Will You Take The Vaccine?

Are you going to take the corona virus vaccine?

  • No.

  • Yes.

Results are only viewable after voting.
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
DurumGallico said:
The only reason why vaccination rate is so high is because of restrictive laws, and not a need for the 73% of vaccinated. I know way more people who did it under constraint, and only to get access to public transport doing sport drink a beer to the bar etc. than for protecting themselves against hospitalization and death.
Also this rate will decrease with new shots, a lot of people are complaining about third shot, even not speaking about fourth or fifth.
There's at least a good thing in this, and something i never refuted, yes old and weak people have a really nice access to vaccines. But it still has nothing to do with restrictive laws.

I consider injecting at least three times, something that i don't need considering my age and good health is nonsense. Of course there's exceptions and i might get a severe form, but the chance is so low considering all factors, yes it's a non sense to get regular shots and accept these restrictive and segregating laws. If people from my age and health, consider they want or need to be vaccinated i'm perfectly fine with that since it's their personal choice. But nobody has to force me getting vaccinated, again considering it's a broken tool to stop transmission, no speaking about ethics moral and financial issues.

Not trying to convince you, just saying not every unvaccinated is a crazy antivax who kills babies and you should respect my choice as much as i respect yours.
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I get the sense that you are not trolling. Just not there with you regarding the cost to society being worth rejecting a safe and effective remedy for reasons that have nothing to do with Coronavirus.
 
Quintana

Quintana

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/10/26/what-the-2020-electorate-looks-like-by-party-race-and-ethnicity-age-education-and-religion/

it looks like democrats and republicans are running close to even numbers. so, say by now 1,000,000 have died to covid. if half of those people were voters, statictically, 400,000 of them would have been republicans and 100,000 would have been democrats, so that's a 300,000 loss for republicans in real time. if those 300,000 dead republican voters were from strategic states, that could cost them severely, the house and senate majorities they want and need so badly may evaporate, and they may lose enough seats that we can finally kick sinema and manchin to the curb and walk over their political corpses on the way to the promised land, halleluah...
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Exactly. Cutting off their noses to spite their faces, right?!
 
zeddd

zeddd

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I get the sense that you are not trolling. Just not there with you regarding the cost to society being worth rejecting a safe and effective remedy for reasons that have nothing to do with Coronavirus.
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What do you think of the hospital consultant who told Javid, U.K. Secretary of State for health, that he was not vaccinated and would refuse covid jabs as he had recently had covid19 and therefore had antibodies. He also works in covid itu. The recent research I posted would support him but he will lose his job when they mandate for nhs workers
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
zeddd said:
What do you think of the hospital consultant who told Javid, U.K. Secretary of State for health, that he was not vaccinated and would refuse covid jabs as he had recently had covid19 and therefore had antibodies. He also works in covid itu. The recent research I posted would support him but he will lose his job when they mandate for nhs workers
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i think healthcare workers should be vaccinated and boosted on a regular schedule until this shit blows over, unless and until new data confirms that there is no point in it, and i haven't seen that data yet, but then again, i support hogtying the unvaccinated and giving them the vaccine, fuck them and their choice, it's not a fucking personal choice when it effects everyone you come in contact with
 
subwax

subwax

Well-Known Member
I guess there will be people who are prone to subscribe to conspiracy theories more than the rest of us. My major issue is that their stand is to the detriment of the rest of us. It's such a selfish thing to do, and the more I read about anti-vaxxers, the more I see that it is a selfish viewpoint, without due consideration for anyone else.

Our government here have not helped matters in the slightest - its been, and continues to be, a complete and utter shambles. They couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery! They're fining others that broke the lock-down rules, yet were having parties at #10, while the rest of the country suffered.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
zeddd said:
What do you think of the hospital consultant who told Javid, U.K. Secretary of State for health, that he was not vaccinated and would refuse covid jabs as he had recently had covid19 and therefore had antibodies. He also works in covid itu. The recent research I posted would support him but he will lose his job when they mandate for nhs workers
Click to expand...
I think there is good evidence that a person who recovers from coronavirus infection is probably as protected from reinfection as someone who is vaccinated. Maybe better. But there is no evidence that immunity lasts longer than the protection a vaccine gives, is there? Doesn't it matter which variant the person acquired immunity from? In about 6 months, an unvaccinated person will be due for their next infection. How does one manage that?

From a practical view, how does a large enterprise such as the NHS administer a requirement to work using a hybrid vaccination/infection-induced immunity policy? The purpose of the NHS is to provide health care to the public. I'm speculating that the NHS is requiring that workers be vaccinated because they don't know how to provide a safe workplace if they don't make that requirement. In other words, they are lazy and cheap. Then again, managing the workforce's antibody titer levels, tracking which variant a worker has been exposed to and how long ago is not what I want my healthcare system to be best at. I'd rather they be best at providing affordable high quality healthcare.

As I said, I'm not a medical professional. I go to experts on the subject for guidance.

This is what the CDC says about

Infection-induced immunity versus vaccine-induced immunity
Because some people with COVID-19 can have very mild symptoms, some may see natural infection as preferable to receiving the COVID-19 vaccine. Some people may be concerned that getting a COVID-19 vaccine could make them sicker if they do get COVID-19.

Key Points
  • COVID-19 can cause severe illness or death, and we can’t reliably predict who will have mild or severe illness. You can also spread COVID-19 to others, including family. And some people continue to have long-term health issues after COVID-19 infection.
  • Getting COVID-19 may offer some natural protection, known as immunity. Current evidence suggests that reinfection with the virus that causes COVID-19 is uncommon in the 90 days after initial infection. However, experts don’t know for sure how long this protection lasts, and the risk of severe illness and death from COVID-19 far outweighs any benefits of natural immunity.
  • Currently available vaccines have been tested in large clinical trials and FDA has determined that they are safe and effective.
    • The known and potential benefits of a COVID-19 vaccine must outweigh the known and potential risks of the vaccine for use under what is known as an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA). Watch a video on what an EUA is.
  • Millions of Americans have already been vaccinated and these vaccines are undergoing the most intensive safety monitoring in U.S. history. The same vaccines are used globally and the World Health Organization reports that hundreds of millions of vaccinations have been administered.
  • Once you’ve been fully vaccinated, you are able to do some things more safely, including travel.

Per CDC: The vaccines are safe and effective.

I support right to body privacy and oppose government enforced mandate for vaccination. Your body, your choice. I also support the right of employers both public and private to mandate safe and effective vaccination of their workforces. It is their business to decide what's best for them. Their business, their choice.
 
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Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
subwax said:
I guess there will be people who are prone to subscribe to conspiracy theories more than the rest of us. My major issue is that their stand is to the detriment of the rest of us. It's such a selfish thing to do, and the more I read about anti-vaxxers, the more I see that it is a selfish viewpoint, without due consideration for anyone else.

Our government here have not helped matters in the slightest - its been, and continues to be, a complete and utter shambles. They couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery! They're fining others that broke the lock-down rules, yet were having parties at #10, while the rest of the country suffered.
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Perhaps it might be time to move on from point of view that unvaccinated are "selfish ..., without due consideration for anyone else.". That was probably true before Omicron. A few weeks after vaccination, protection from Omicron infection begins to drop below 50% and recedes to almost nothing within 4 months. So, I don't think we can say any more that unvaccinated people put others at risk. A high quality mask along with other sensible best practices works better than vaccination for long term protection against infection. Not wearing a mask when indoors in a public space is selfish, IMO.

That said, the US is getting clobbered in its healthcare system because too many unvaccinated are clogging up or hospitals, especially ICU beds. Most Covid patients are unvaccinated. For one's own sake, they should get vaccinated.
 
zeddd

zeddd

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I think there is good evidence that a person who recovers from coronavirus infection is probably as protected from reinfection as someone who is vaccinated. Maybe better. But there is no evidence that immunity lasts longer than the protection a vaccine gives, is there? Doesn't it matter which variant the person acquired immunity from? In about 6 months, an unvaccinated person will be due for their next infection. How does one manage that?

From a practical view, how does a large enterprise such as the NHS administer a requirement to work using a hybrid vaccination/infection-induced immunity policy? The purpose of the NHS is to provide health care to the public. I'm speculating that the NHS is requiring that workers be vaccinated because they don't know how to provide a safe workplace if they don't make that requirement. In other words, they are lazy and cheap. Then again, managing the workforce's antibody titer levels, tracking which variant a worker has been exposed to and how long ago is not what I want my healthcare system to be best at. I'd rather they be best at providing affordable high quality healthcare.

As I said, I'm not a medical professional. I go to experts on the subject for guidance.

This is what the CDC says about

Infection-induced immunity versus vaccine-induced immunity
Because some people with COVID-19 can have very mild symptoms, some may see natural infection as preferable to receiving the COVID-19 vaccine. Some people may be concerned that getting a COVID-19 vaccine could make them sicker if they do get COVID-19.

Key Points
  • COVID-19 can cause severe illness or death, and we can’t reliably predict who will have mild or severe illness. You can also spread COVID-19 to others, including family. And some people continue to have long-term health issues after COVID-19 infection.
  • Getting COVID-19 may offer some natural protection, known as immunity. Current evidence suggests that reinfection with the virus that causes COVID-19 is uncommon in the 90 days after initial infection. However, experts don’t know for sure how long this protection lasts, and the risk of severe illness and death from COVID-19 far outweighs any benefits of natural immunity.
  • Currently available vaccines have been tested in large clinical trials and FDA has determined that they are safe and effective.
    • The known and potential benefits of a COVID-19 vaccine must outweigh the known and potential risks of the vaccine for use under what is known as an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA). Watch a video on what an EUA is.
  • Millions of Americans have already been vaccinated and these vaccines are undergoing the most intensive safety monitoring in U.S. history. The same vaccines are used globally and the World Health Organization reports that hundreds of millions of vaccinations have been administered.
  • Once you’ve been fully vaccinated, you are able to do some things more safely, including travel.

Per CDC: The vaccines are safe and effective.

I support right to body privacy and oppose government enforced mandate for vaccination. Your body, your choice. I also support the right of employers both public and private to mandate safe and effective vaccination of their workforces. It is their business to decide what's best for them. Their business, their choice.
Click to expand...
It’s a common misconception that you have no immunity once your antibodies subside after 6 months, we have memory cells which can stimulate the immune response to recognised pathogens, there is a slight latency period of about 3 days then full immune response. This results in a mild 3 day illness with little to no sequelae
 
subwax

subwax

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Not wearing a mask when indoors in a public space is selfish, IMO.
Click to expand...
In my experience - the anti-vaxxers are the ones also deciding not to wear masks.

Edit - not all of them, to be correct - most of the ones I know do though.
 
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Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
subwax said:
Inn my experience - the anti-vaxxers are the ones also deciding not to wear masks.

Edit - not all of them, to be correct - most of the ones I know do though.
Click to expand...
There is overlap between the two to be sure. But they aren't one and the same. Why conflate the two?
 
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