of the mass, the collective sheep, the hive mind.While at the top, the few who are elevated above you,such as the priests, the bishops, the deacons, etc,profit from your fear,have power over you.Power corrupts.Absolute power corrupts absolutely.Everyone has basic inborn "morality". We all learn that it is wrong to harm others for no reason,that wastefulness can be detrimental,that kindness feels good.We don't need anything more than such basics.Religion is a product of man.Created by man, to explain his role in the universe.In it, we have elevated ourselves above the other creatures of this earth.We promise ourselves eternal reward or eternal damnation based upon our thoughts and actions, because we want to feel there is a purpose, that we're all not just food for the worms.Arrogance, plain and simple.If there is a god at the end of the tunnel, we are already part of it.Just a small piece, limited in its ability,limited by its form.How can a finite being comprehend an infinite one?It tries, by making up myths,stories of explanation as to the how and the why of things.But when these beliefs are challenged, clinging desperately without questioning.Even when the old explanations become ridiculous(*see creationists and their museum),still clinging, refusing to see even the possibility of any other way.This is limiting.Which is what religion does.You can't become infinite if you refuse to.
stalebiscuit said:
how do you figure, religion has been used most recently to as an outlet for personal freedoms

from the pilgrims to the civil rights

mind control, no not really, Christianity (the only one i can speak for really, in my eyes) its just a set standard to live by

god gave humans free will, this very fact negates the idea of mind control

control through fear, possibly...the fire and brimstone preachers always speak of hell and ever burning fires, while it strikes a negative cord with most...but their heart is in the right place if you ask me

if anything religion generally makes me people better, i have little respect for mans law, as i regard the rights as an individual versus the community supreme....if it werent for gods law and universal ethics i would be a much more violent and generally evil person
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stalebiscuit

stalebiscuit

Well-Known Member
Stoney McFried said:
Well, I most certainly have to disagree with you on this.If we take your statement as a whole, we can probably infer that you are a Christian, as you refer to god in the singular.Does that mean that you feel there is only one god,and your god is my god?Because that seems to be the mindset that fundamentalist Christians are locked into.Why?Not all religions have the same moral code.Why assume your standards are the same as anyone else's?When you stop questioning things, you stop growing.Yes, control through fear is often a tactic of religion.Don't masturbate!Sex is for procreation!Submit to your husband!Women are wicked!Pay tithes to the church! Guilt is a powerful tool.Making you unsure of yourself, making you think you need divine intervention to make daily decisions, to say you are born anything less than innocent....it subverts the individual and makes them part of the mass, the collective sheep, the hive mind.While at the top, the few who are elevated above you,such as the priests, the bishops, the deacons, etc,profit from your fear,have power over you.Power corrupts.Absolute power corrupts absolutely.Everyone has basic inborn "morality". We all learn that it is wrong to harm others for no reason,that wastefulness can be detrimental,that kindness feels good.We don't need anything more than such basics.Religion is a product of man.Created by man, to explain his role in the universe.In it, we have elevated ourselves above the other creatures of this earth.We promise ourselves eternal reward or eternal damnation based upon our thoughts and actions, because we want to feel there is a purpose, that we're all not just food for the worms.Arrogance, plain and simple.If there is a god at the end of the tunnel, we are already part of it.Just a small piece, limited in its ability,limited by its form.How can a finite being comprehend an infinite one?It tries, by making up myths,stories of explanation as to the how and the why of things.But when these beliefs are challenged, clinging desperately without questioning.Even when the old explanations become ridiculous(*see creationists and their museum),still clinging, refusing to see even the possibility of any other way.This is limiting.Which is what religion does.You can't become infinite if you refuse to.
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im christian not because of my moral convictions (which are almost universally the same) but because i agree with the holy trinity and the fact that jesus christ is my lord and died for my sins and rose on the third day

thats pretty much it, thats why im not mormon, i dont support the story behind it nor their view of the holy trinity. i aint jewish because i believe jesus was the messiah. i am not muslim because i dont agree with muhammad in the least bit as well as disagreeing with their view of the afterlife....i am not orthodox christian for the same reason (i dont like their afterlife view) i am not catholic because i dont believe the copious amount of ritual and right is needed to speak and have a relationship with god. im not episcopalian because i find them to be to lax

i am methodist (and if i wasnt baptist)

i dont think religion is limiting in the least bit, i can still believe what others have said or done to be righteous and a good example to live my life by.......but in the end my life belong to jesus
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Stoney McFried said:
Well, I most certainly have to disagree with you on this.If we take your statement as a whole, we can probably infer that you are a Christian, as you refer to god in the singular.Does that mean that you feel there is only one god,and your god is my god?Because that seems to be the mindset that fundamentalist Christians are locked into.Why?Not all religions have the same moral code.Why assume your standards are the same as anyone else's?When you stop questioning things, you stop growing.Yes, control through fear is often a tactic of religion.Don't masturbate!Sex is for procreation!Submit to your husband!Women are wicked!Pay tithes to the church! Guilt is a powerful tool.Making you unsure of yourself, making you think you need divine intervention to make daily decisions, to say you are born anything less than innocent....it subverts the individual and makes them part of the mass, the collective sheep, the hive mind.While at the top, the few who are elevated above you,such as the priests, the bishops, the deacons, etc,profit from your fear,have power over you.Power corrupts.Absolute power corrupts absolutely.Everyone has basic inborn "morality". We all learn that it is wrong to harm others for no reason,that wastefulness can be detrimental,that kindness feels good.We don't need anything more than such basics.Religion is a product of man.Created by man, to explain his role in the universe.In it, we have elevated ourselves above the other creatures of this earth.We promise ourselves eternal reward or eternal damnation based upon our thoughts and actions, because we want to feel there is a purpose, that we're all not just food for the worms.Arrogance, plain and simple.If there is a god at the end of the tunnel, we are already part of it.Just a small piece, limited in its ability,limited by its form.How can a finite being comprehend an infinite one?It tries, by making up myths,stories of explanation as to the how and the why of things.But when these beliefs are challenged, clinging desperately without questioning.Even when the old explanations become ridiculous(*see creationists and their museum),still clinging, refusing to see even the possibility of any other way.This is limiting.Which is what religion does.You can't become infinite if you refuse to.
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Don't refuse to, made my own choice. Was a firm believer in evolution, now I have my doubts. Especially, because despite decades of trying there is still not an experiment that shows life can arise from nothing.

Besides, how is religion any worse than the government, at least the Church only ASKS for 10%, it's totally optional and up to the person how much they give, or don't give. Compared to the government which SEIZES through threat of force, fines and imprisonment the money that they want, and there is no guarantee that that money will be used to help the United States instead of some backwater village in Central America or Africa.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
Religion is the curse of the spiritual world. It is man's interpretation of God and his words. Man has defiled the spirit world from the beginning. For example: look at how the native Americans looked at God (The great spirit) and the natural world. They survived for millenia on the bounty of nature. Then came the vainglorious catholic assholes to try and reform them and ended up killing millions with their diseases. One could actually say that religion is the evil on earth and not be that far off. Some religions try and do good works, and others pass the snake and claim everyone else is going to hell. I am a spiritualist. I believe in the great spirit and the spirit of man. I also believe in Jesus as a saviour and example of how one should live here on earth. Of course, I can't live up to Jesus's way, But I know if we could, this would be a much better planet to live on.
 
Stoney McFried

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
Brutal, if you don't like what I say, you're free to hit the ignore button.I'm staying on the topic of this thread;the excerpt was from a segment of Zeitgeist explaining religion.If you don't care, don't read it.Simple as that.I refuse to suppress my right to speak freely because you don't like what I say.As for being the first to get hammered down, so be it.Better to die free than live under tyranny.In regards to starting a group,gathering money,and bringing folks into the fold, sounds a lot like a religion to me.No thanks.You can't force enlightenment, but you can challenge ignorance.Nothing I have expressed on here was "whining"Now,if you respond, I'll have to get back to you, picking up my cats from getting neutered.Or,just ignore me if I bother you so much.Have a nice day.
TheBrutalTruth said:
Well, there's surely better places to do express your annoyance than here. It does get repetitive, and tedious, and with prophecy gone, I was hoping the crap about different religious dogmas would chill.

Think about the audience that you are talking to, most of us don't care, because we are too busy doing our own thing in a system that has made us outlaws for doing it. Why would we want to stick up, knowing that the nail that sticks up is the first to get hammered down, and I am sure there are some here that have even more to lose than I do.

Interesting thing about history is that it can lead to seeing what tactics work better. Instead of whining about others, it is usually better to set an example. Leading form the front instead of the rear. If you are so sure that your agnostic or atheistic views are so much better why not found a group that meets once a week, discusses some random aspect of society, collects donations, and then uses some of those donations to do community good. How do you think Christians became so widespread. They set a positive example initially, and asked little in return. They still ask little in return, except for some that do go out of their way to try converting others, and force their beliefs down the throats of others.

Though there are people like that every where. I am sure some Muslims are sick of some sect going around trying to convert everyone to their teachings of the Koran, and that there is some subgroup of Judaism that is the same way.

Religion makes for a very boring topic, especially, because there's basically very little that can be found worthy of objecting to. Don't steal, murder, rape, adulter, fornicate, or be jealous. Good simple rules that people really shouldn't have any problem living by. Of course, it might be a lot less tempting to steal if the punishment for it was death, but :: shrugs :: for some reason it seems to be that the price of society is that we have to treat those that violate the contract with society better than we treat people that don't.

Well, Christian Religion makes for a very boring topic. Greek and Roman Mythology is actually interesting. Vestal Virgins who would be put to death if they didn't remain pure, and the Sacred Hearth of Rome that would harken the end of Rome if it was ever put out (ironically 100 years after the conversion of the Empire to Christianity, and the snuffing of the Sacred Hearth the Empire fell.)

Interesting stuff...

Besides, some people need something to believe in, and if it makes them better people on the whole then what's there to object to? It's not like Christians are advocating for human sacrifices of virgins to feed the angry hunger of their god, or even animal sacrifices. :-)
Click to expand...
 
stalebiscuit

stalebiscuit

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
Religion is the curse of the spiritual world. It is man's interpretation of God and his words. Man has defiled the spirit world from the beginning. For example: look at how the native Americans looked at God (The great spirit) and the natural world. They survived for millenia on the bounty of nature. Then came the vainglorious catholic assholes to try and reform them and ended up killing millions with their diseases. One could actually say that religion is the evil on earth and not be that far off. Some religions try and do good works, and others pass the snake and claim everyone else is going to hell. I am a spiritualist. I believe in the great spirit and the spirit of man. I also believe in Jesus as a saviour and example of how one should live here on earth. Of course, I can't live up to Jesus's way, But I know if we could, this would be a much better planet to live on.
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im sorry, but did the catholic assholes create that disease? or was the disease part of the natural order of the world, you know the gaia they praised had allowed smallpox to thrive

sure the europeans used it to their advantage, but in the end nature killed most of them off

just trying to see all sides here
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Stoney McFried said:
Brutal, if you don't like what I say, you're free to hit the ignore button.I'm staying on the topic of this thread;the excerpt was from a segment of Zeitgeist explaining religion.If you don't care, don't read it.Simple as that.I refuse to suppress my right to speak freely because you don't like what I say.As for being the first to get hammered down, so be it.Better to die free than live under tyranny.In regards to starting a group,gathering money,and bringing folks into the fold, sounds a lot like a religion to me.No thanks.You can't force enlightenment, but you can challenge ignorance.Nothing I have expressed on here was "whining"Now,if you respond, I'll have to get back to you, picking up my cats from getting neutered.Or,just ignore me if I bother you so much.Have a nice day.
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Too much fun to ignore you. Not refusing your right to speak freely, just stating that I think you are proselytizing about your beliefs, and thus I am responding to what you are saying.

Besides, I watched Zeitgeist, and while it raised some interesting points ultimately it fails the test of does it guarantee everyone liberty? That is the ultimate test of any system, and the resource based society that was being pushed in Zeitgeist Addendum does not.

I do not have any desire to see a brilliant author reduced to just having enough to eat, because that is insulting to the author, and ultimately means that instead of bothering to create, people will stop creating, because there is no benefit to it.

Or what about a brilliant painter that makes millions? Or a composer, or a scientists that makes millions by discovering a cure for disease. Society rewards those that enhance it, and those people deserve their rewards.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
stalebiscuit said:
im sorry, but did the catholic assholes create that disease? or was the disease part of the natural order of the world, you know the gaia they praised had allowed smallpox to thrive

sure the europeans used it to their advantage, but in the end nature killed most of them off

just trying to see all sides here
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Nature and a .35/.40 lever action, you could throw in the gatling gun also. Maybe the throng of buffalo hunters that decimated the herds could have had a few credits, the removal from their forever lands and the starving by unscrupolous indian agents. Yeah, there is plenty blame to go around alright, but the mass extinction came from disease. Funny how now, some of the nicest land in the US is owned by tribes. The Hopi and Navaho tribes of northern Az. have some beautiful land, but the Coal companies are strip mining it now for the electric companies. Yeah we need more coal fired plants, (Dubyas plan) whoooya.
 
Stoney McFried

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
While the venus project isn't perfect, it is something to look at.Money does corrupt.There IS too much greed in the world.I don't think they want to reduce everyone to "just having enough to eat",but they do want to see that EVERYONE has enough to eat.There will always be artists, and thinkers,and dreamers, and creators.Technology will free up more time to do that.It's not a perfect model by any means...but just think...if we could eliminate this senseless competition for wealth and power...if everyone could expect to be reasonably healthy,well fed,and comfortable, then why not work towards that?The current system surely isn't working, and there are signs of its inevitable collapse.Even Rome had to fall.If we don't change,we become stagnant.Once again, I say I am not proselytizing, just offering my own ideas.If you don't agree, then you don't have to.I'm not so arrogant as to say my way is the only way.But I do know what doesn't work.
TheBrutalTruth said:
Too much fun to ignore you. Not refusing your right to speak freely, just stating that I think you are proselytizing about your beliefs, and thus I am responding to what you are saying.

Besides, I watched Zeitgeist, and while it raised some interesting points ultimately it fails the test of does it guarantee everyone liberty? That is the ultimate test of any system, and the resource based society that was being pushed in Zeitgeist Addendum does not.

I do not have any desire to see a brilliant author reduced to just having enough to eat, because that is insulting to the author, and ultimately means that instead of bothering to create, people will stop creating, because there is no benefit to it.

Or what about a brilliant painter that makes millions? Or a composer, or a scientists that makes millions by discovering a cure for disease. Society rewards those that enhance it, and those people deserve their rewards.
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chuckbane

chuckbane

New Member
come on now. the only difference between all the religions and Christianity is that those crazy bible humpers (yes, Humpers) killed people who didn't believe.
..
..
Oh, and they created heaven and hell. Smart tactic.
 
J

Jtoth3ustin

Well-Known Member
fuck yea... finally..... i went to catholic skool for 12 years. i get detention and shit. I HAVE BEEN CALLED blashpemer. there isnt a god. its you, me, are parents...we die. fuck get over it..... that video proves it. the bible is nothing. there are over 1200 translations of it........ but who the fuck can prove that its reallll no one... but who can prove that it is false???? welll that vid sumed it up pretty well dont ya think
 
riolman

riolman

Well-Known Member
I watched this movie a long time ago, like last year or something. Personally, I hate it lol just because it makes me feel like a worthless piece of shit. I mean firmly stating that all religion is bogus and that we are not here for any divine reason but just by accident and that my own government is taking advantage of me an other citizens plus the fact that soon we will all be under control of a few rich ass holes once a world wide currency is in effect...i might as well just kill my self lol!
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Stoney McFried said:
While the venus project isn't perfect, it is something to look at.Money does corrupt.There IS too much greed in the world.I don't think they want to reduce everyone to "just having enough to eat",but they do want to see that EVERYONE has enough to eat.There will always be artists, and thinkers,and dreamers, and creators.Technology will free up more time to do that.It's not a perfect model by any means...but just think...if we could eliminate this senseless competition for wealth and power...if everyone could expect to be reasonably healthy,well fed,and comfortable, then why not work towards that?The current system surely isn't working, and there are signs of its inevitable collapse.Even Rome had to fall.If we don't change,we become stagnant.Once again, I say I am not proselytizing, just offering my own ideas.If you don't agree, then you don't have to.I'm not so arrogant as to say my way is the only way.But I do know what doesn't work.
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Strange, the only thing that we've been trying to the last 50 years is the approach of Big Government, perhaps you were not here in the United States for the last 50 years?

Big Government hasn't worked, and if the critics of the gilded age are credible, (which I am finding more and more unlikely, due to their refusal to admit to their own ideology's short comings) then the capitalistic system of the gilded age didn't work. Feudalism didn't work. Unmodified Communism didn't work, and the kind of Socialism practiced in Europe sure in the hell isn't working, as the spending power of Europe's middle class continues to get destroyed by inflation, and ever increasing taxes, and thus becomes poor even as the rich of that continent continue to get richer.

Of course, I think the biggest problem is that we have let our bureaucrats get away with screwing over the country, by adhering to treaties such as WTO, NAFTA and GATT that surrender our national right to impose duties and tariffs on goods being imported to the United States to protect our jobs.

As the people that so ardently support the Unions pointed out, the manufacturing sector is what built the middle class. And they are probably, for the most part correct, but with out a strong manufacturing sector there is little need for unions to police corporations to make sure they look out for employee safety and employee well being.

Clearly, there is a difference between the mind numbing repetitiveness of office work, and the mind numbing repetitiveness of manufacturing work, in that the latter can be potentially dangerous.

Of course, the latest hero of the big government crowd, Obama, wants to send $25 Billion to help Africa, when our own country is facing a crisis. If its necessary I'll be more than happy to pull up the exact policy page where it's stated.

The solution is not to rob from one group of people what they earned through their own sweat and blood, the solution is to force government to ensure that there are jobs of sufficient quantity and quality that any one that desires to get ahead can get ahead.

If that means giving the global community the middle finger, and resorting to isolationism we should do it. Clearly internationalism and globalization has not been working for the United States and her people.
 
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