Will the DG go the way of the dodo bird?

VILEPLUME

Well-Known Member
Good find, but I think tons of people will still grow their own. A lot of sick people will probably be going to jail after the rule is changed.
 

Pharoah

Active Member
Good find, but I think tons of people will still grow their own. A lot of sick people will probably be going to jail after the rule is changed.

I don't believe this to be true, the sick people going to jail part of it anyway. Any quasi-good lawyer would be able to use financial statements along with A) Prior Health Canada Exemption under current program and/or B) Prescription via a doctor once commercial growers exist, to effectively have any criminal charges dropped, up to and including cultivation of an illegal substance, as a large majority of people will be unable to afford their meds from a commercial grower. Which will render the new program as unconstitutional, or favoring only those with wealth, unless they implement a form of coverage where the cost's of meds are greatly reduced, specifically for those with incomes that boarder poverty.

If this doesn't happen, you will see countless people being granted the ability to produce their own by judges who have a constitutional obligation to protect the citizens of their city from corruption and malice through judicial rulings.

I believe this program Harper believes to will solve the organized crime issues relating to medicinal cannabis, will really solve the organized crime issues, but not in the way he expects, I believe this is the beginning of legalization here in Canada, I believe that once this new system is put in place, it'll be beaten down by court case after court case after court case, which will ultimately end up with the judges of the highest levels legalizing it because the government CAN'T control it.
 

ru4r34l

Well-Known Member
I hope you are right Pharoah as I have talked with many licensed growers who are now worried that because they have followed the current law and have thier grow operation registered. The biggest worry is come 2014 will the RCMP will show up to make sure I have cesed production.

My personal opinion is this change will lead to many, many cultivation charges IF the Canadian government decides to clamp down after this new legislation, which I am sure they will do! Harper is a fan of American style private prisons filled with non-violent pot smokers with the tax-payers paying to feed and house these people.

If a plantiff has the money to fight (and many medical canabis cultivators unfortunately do not) there may be some light at the end of the tunnel but for the every day licensed grower who is growing <= 5 plants, prosecution is effectively a LIFE or DEATH SENTENCE! depends on how you look at it

regards,
 

Pharoah

Active Member
I hope you are right Pharoah as I have talked with many licensed growers who are now worried that because they have followed the current law and have thier grow operation registered. The biggest worry is come 2014 will the RCMP will show up to make sure I have cesed production.

My personal opinion is this change will lead to many, many cultivation charges IF the Canadian government decides to clamp down after this new legislation, which I am sure they will do! Harper is a fan of American style private prisons filled with non-violent pot smokers with the tax-payers paying to feed and house these people.

If a plantiff has the money to fight (and many medical canabis cultivators unfortunately do not) there may be some light at the end of the tunnel but for the every day licensed grower who is growing <= 5 plants, prosecution is effectively a LIFE or DEATH SENTENCE! depends on how you look at it

regards,
Agreed, but this is where Legal Aid comes in to play, low income individuals have just as much right to representation as high income individuals, anyone can obtain a Lawyer, and some top grade lawyers may even do it Pro-Bono as they themselves might consume medical cannabis, just to set a precedence for cultivation of medicinal cannabis in Canada, or more likely, the province in which the charge was made.
 

Krabby

Active Member
At the risk of sounding like I'm wearing a tin foil helmet, I think the government is at a loss trying to figure out how they can go about seizing control of the financial side of cultivation. I think that once they are the sole growers/suppliers to the medical community getting an MMAR card is going to be a lot easier. I could be wrong but I think it's all about the bottom line......$$$
 

VILEPLUME

Well-Known Member
Anyone else think that 10 years ago we would all be growing it legally by now in Canada?

Arn't we the ones that were pushing North America forward in legalization? Why is this getting worse and not better?
 

Pharoah

Active Member
I think you should consider looking up how the new system will work to begin with, there will be NO MMAR, you will be required to have a doctor fill out a form EVERY TIME YOU NEED MORE, similar to how prescriptions work already, you go in, Doc signs for a bottle of pills, you go to pharmacy, only in this case it's, You go in to the Doc, Doc signs form, you send form to commercial producer, they ship you your meds. Repeat for each supply required.

There will be no MMAR authorizations, and from my understanding, the Police will differentiate medicinal cannabis with illegal cannabis by the stamp on the bag it comes in (Stamp from commercial growers validates it's medicinal status) as "Exemption" cards will no longer exist.
 

Krabby

Active Member
Thanks for the clarification Pharoah, I have not read about the new system, I'll take a look. With politics and policies it's always changing, I guess we'll only know the final outcome when it's knocking at the door.
 

Pharoah

Active Member
Yup, but it's also always good to keep up on the evolution of such things so that you aware of how they got to be the way they are.
 

ru4r34l

Well-Known Member
Pharaoh has summed it up nicely, and here is a good read from the good folks at beyond prohibition - whyprohibition.ca

The proposed changes (Health Canada Link) include:


  • Eliminating personal production licences, ending legal personal home marijuana grows altogether
  • Eliminating patient identification cards, putting patients at risk of police action
  • Building a system of private for-profit marijuana growers and sellers who would provide to all patients in Canada, severely limiting the range of quality strains of medicine
  • Continuing the unconstitutional "doctors as gatekeepers" system
  • Failing to address the many compassion clubs and medical marijuana dispensaries currently open across Canada

All Canadians should SIGN THE PETITION fpr these proposed changes.

Below quote from torontohemp.com, Poster: Dman
Dman - THC said:
Health Canada has set its deadline to be out of the MMAR biz by June 2014!!

I was at the Licenced Commercial Producers (LCP) meeting with Health Canada in Ottawa last week. The purpose of the meeting was to outline the new regs for obtaining a LCP license under the proposed changes to the MMAR system. The licenses will be granted only to any Canadian owned companies who meet the min requirments for obtaining a license. The new proposed Reg's will be posted in the Canada Gazette as a "draft proposal" around Nov 2012. At this time, there will be another round of email "consultations" like the last round (45-75 days). If no changes are needed, then the draft Reg's will be written into law, and re-released to the Canada Gazette in early 2013. HC hopes to be recieving applications for LCP's by June 2013. If applicants are successful, the LCP's will have approx 1 year to have their facilities fully operational with "tested" product ready to go by Jan 2014. HC still has issues to deal with regarding the Canadian Medical Association and getting doctors educated and on-board with the new prescription model. They also still need to nail down how Law Enforcement is going to know your legal to pocess LCP MMJ. Regardeless of the challeges that HC has before them with doctors and Law Enforcement, the 2014 deadline is the goal the have set to shut down the current MMAR program.
For those not wanting to read the complete article from whyprohibition.ca below (formatted from it's original struture) is the snippet for the proposed changes (Full Article)

whyprohibition.ca said:
THE PROPOSED CHANGES

Health Canada proposes changes in two areas: physician patient interaction and dried cannabis production and distribution. The specific proposals, along with the Foundation's comment and suggestions, appear below.

A. Physician-Patient Interaction - Health Canada proposes the following changes:

1. Health Canada maintains that the determination as to whether the use of marihuana for medical purposes is appropriate for a particular individual is best made through a discussion with their physician. In this regard, Health Canada is proposing to eliminate the categories of conditions or symptoms for which an individual may possess marihuana for medical purposes under the MMAR.

2. Individuals would continue to be required to consult a physician to obtain access to marihuana for medical purposes. Since categories would be eliminated, there would no longer be a requirement for some individuals to obtain the support of a specialist in addition to their primary care physician in order to access marihuana for medical purposes.
The Foundation agrees that eliminating the categories of conditions or symptoms is a necessary improvement, as is removal of any requirement that a specialist be consulted. Both changes are improvements and would be consistent with working toward remedying the issues raised by the Court's findings in Mernagh. It is clear, however, that these changes do not go far enough. Physicians have essentially boycotted the current MMAR scheme and continuing to require that they be the sole gatekeepers to legal protection and lawful access to cannabis will result in continued serious violations of the Charter rights of patients. The categories of health care professionals able to permit lawful access to cannabis must be expanded to, at minimum, to any practitioner currently regulated by a provincial Act including, for example, Naturopathic Physicians, Doctors of Traditional Chinese Medicine and Nurse Practitioners. These practitioners, in many provinces, have the ability to provide lawful access to medicines with significantly greater risk profiles than cannabis. In addition, Naturopathic Physician and Doctors of Traditional Chinese Medicine have the benefit of familiarity with whole plant medicines generally and cannabis specifically. Expanding the gatekeeper role is consistent with evidence-based policy making and the requirements of the Charter.

3. The existing medical declaration would be replaced by a new document provided by the physician to the individual. Health Canada will consult the medical community on the form this document will take.

4. Individuals would no longer be required to submit information to Health Canada to be authorized to possess dried marihuana. Instead, they would submit their physician's document directly to a licensed commercial producer.
The Foundation agrees that the current declarations create a barrier to access and are in need of improvement. In addition, the Foundation welcomes the move toward a system of access to cannabis that closely mirrors that used by existing, and currently unlawful, dispensaries and compassion clubs. These community-based organizations have distributed cannabis to medical consumers for more than a decade by, essentially, requiring only that consumers provide applications forms from their health care practitioner. The Foundation is, however, dismayed that the proposed improvements do not contemplate licensing the very organizations that already comport with the procedure being proposed as the future of the government's program. This concern is more fully discussed in the production and distribution section below.

5. Health Canada will establish an Expert Advisory Committee to improve physician access to comprehensive, accurate and up-to-date information on the use of marihuana for medical purposes, thereby facilitating informed decision-making with respect to the use of marihuana for medical purposes.

6. Health Canada would work with the medical community, their provincial/territorial licensing authorities and their associations on the proposed improvements to the program.
The Foundation agrees that Health Canada must work toward proving physicians with accurate information about the use of medicinal cannabis. There must be a commitment to accuracy and rigor in evaluating the information being provided, a challenge that will be particularly onerous given the highly politically charged climate surrounding cannabis policy generally. The Foundation is deeply concerned that the language chosen to provide the social context for Health Canada's proposals (keeping "children and families" safe) does not foreshadow a commitment to sound evidence-based policy making.

B. Dried Marihuana Production and Distribution

1. Under the proposed redesigned program, Health Canada would no longer enter into a contract with a commercial entity to supply and distribute dried marihuana and marihuana seeds.

2. The only legal source of dried marihuana would be commercial producers, who would be licensed by Health Canada to produce and distribute dried marihuana. Individuals would purchase their supply of dried marihuana from one of these licensed commercial producers.

3. Personal and designated production would be phased out.

4. In order to be licensed by Health Canada, licensed commercial producers would have to demonstrate compliance with requirements related to, for example, product quality, personnel, record-keeping, safety and security, disposal and reporting, as set out in new proposed regulations. These controls would aim to ensure the quality of the product being purchased by program participants, as well as the security of production sites.

5. Health Canada would establish a comprehensive compliance and enforcement regime for licensed commercial producers, centered on regular audits and inspections.

6. Licensed commercial producers would be required to comply with specific product labelling and packaging requirements. The label and/or the package itself could be one way by which a program participant could demonstrate that their supply of marihuana is legal.

7. Licensed commercial producers would only be permitted to produce marihuana indoors.

8. Licensed commercial producers would be able to produce any strain(s) of marihuana, thus giving individuals greater choice as to which strain(s) they wish to use.

9. Licensed commercial producers would set the price for marihuana for medical purpose.

10. Licensed commercial producers would only be able to send the dried marihuana they cultivate to individuals by registered mail or bonded courier.
The Foundation believes that the proposed future production and distribution system would work well as an adjunct to the existing regime of personal and designated production. It is critical, however, that personal and caregiver designated production be preserved. Patients and producers have spent years, and significant funds, developing genetic lines to treat their specific ailments. In addition, personal and caregiver production is often the most cost effective, and for some the only economically viable, means of accessing cannabis. Removal of this right is likely to be found to violate the Charter and, more importantly, will certainly limit rather than improve access to a safe and effective supply of medicinal cannabis. It is of paramount importance that personal and caregiver production be retained in any future iteration of the medicinal cannabis access program.
The Foundation is also concerned that the proposals fail to address the use of cannabis in a variety of modes of ingestion including by way of resin, edibles, tinctures, salves, balms and other means of obtaining therapeutic benefit. As noted above, the recognition that patients require a variety of strains is welcome but it remains unclear how licensed producers will obtain those genetics. Moreover, the proposal fails to recognize the need to capitalize upon the knowledge and experience of the existing network of unlicensed suppliers represented by dispensaries and their current producers.


The proposal also contemplates only the delivery of cannabis by courier or mail. Many persons, particularly those living on disability or social assistance, have no fixed address and are unable to receive mail or delivery by courier. Many prefer to have the ability to view and smell the dried cannabis before purchasing it. And, most importantly, many patients appreciate the social capital gained by obtaining cannabis at a community-based dispensary. At minimum, Health Canada must include an option for regulating community-based dispensaries that can, and do, provide patients with more than just a supply of medicine. The existing network of unlicensed suppliers represented by dispensaries and compassion clubs provide members with significant social capital including supportive environments, knowledge about the medicine and particular strain/symptom pairings and the proper use of cannabis and cannabis byproducts.

The proposal is also vague about the standards to which producers will be held. The Foundation urges Health Canada to implement evidence-based requirements rather than overly onerous rules that will prevent most producers from obtaining licenses. There is, for example, no evidentiary basis for requiring only indoor production. Outdoor production can be cost-effective and produce an end product with compositions of therapeutic compounds that are not present in strictly indoor production.

As the Courts have held in relation to the Supply Issue, a system of arbitrary rules that creates barriers to access will be found to violate the Charter. The Foundation urges Health Canada to rethink its proposals. It is concerned that the proposed access scheme will continue to fail to meet the needs of critically and chronically ill Canadians.
regards,
 

Sir.Ganga

New Member
I will never stop growing my own meds! I have strains that no one else will ever be able to duplicate. This is my perscription, the government has no legal right to mess with that, they set the presedense when they licensed me. Payments have already started towards my lawyer for this very reason.

They may convict me of cultivation if and when this all comes to pass and I may go to jail but that cell better have a grow room in it, cause after a real laywer goes through this mess I will own the jail!

Human rights trump any laws made in this country by any government. The wheels turn slowly but they are round, so we can bet the farm, all of us are positioned correctly and if anyone has exemptions...it wil be the legal cardholders.

IMO and I hope I have the right representation.
 

ru4r34l

Well-Known Member
No precedent has been set because they gave you a YEAR license.

If you are licsened you have allready sucummbed to there laws, when they change them they EXPECT you to honour them as you have in the past, and they will remind you it is a YEARLY license that they have evry right to revoke.

Your argument in court will be: "Well judge the government gave me a growing license for my medicine" and the judge will simply ask you "Sir then why did you not stop growing when they revoked your license?" and "Your medicine is available for purchase from <insert organized crime group here>..."

Case closed..

I suggest kepping your numbers below 5 and hang a PC and I &#9829; Harper sign on the front walk will be your best defense, stop paying your lawyer; when you need him he will be there (they love money) only a class action lawsuit will help us in the end.

regards,
 

Sir.Ganga

New Member
Class action BHAAA...It will not get that far! Sorry you miss the point...it has nothing to do with the paperwork at all, its the perscription they allowed that trips the whole process up. They classified it as a perscription, I didn't.

As for your argument about court, There is no <insert organized crime group here> anywhere in the WORLD that can produce the medication in the EXACT formula I require.

There's the problem, most people don't have a clue of their right as a Canadian citizens and before actually being informed, they tuck their tail, whine and bitch then give up.

WHEN I get busted and it will happen...not only will I not be jailed, the case will not last past the opening statements and I will be at home growing again before they can figure out what happened!
 

ru4r34l

Well-Known Member
I hope you are right, I have fought long enough, and forced to move on to continue fighting.

regards,
 

Sir.Ganga

New Member
Well...I hope Im right too? Its all speculation at this point really isn't it? You can talk to all the laywers, read everything possible and still be broad sided.

It really is a sorry situation for sure!
 
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