Will You Take The Vaccine?

Are you going to take the corona virus vaccine?

  • No.

  • Yes.


Results are only viewable after voting.

zeddd

Well-Known Member
To you - probably, but I'm OK with that, based on the fact that there is nothing I can do about that.

Out of curiosity - where do you stand on the matter?
I stand on the side of emerging science, I’m a healthcare professional with direct exposure to patients. The science for omicron is clear you have some protection from 3 shots, some protection from previous infection either strongly for 4 months or adequately in terms of severity of morbidity extending beyond 6 months. There isn’t a clear scientific basis to penalise people who are unvaccinated but who have had covid. The real problem with omicron is for those who have had no shots or 2 shots and no previous exposure to covid, they are going to fill the wards with ARDS. That’s s what the recent research has demonstrated.
 

subwax

Well-Known Member
Have you noticed a decrease in numbers recently?

Have you been vaccinated?

In the interest of openness - I have had all 3 jabs.
 

subwax

Well-Known Member
Not in terms of numbers but morbidity is moderated because of the population’s exposure to previous variants plus vaccine effects, imo
I did see on the news tonight that they're talking about the numbers coming down - I cannot wait for all this to be a distant memory.

Chances of another strain / variant, in your professional opinion?
 

zeddd

Well-Known Member
I did see on the news tonight that they're talking about the numbers coming down - I cannot wait for all this to be a distant memory.

Chances of another strain / variant, in your professional opinion?
The U.K. government are letting omicron rip, this will kill a few but most will get better immunity to further iterations of this virus. It’s is currently unrecognisable from the alpha variant which is the normal evolution of a virus. Yes there will be more strains as there are with influenza but we should all have a much milder disease as we do with flu. I see an end to the pandemic response within the next few months. (My only caveat being I hope it doesn’t mutate to a haemorrhagic disease).
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
It’s a common misconception that you have no immunity once your antibodies subside after 6 months, we have memory cells which can stimulate the immune response to recognised pathogens, there is a slight latency period of about 3 days then full immune response. This results in a mild 3 day illness with little to no sequelae
Yes, it's true that after a person recovers from the first infection, the second one us most often milder. From what I've read on the subject, it's too early to tell if long covid is less likely from Omicron too. I've seen opinions fall either way.



Monica Gandhi, MD, MPH, an infectious disease expert and a professor at the University of California, San Francisco, has been saying throughout the pandemic that COVID-19 will devolve into a seasonal nuisance like the common cold and influenza. She told ICT® in a Q&A in September that “if you study the history of infectious diseases … there has not been a single infection that we have not been able to get through if they don’t infect the immune system or if we have an adequate vaccine. If you develop an effective vaccine for an infection, even in the face of vaccine hesitancy, lack of vaccine uptake, you are going to get there because immunity is the only thing that gets you through the pandemic.”

On the other hand, some health care professionals warn that the system should brace itself for an onslaught of long COVID cases in February, after the current Omicron surge subsides, as many experts predict.

Bruce Patterson, MD, who works for the Chronic COVID Treatment Center, says it is too soon to determine whether Omicron can cause long COVID, but believes it will follow the same route as Delta in that regard.

Kavanagh writes for ICT® that “much of the abandonment of public health measures has been spurred by a massive disinformation campaign which has successfully convinced a relatively large portion of our population that as long as one lives through COVID-19 all will be well. The young and healthy have especially embraced this narrative.”

It is a false narrative, Kavanagh warns, because “the premise that mild infections do not carry significant risks is false. In part this belief is driven by those who have not died from COVID-19 being counted as ‘recovered’ as opposed to ‘survived’. SARS-CoV-2 causes a system infection and is commonly detected in the heart and brain, exemplified by the loss of smell from brain tissue destruction and loss of cardiac function from myocarditis. Even those who develop ‘mild’ COVID-19 can develop long COVID-19 which in many cases lasts for a year or longer.”


That was published four days ago. So, I don't know what to believe regarding long covid and Omicron right now. I do know that long covid sucks. Maybe we'll know more in a few months. I'm living a secluded life until we know more on this subject and I feel the risk is acceptable. That is not possible for everyone and I'm not judging anybody if they get infected regardless of vaccinatoin status. These are hard times and most are doing what they think is best for them.
 

subwax

Well-Known Member
The U.K. government are letting omicron rip, this will kill a few but most will get better immunity to further iterations of this virus. It’s is currently unrecognisable from the alpha variant which is the normal evolution of a virus. Yes there will be more strains as there are with influenza but we should all have a much milder disease as we do with flu. I see an end to the pandemic response within the next few months. (My only caveat being I hope it doesn’t mutate to a haemorrhagic disease).
Interesting - thanks for your input.
 

subwax

Well-Known Member
It is a false narrative, Kavanagh warns, because “the premise that mild infections do not carry significant risks is false. In part this belief is driven by those who have not died from COVID-19 being counted as ‘recovered’ as opposed to ‘survived’. SARS-CoV-2 causes a system infection and is commonly detected in the heart and brain, exemplified by the loss of smell from brain tissue destruction and loss of cardiac function from myocarditis. Even those who develop ‘mild’ COVID-19 can develop long COVID-19 which in many cases lasts for a year or longer.”
A colleague of mine went to bed feeling ill on the 20th of December - he got out of bed on the 4th of Jan. Sounds like he had an absolute nightmare.

He has a friend who has had Long COVID for around 2 years now - it has completely changed his life. His friend was an active person prior, but is almost immobile now.
 

zeddd

Well-Known Member
Yes, it's true that after a person recovers from the first infection, the second one us most often milder. From what I've read on the subject, it's too early to tell if long covid is less likely from Omicron too. I've seen opinions fall either way.



Monica Gandhi, MD, MPH, an infectious disease expert and a professor at the University of California, San Francisco, has been saying throughout the pandemic that COVID-19 will devolve into a seasonal nuisance like the common cold and influenza. She told ICT® in a Q&A in September that “if you study the history of infectious diseases … there has not been a single infection that we have not been able to get through if they don’t infect the immune system or if we have an adequate vaccine. If you develop an effective vaccine for an infection, even in the face of vaccine hesitancy, lack of vaccine uptake, you are going to get there because immunity is the only thing that gets you through the pandemic.”

On the other hand, some health care professionals warn that the system should brace itself for an onslaught of long COVID cases in February, after the current Omicron surge subsides, as many experts predict.

Bruce Patterson, MD, who works for the Chronic COVID Treatment Center, says it is too soon to determine whether Omicron can cause long COVID, but believes it will follow the same route as Delta in that regard.

Kavanagh writes for ICT® that “much of the abandonment of public health measures has been spurred by a massive disinformation campaign which has successfully convinced a relatively large portion of our population that as long as one lives through COVID-19 all will be well. The young and healthy have especially embraced this narrative.”

It is a false narrative, Kavanagh warns, because “the premise that mild infections do not carry significant risks is false. In part this belief is driven by those who have not died from COVID-19 being counted as ‘recovered’ as opposed to ‘survived’. SARS-CoV-2 causes a system infection and is commonly detected in the heart and brain, exemplified by the loss of smell from brain tissue destruction and loss of cardiac function from myocarditis. Even those who develop ‘mild’ COVID-19 can develop long COVID-19 which in many cases lasts for a year or longer.”


That was published four days ago. So, I don't know what to believe regarding long covid and Omicron right now. I do know that long covid sucks. Maybe we'll know more in a few months. I'm living a secluded life until we know more on this subject and I feel the risk is acceptable. That is not possible for everyone and I'm not judging anybody if they get infected regardless of vaccinatoin status. These are hard times and most are doing what they think is best for them.
Long covid should be possible from all strains but as population immunity increases, post viral long term effects should follow the normal pattern and decrease in incidence
 
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Fogdog

Well-Known Member
A colleague of mine went to bed feeling ill on the 20th of December - he got out of bed on the 4th of Jan. Sounds like he had an absolute nightmare.

He has a friend who has had Long COVID for around 2 years now - it has completely changed his life. His friend was an active person prior, but is almost immobile now.
I'm sorry for you friends loss. We have a neighbor who HAD been looking forward to a long and active retirement until he came down with Covid and then long Covid.

The U.K. government are letting omicron rip, this will kill a few but most will get better immunity to further iterations of this virus. It’s is currently unrecognisable from the alpha variant which is the normal evolution of a virus. Yes there will be more strains as there are with influenza but we should all have a much milder disease as we do with flu. I see an end to the pandemic response within the next few months. (My only caveat being I hope it doesn’t mutate to a haemorrhagic disease).
^^Good god, let's hope that doesn't happen


This is what makes me nervous about being blithe about Omicron because it seems to be less severe in terms of acute respiratory effects:

1642279441168.png

20% of patients who were asymptomatic came down with long Covid. This was long before Omicron was born but it tells me me that one doesn't necessarily follow the other. Less severe infection does not mean less risk of long covid. Not unless one wants to count a 4% difference as significant.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Long covid should be possible from all strains but as population immunity increases post viral long term effects should follow the normal pattern and decrease in incidence
OK Doc,

I trust you and I do not think you are wrong. But I'm staying home most of the time for now. In a couple of months, I'll put my head out the window to see what the weather looks like.
 

zeddd

Well-Known Member
A colleague of mine went to bed feeling ill on the 20th of December - he got out of bed on the 4th of Jan. Sounds like he had an absolute nightmare.

He has a friend who has had Long COVID for around 2 years now - it has completely changed his life. His friend was an active person prior, but is almost immobile now.
That’s sad to read, I’ve heard many similar stories. I hope he improves soon
 

zeddd

Well-Known Member
OK Doc,

I trust you and I do not think you are wrong. But I'm staying home most of the time for now. In a couple of months, I'll put my head out the window to see what the weather looks like.
You live in a state the size of the U.K. with 1/80 th the population (?) so you can avoid it more than most, I found good Pinot noir helped with covid recovery so you will be fine.
 

zeddd

Well-Known Member
Yes, it's true that after a person recovers from the first infection, the second one us most often milder. From what I've read on the subject, it's too early to tell if long covid is less likely from Omicron too. I've seen opinions fall either way.



Monica Gandhi, MD, MPH, an infectious disease expert and a professor at the University of California, San Francisco, has been saying throughout the pandemic that COVID-19 will devolve into a seasonal nuisance like the common cold and influenza. She told ICT® in a Q&A in September that “if you study the history of infectious diseases … there has not been a single infection that we have not been able to get through if they don’t infect the immune system or if we have an adequate vaccine. If you develop an effective vaccine for an infection, even in the face of vaccine hesitancy, lack of vaccine uptake, you are going to get there because immunity is the only thing that gets you through the pandemic.”

On the other hand, some health care professionals warn that the system should brace itself for an onslaught of long COVID cases in February, after the current Omicron surge subsides, as many experts predict.

Bruce Patterson, MD, who works for the Chronic COVID Treatment Center, says it is too soon to determine whether Omicron can cause long COVID, but believes it will follow the same route as Delta in that regard.

Kavanagh writes for ICT® that “much of the abandonment of public health measures has been spurred by a massive disinformation campaign which has successfully convinced a relatively large portion of our population that as long as one lives through COVID-19 all will be well. The young and healthy have especially embraced this narrative.”

It is a false narrative, Kavanagh warns, because “the premise that mild infections do not carry significant risks is false. In part this belief is driven by those who have not died from COVID-19 being counted as ‘recovered’ as opposed to ‘survived’. SARS-CoV-2 causes a system infection and is commonly detected in the heart and brain, exemplified by the loss of smell from brain tissue destruction and loss of cardiac function from myocarditis. Even those who develop ‘mild’ COVID-19 can develop long COVID-19 which in many cases lasts for a year or longer.”


That was published four days ago. So, I don't know what to believe regarding long covid and Omicron right now. I do know that long covid sucks. Maybe we'll know more in a few months. I'm living a secluded life until we know more on this subject and I feel the risk is acceptable. That is not possible for everyone and I'm not judging anybody if they get infected regardless of vaccinatoin status. These are hard times and most are doing what they think is best for them.
Monica Ghandhi is a professor of infectious diseases, an academic doctor with no declared or revealed bias, Dr Patterson is paid for treating patients with long covid. Kavannah has a bias against the unvaccinated because they delayed his cancer treatment, according to him.
What percentage weight do you give to each person’s opinion as I’m quite sure it’s not equivalent?
 
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Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Monica Ghandhi is a professor of infectious diseases, an academic doctor with no declared or revealed bias, Dr Patterson is paid for treating patients with long covid. Kavannah has a bias against the unvaccinated because they delayed his cancer treatment, according to him.
What percentage weight do you give to each person’s opinion as I’m quite sure it’s not equivalent?
The problem with using the internet to "do your own research" is one can always find articles to confirm one's bias regardless whether or not one's belief has any validity. So, I should probably not have posted that article. It confirmed my bias. What can I say? I'm human.

But,

I didn't see anything in any of those statements that raised flags of bias or deceptive wording. The statements seemed to me to be fairly carefully worded. Nothing incendiary or appealing to emotion. Did you see anything to disagree with in those statements that I posted?
 

injinji

Well-Known Member
I've had both initial vaccines but haven't had the booster yet. Meanwhile I've had covid twice, once in July and again in October. I still have mild symptoms. Wondering if taking the booster is worth it, since I should already have a lot of antibodies built up. I'm 66 but in great health and good physical condition. No meds but the weed.
Hey lady. Good to see you back around. Sorry to hear you've had the Rona, but glad you overed it.

Yes, get the booster when enough time has past. The best antibodies are from having the virus and then the booster.

How did that Sandhill turn out for you? Did you run any of the others?
 

injinji

Well-Known Member
Situation in US with kids is special, no other country has this kind of rate, and is primarly due to obesity amongst children we don't find anywhere else.
In my country i'm not killing little children by not being vaccinated, so stop your flow of childish insults against me, thanks

*And you're out of point since we were talking about adults.
100% true about the fat kids. Just look at how fat the kids are in South Africa, the first country to let us know about the increase in childhood cases from Omicron.
 
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