Bush Gets Away with Lies, Lies and More Lies in History-Illiterate America

medicineman · Aug 31, 2007

krime13 said:
this goes out to all the guys that say that questioning the current administration is unpatriotic...A true patriot will allways question those in command for the best interests of this country, somehow I dont consider suspension of constitutional ammendments and waging wars for personal profit in our best interest...I love this country and the flag and constitution and that is why I am speaking out against the president and his administration, they have created this clusterfuck and we are paing for it in dollars and in blood...

Good post Krime. It makes me wonder if we're on the same planet as VI and his cohorts that seem to think that bush and his regime are doing the right thing. Geeze are these people that fucked in the Head? This administration (regime) is the most fucked I've seen in my 66 years on the planet, and I hope it is the last fucked one We see for a long time. The next administration will have a huge cleanup of Bush's fuckups., no matter what party they are, unless Juliani gets in, (Dread), then it's Bush on steroids.

krime13 · Aug 31, 2007

I aggree completly, Giulliany is like Bush with brains lol.

Chrisuperfly · Aug 31, 2007

As an Kosovo/Afghanistan/Iraq/every place in between veteran, I support whole heartedly every operation I was a part of and everything I did while in the military. I enlisted in the Marine Corps for many reasons, to be a part of something greater than myself among other things. It was my choice to enlist, even my recruiter told me, "Look our country averages a conflict which the Marines are utilized about once every 3 years, average enlistment is 4 years, do the math". I can understand the thinking of some Vietnam Era veterans who have a lot of hate and discontent toward the government and the military, to an extent. I find the whole argument of the government forcing the military(soldiers) to do things they don't want to do absolutely rediculous. Our military is comprised of volunteers. Granted this was not the case in Vietnam which is why I sympathyze with Vietnam Era vets that were drafted. And those vets that did enlist, fight, come home, and protest, well....all I can do is shrug my shoulders and hope natural selection takes its course because people this stupid shouldnt be alive.

Am I a fan of the Bush administration? Yes and No, some things make sense while other things...I have to shake my head at. Is it a Clusterfuck in Iraq? When I was there it wasnt, maybe things have changed over the past 2 years. I think also the News organizations do a tremendous job at sensationalizing everything and blowing things way out of proportion.

I agree that as an American it is our duty to question our leaders. I have a question to those people that wave the pickett signs, How has the war in Iraq affected you? For the majority of you I would guess it probably hasnt. I live in Washingotn D.C. so I see a lot of these people on an almost daily basis and a lot of them are spoiled little rich kids that wave the signs because they have nothing better to do with their day or are going through some sort of identity crisis because I can guarantee the hardest part of their day is wondering whether or not they will go to class or whether mommy and daddy transfered them some cash so they can put gas in their BMW's.

As far as Bush's fuckups that will have to be fixed by the next administration, this shit started long before Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, etc...

krime13 · Aug 31, 2007

Chrisuperfly said:
As an Kosovo/Afghanistan/Iraq/every place in between veteran, I support whole heartedly every operation I was a part of and everything I did while in the military. I enlisted in the Marine Corps for many reasons, to be a part of something greater than myself among other things. It was my choice to enlist, even my recruiter told me, "Look our country averages a conflict which the Marines are utilized about once every 3 years, average enlistment is 4 years, do the math". I can understand the thinking of some Vietnam Era veterans who have a lot of hate and discontent toward the government and the military, to an extent. I find the whole argument of the government forcing the military(soldiers) to do things they don't want to do absolutely rediculous. Our military is comprised of volunteers. Granted this was not the case in Vietnam which is why I sympathyze with Vietnam Era vets that were drafted. And those vets that did enlist, fight, come home, and protest, well....all I can do is shrug my shoulders and hope natural selection takes its course because people this stupid shouldnt be alive.

Am I a fan of the Bush administration? Yes and No, some things make sense while other things...I have to shake my head at. Is it a Clusterfuck in Iraq? When I was there it wasnt, maybe things have changed over the past 2 years. I think also the News organizations do a tremendous job at sensationalizing everything and blowing things way out of proportion.

I agree that as an American it is our duty to question our leaders. I have a question to those people that wave the pickett signs, How has the war in Iraq affected you? For the majority of you I would guess it probably hasnt. I live in Washingotn D.C. so I see a lot of these people on an almost daily basis and a lot of them are spoiled little rich kids that wave the signs because they have nothing better to do with their day or are going through some sort of identity crisis because I can guarantee the hardest part of their day is wondering whether or not they will go to class or whether mommy and daddy transfered them some cash so they can put gas in their BMW's.

As far as Bush's fuckups that will have to be fixed by the next administration, this shit started long before Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, etc...

Well Chris, first of all I would like to assure you that I'm most definatelly not a rich kid, Christ, I have to work 2 full time jobs just to make the ends meet.What pisses me off is the amount of money current administration spends on this war, money that belong to me and you, not to mention billions of dollars that are handed to Halliburton and other corporations that are still not accounted for.You are right , middle east was always a touchy subject in the US foregn policy, however, can you explain me how the invasion of Iraq helped/benefited an averege hard working american?

medicineman · Aug 31, 2007

Chris says: Am I a fan of the Bush administration? Yes and No, some things make sense while other things...I have to shake my head at. Is it a Clusterfuck in Iraq? When I was there it wasnt, maybe things have changed over the past 2 years. I think also the News organizations do a tremendous job at sensationalizing everything and blowing things way out of proportion.

I will ask you this question: When the sun comes up in Iraq, and a GI gets out of bed to go on IED patrol, do you think he says, " wow another wonderful day in paradise, I'm sure glad I'm here doing my duty". Or do you think he thinks, "will this be the day that I die"? And dreads going out in the streets of Bagdad? I'd bet from my own experience, he thinks the latter.

Chrisuperfly · Aug 31, 2007

I work for a defense contractor so......... but my occupation isnt dictated by whether we are at war or not. Don't get me wrong I see the way a lot of my tax dollars are flushed away on a daily basis and it sickens me. I work pretty damn hard for my salary, and yes I see how this war is fattening the pockets of many a company that isnt doing anything to deserve to contracts they get. I believe this is another showing of the G Dub good 'ol boy club, and I do not support the president on that aspect. I could go deeper in to that topic but, it would change the subject too much.

But, I guess it depends on what your occupation is as to if it is benefiting you or not.

I am all for protest, I love it, its what being an american is all about but, I can't stand protesting of self pity, or disingenuous protesting. Like the kids that protest because they think it will get them laid (hey I like a piece just as much as the next guy but, you get what I am saying) or the former self-enlisted soldier that is protesting the fact he got sent to war, isnt that like jumping into a fire and expecting not to get burnt then getting pissed off when you do?

Chrisuperfly · Aug 31, 2007

medicineman said:
Chris says: Am I a fan of the Bush administration? Yes and No, some things make sense while other things...I have to shake my head at. Is it a Clusterfuck in Iraq? When I was there it wasnt, maybe things have changed over the past 2 years. I think also the News organizations do a tremendous job at sensationalizing everything and blowing things way out of proportion.

I will ask you this question: When the sun comes up in Iraq, and a GI gets out of bed to go on IED patrol, do you think he says, " wow another wonderful day in paradise, I'm sure glad I'm here doing my duty". Or do you think he thinks, "will this be the day that I die"? And dreads going out in the streets of Bagdad? I'd bet from my own experience, he thinks the latter.

From my experience, I certainly didnt wake up and say, I love sweating my balls off hoping that I will still have them at the end of the day and they are not hanging off some insurgents rear view mirror. I never thought about dieing though, I was more afraid of getting my legs blown off and spending the rest of my life in a wheel chair. But, if that would have happened and thank god it didnt I would have nobody to blame but myself. I chose to join the military I accepted the fact that I would probably go to war and could potentially lose my life.

krime13 · Aug 31, 2007

Oh, so your point is war is good cos all those GIs and weapons manifacturers finally got a job to do?

medicineman · Aug 31, 2007

Chrisuperfly said:
From my experience, I certainly didnt wake up and say, I love sweating my balls off hoping that I will still have them at the end of the day and they are not hanging off some insurgents rear view mirror. I never thought about dieing though, I was more afraid of getting my legs blown off and spending the rest of my life in a wheel chair. But, if that would have happened and thank god it didnt I would have nobody to blame but myself. I chose to join the military I accepted the fact that I would probably go to war and could potentially lose my life.

So the fact that these soldiers are dying for the elites and the war profiteers doesn't seem to bother you. The fact that the only reason we are in Iraq is the oil and not all the bullshit about a wanton dictator and WMDs doesn't ring a bell. I take this shit seriously. Another friend just lost his nephew in Iraq yesterday, blown to pieces by an IED, all because Bush-Cheney wanted a war so Haliburton and Big oil could get richer than fuck. Wake the fuck up. This is not about patriotism, it is about money and power.

Chrisuperfly · Aug 31, 2007

krime13 said:
Oh, so your point is war is good cos all those GIs and weapons manifacturers finally got a job to do?

Not at all but, I bought 2 motorcycles with all of the tax free money I made while I was in the military and deployed all over God's green earth. I guess you could call that turning a frown udside down :mrgreen:

. As a Marine though your goal is to be on the tip of the spear where the fight is, thats the difference that I think normal people don't understand.

Didnt WWII deliver us from the great depression? And hold your horses I am not comparing this war to WWII, I am jsut making a small point in regards to war and economy.

I am not a war monger in any sense, war is a terrible thing, shit happens people die, sometimes the good guys sometimes the bad guys.

krime13 · Aug 31, 2007

Chrisuperfly said:
Not at all but, I bought 2 motorcycles with all of the tax free money I made while I was in the military and deployed all over God's green earth. I guess you could call that turning a frown udside down . As a Marine though your goal is to be on the tip of the spear where the fight is, thats the difference that I think normal people don't understand.

Didnt WWII deliver us from the great depression? And hold your horses I am not comparing this war to WWII, I am jsut making a small point in regards to war and economy.

I am not a war monger in any sense, war is a terrible thing, shit happens people die, sometimes the good guys sometimes the bad guys.

Oh yeah, no doubt war IS good for economy, its just seems it only benefits the big buisness, and as far as your bikes, I have no doubt that if you stayed home and worked a trade you could have bought them anyway, Its just it wouldnt be so messy LOL.
My point is that this war IS WRONG, and IMMORAL, (i do not call you immoral, you were sworn in and did what you were told) , but people that waged this war are as crooked as they come and basically trading bglood for oil.

medicineman · Aug 31, 2007

Mr. superfly, it's time for you to be de-programmed, you're out of the military and you are allowed to think for yourself. Do me a favor and besides deposing Sadam (Who BTW kept a lid on the middle east) What have we achieved in Iraq? Please don't throw the right wing rhetorical drivel at me, in your own words please.

FilthyFletch · Sep 1, 2007

Superfly is dead on the money and thats the same thing I hear from very service perosn or vet I know.Are they happy to go look for ieds no but they are proud they have chosen to fight for our country and what it stands for.They enlist freely except a few who think wow free school and I dont have to do anything.Those are dummies.Krime your actually willing to admit your worried about the money for this war ? That is the most selfish thing I have ever heard come out of anyones mouth.The cost to protect and support out troops is a complete non issue that remark sounded like a direct democrate line of self centered shit.Thats the problem with the democratic party its a me me me center party.Lets worry whats good for me not the country as a whole and thats why I have no respect for the democratic party.Superfly I greatly respect your service and the honor you have truely served with.I thankyou from my heart you did that service for all the rest of us so we didnt have too.I owe you we all owe you and all the vets.I buried my fiancees granfather yesterday a Korean veteran.Her biggest concern was to make sure he recieved his miltary cermony which he did and was absolutly beautiful.A full military farewell to a veteran of the airforce.I made a point afterwards to go to the soldiers who did the ceremony to thank them for it and then to shake each hand and express my gratitude to them for serving in our countries armed services.You know what I got in response? They tahnked me for just telling them I apprecited them and thier service.2 had just returned from Iraq tours and they told me how much it hurt them inside to see the media talk about how its a lost cause and they should give up and come home without a clear cut victory.How to them it meant every soldier who died including thier friends who were killed to have died for absolutly nothing.And I can tell you right here right now as sad as I was for her grandfather I cried right there hearing that from them as we never should hear a single soldier feeel un apprecitaed or dismissed in the public for doing our countires service.It hurt bad to hear it and it hurts now to be talking about it.My finacees grandfather as recent as last week before his passing was not a Bush fan which was fine but he also was so disappointed to hear people and the media even consider saying these soldiers deaths should just be chalked up for no reason and a withdraw be made without the decisive victory.Yes I believe we have the right to disagree with our country and yes you dont have to follow a herd but you do have the duty for the opportunity to live in this country to have to go and defend those rights from whoever or whatever might threaten them.Even if that means fighting in Iraq to break up organizes terroist organizations,even if that means fighting the guerillas in Afghanistan to hunt for terro organiers like Bin Laden to prevent a 9-11 type attack. Lives will be lost and maybe your one who believes well they arent over here so why are we over there making this war and the answer is simply they came over here..they did harm us... they do plan to do it again..and now they will pay as we go out in full force to show them no you will not do this again and if your gonna try our countries finest will lay down and die to prevent you from even getting a chance.A military and country weakened so much by the bafoone Clinton has left us volnurable and now we have begun a long process of rebuilding and new backing for our military we just have to pray we dont fall under another democartic leadership that will stand by worried about money cost given to our defense in order to setup programs for ilegal aliens and people who misuse the genoristy of such programs as welfare.A strong military will keep even those people alive another day.If asked to give my last dollar to help get new guns or flack jackets for our military or to give to a charity to feed a percfectly healthy person who say they cant find a single job you know my troops will have the best protection possible.I will mourn with my fiancee for her grandfather a great man who served for his country as I hope with all hope every soldier comes home as soon as possible, safely, with a confirmed victory and to never again another person who would make them feel the way those soldiers told me they felt the day they came home...

closet.cult · Sep 1, 2007

FilthyFletch said:
And if you follow the democratic or liberal party appearently they have short memories and dont read to many history books. There was this little war known as WW11 maybe ya heard of it.You remember that Hitler guy ? He was pretty bad he did things like make judgement for an elite super human race and to achieve this he practiced this little thing called chemical clensing where he took his own people he picked as non perfect specimens and perfected gas chambers killing 100's of thousand just for practice of his own countryman...wait this kind of sounds familiar ..oh yeah a guy named Saddaam Hussein practiced killing for genocide by gas on his kurdish people killing 100's of thousand which were found in mass graves with the intent to refine the usage for a take over as a single united arab nation known as Iraq.Lets see hitler did some stuff like invading smaller neighboring countries at first building power and money from the piladages.Hmmm that sounds familiar a certain tyrant invades the wealthy oil country of Saudi arabia in an attempt to take control of the oil fields to garner monies for more weapon development for more conquests..hhmmmm interesting isnt it so far...Back in Hitlers days he was allowed to keep doing this killing and taking more countries by force and doing this little thing called genocide of the jewish people.But wait when countries got taken over and the US stayed back saying its not our war the people of France and England cried."Where is America and her power and compasion? Why does she not help us her allies? Why would the United States stand by and watch this evil until its to late..." Guess what we took that stand and saved millions by sacraficing our countries blood and men.Men never forgotten,men who died on foreign soil why to save our banks our cars?? No to do what was right and stop an evil man from being a world emporer.We stood by watching and we could stand by no more as our allies and innocent unknowns died at hitlers hands.Now we have to hear uneducated idiots cry"Why is America in this war? This isn't thier war.Why dont they stay home and mind thier business."You wanna know why? Because if we stood by and allowed Iraq to do what it showed it planned to do and get richer and stronger in the end we would have to fight to save not only others but ourselves from take over or random missle attacks as he got richer and even more powerful.We decided this time instead of watching and waiting for it to get worse we would stand tall and proud and step up this time first and not last. We decided not to wait so it would cost millions of lives.We ended it before it could fester anymore to the point of our allies and self being destroyed by such evil intent and force.People cry we went to wars for WMA's and thier were none. We went to war as stated by our president for 3 reasons..1.The belief based on our assetment Iraq had WMA close to full production.2. Chemical genecide on the kurds..100's of thousands killed for his practice and genocide wants.The graves and bodies found..3.To remove Saddam from power and stop this from further outreaching causing harm to more innocent people for this mans cause.....Not sure where those criers come from but me where I live in America 2 out of 3 aint bad.The WMA are a thing that was to have been found but as it looks were sold at last notice to Iraq allies like Iran as Saddam knew he was done and money in bank for a man on the run is easier to move but the idea must go on.Countries like france stood by Iraq and turned its back on us why? They made millinons violating international embargos of goods and weapons parts secretly to Iraq and how do we know? The paper tracks were found,the evidence seized.Why try to stop a friend from stopping an enemy?? Money the rule of all evil.So to those who dont stand by my country my America which I luv,by the sides of all the soldiers that fight becuase they were ordered to whether they wanted to or not,those who begged for help and we gave it to then turned on us when we asked for thier return help.Fuck them as you are my enemy and I will do my part to make sure you never reap from the blood and sweat of this nation.I give no respect or even an hint of compassion for those.Our President not the most schooled or smooth of word conveance did what he as the leader of the free world was to do and fought to protect us and our world friends and to Mr.Blair I thank you for standing side by side with us and fighting with my country returning the generosity and protection we were able to offer to you in your time of need while amounts of your own people turned on you questioning Englands need to fight.To France and the others god help you if you need to be bailed out ever again....You now say Mr Bush lies?? Does he lie ?or is he trying to show a public who is now so soft and unwilling to remember this history lesson not so long ago fought by thier parents and granparents the reasons he sees us needing to be where we are at the most turbulant time in any recent presidntial administration.Like Bush the man or hate him..He took the stand on our behalf and the worlds and said "We will not be made afraid.You will not bring a world to its knees by terrostic threats.The United States will not stand for it and we will prevail!" If thats what your calling a liar then I wouldn't want it any other way..God Bless America her allies and God bless our president George W. Bush a man who has to walk with giants and handle problems I never could....

this would have been a well defined argument if it wasn't full of bullshit. Sadam was a threat to no one. he is a terrible ruller, terrible soldier, terrible person. but is no threat to the world. I believe you have bought into this administration's lies and propaganda. Didn't the lack of any type of state military and invented WMA's clue you into the lie, dude?

This adminstration invented the threat for the geo-political control of that region of the earth. hummmm? What's in that region?

Because if what you say is true, where's our good, christian morals in removing the truly evil regimes doing true genocide right now in oil-poor africa? a guess a few MILLION people in africa mean less, for some other reason, then the 600,000 in iraq?

wake up, man. this country is asleep, just like this government wants. i had to wake up too. the truth is out there, but it's not on your t.v. news.

clekstro · Sep 1, 2007

FilthyFletch said:
Superfly is dead on the money and thats the same thing I hear from very service perosn or vet I know.Are they happy to go look for ieds no but they are proud they have chosen to fight for our country and what it stands for.They enlist freely except a few who think wow free school and I dont have to do anything.Those are dummies.Krime your actually willing to admit your worried about the money for this war ? That is the most selfish thing I have ever heard come out of anyones mouth.The cost to protect and support out troops is a complete non issue that remark sounded like a direct democrate line of self centered shit.Thats the problem with the democratic party its a me me me center party.Lets worry whats good for me not the country as a whole and thats why I have no respect for the democratic party.Superfly I greatly respect your service and the honor you have truely served with.I thankyou from my heart you did that service for all the rest of us so we didnt have too.I owe you we all owe you and all the vets.I buried my fiancees granfather yesterday a Korean veteran.Her biggest concern was to make sure he recieved his miltary cermony which he did and was absolutly beautiful.A full military farewell to a veteran of the airforce.I made a point afterwards to go to the soldiers who did the ceremony to thank them for it and then to shake each hand and express my gratitude to them for serving in our countries armed services.You know what I got in response? They tahnked me for just telling them I apprecited them and thier service.2 had just returned from Iraq tours and they told me how much it hurt them inside to see the media talk about how its a lost cause and they should give up and come home without a clear cut victory.How to them it meant every soldier who died including thier friends who were killed to have died for absolutly nothing.And I can tell you right here right now as sad as I was for her grandfather I cried right there hearing that from them as we never should hear a single soldier feeel un apprecitaed or dismissed in the public for doing our countires service.It hurt bad to hear it and it hurts now to be talking about it.My finacees grandfather as recent as last week before his passing was not a Bush fan which was fine but he also was so disappointed to hear people and the media even consider saying these soldiers deaths should just be chalked up for no reason and a withdraw be made without the decisive victory.Yes I believe we have the right to disagree with our country and yes you dont have to follow a herd but you do have the duty for the opportunity to live in this country to have to go and defend those rights from whoever or whatever might threaten them.Even if that means fighting in Iraq to break up organizes terroist organizations,even if that means fighting the guerillas in Afghanistan to hunt for terro organiers like Bin Laden to prevent a 9-11 type attack. Lives will be lost and maybe your one who believes well they arent over here so why are we over there making this war and the answer is simply they came over here..they did harm us... they do plan to do it again..and now they will pay as we go out in full force to show them no you will not do this again and if your gonna try our countries finest will lay down and die to prevent you from even getting a chance.A military and country weakened so much by the bafoone Clinton has left us volnurable and now we have begun a long process of rebuilding and new backing for our military we just have to pray we dont fall under another democartic leadership that will stand by worried about money cost given to our defense in order to setup programs for ilegal aliens and people who misuse the genoristy of such programs as welfare.A strong military will keep even those people alive another day.If asked to give my last dollar to help get new guns or flack jackets for our military or to give to a charity to feed a percfectly healthy person who say they cant find a single job you know my troops will have the best protection possible.I will mourn with my fiancee for her grandfather a great man who served for his country as I hope with all hope every soldier comes home as soon as possible, safely, with a confirmed victory and to never again another person who would make them feel the way those soldiers told me they felt the day they came home...

You have got to learn some mother-fucking punctuation. If you want someone to actually have to make an effort to listen to you, then you've succeeded, as reading your posts is frustrating in more than one way.

I don't support imperialism, I don't support a military business that requires war (that's one of the reasons marines get shipped out so often), I don't support mindless shouting (especially if directed by some politician), I don't support killing innocent civilians, or "protecting American interests" when that statement justifies millions of people dying.

I support intelligence and debate. And the debate is like this: you will not ever admit that what happened has been a mistake, and will never take any responsibility for what happens there unless you can make it look like we won, and your political opponents have lost.

And that simply isn't fair, and no one can debate against that. You guys would have to acknowledge point by point our arguments before you go off on some (extremely pathetic) rant that somehow mentions a lot of history but never seems to cite any of it, interpret it.

In short, if we can't debate you, then it means you haven't really said anything worth listening to. You can go call someone else a pussy, because I think it's more important that people carry on an intelligent conversation.

And let's not forget, from my experience in one of the least educated states of this union, 44th in education, Idaho, is one of the largest sources of Iraq troops from the National Guard. Is this a coincidence? They love their flag and their television politicians in Idaho... and they don't like debating, either...
When I tried to discuss this rationally in 2003, the room turned and stared at me, shocked, and some football jock that had recently signed up to go to the Marines called me a traitor. I asked him why we should invade, and he said, "Saddam Hussein is a faggot."

I don't support that sort of thinking. It's sophmoric, frat-boy logic that says I'm right if I yell or intimidate or kick someone's ass. In the real world, where intelligent people discuss things, that kind of an argument doesn't count. And it only counts politically in America because of the combined laziness and stupidity of our country; because it's been made to count by party loyalty and the media presentation of yee-hah politics and logic as something decent and presentable. Shame.

Our veterans may be our "finest," but they're certainly not the finest debaters, or the most intelligent.

medicineman · Sep 1, 2007

Filthy, there you go again with your bushie bullshit. Do I support our troops, Hello, Yeah! Do I support the mission, Hell No. That is the difference right there. It is allright to support the troops and question the mission when the mission is to enrich the elites and war contractors, and to lay the foundation for a US oil takeover of the Iraqi oil reserves. You gotta pull your head out and stop reading those '50's war comics Mr. filthy (name appropriate). Those Commie bastards are everywhere now.

Chrisuperfly · Sep 1, 2007

I can appreciate the fact that people support the troops and not the war, that is of course, everyones right as a human being. Its called free will and its an amazing thing.

I agree with medicine in that the ouster of Sadaam hurt more than it helped. Unfortunately people in many of these types of countries are sheep, and would rather be alive than free. Sadaam basically kept a lid on many of these religious fanatics that are now jockeying for position now that the opportunity presents itself.

I also agree that, in the grander scheme of things we havent achieved much. I think the steps forward that have been made have benefitted the few as suppose to the entire country of Iraq. I have had Iraqi's shake my hand saying thank you when we finished digging a well. Granted this isnt the great achievement that was promised by the government but it is something. I ask you this though if Sadaam was so great why did it take us, outsiders to come in there and do something so mundane? Sadaam was the bad guy, ask any Kurd. He should have been taken care of 17 years ago.

And Krime, your probably right if I would have become an electrician like my old man or gone to work in the steel mill like my brother I would have made a damn site more money than joining the military. Nobody joins the military to get rich, everyones life has a different path and mine deviated from that of my family members.

FilthyFletch · Sep 2, 2007

Well first off I apologize for the incorrect gramatical content as I was not publishing for review or grade but you are correct it is a long run on of a statement. The next point is I have no issue to for you to debate or have your own thoughts my issue is with the lack of respect it shows to openly dismiss these soldiers mission.You ask about or christian moarlaity? Who gives a shit about christian anything or muslim anything religion especially organized religion is the reason war exists and has existed.The fight over who's idealology is the best or correct has led to killing since the begining of time.I just do not see how with such blantant evidnece you can say we should have left harmless Saddam do what he does.I guess I have a little more compassion for life then the others here.He killed 250000 kurds because they defied him and angered him.Is the murder and mass burail of 250000 lives over lookable as medicine seems to say? If so the world is far worse then I thought and I thought it was bad to begin with.The question about the poor in africa well at this point they dont serve a major world threat so we haven't had to stop a military action thats why we have not had to step in on a high priority scale yet.Lets use a comparison related to this type of site. In order to get a full juicy bud that will knock you out you must start from a begining point of a seed correct? That seed gets bigger into a plant that eventually develops small buds, buds you know ill only get bigger and more powerful.How do we know this because it has happened before over and over in history.So does it not make sense that a man who killed 250000 people in 1 stop might be growing getting easier for him to kill didn't we see this in Hitler (don't get your panties in bunch to comparing conflicts just the 2 men)?How many people should be killed or how many borders does a murder ave to conquer before he is considered a threat or evil?I would say 250000 kurds poisoned and thousands of beheadings a good start. Sadaams son had been documented to enjoy starving his dogs for weeks then taking his prisoners stripping them naked covering them with peanut butter and oils then tossing them into a pit with the hunger enraged dogs for fun.Is he not a bad person that should be stopped and was? I dont know maybe that makes me crazy.I was upset about what Micheal Vick did here to dogs but I seem to hear alot of people (coincidently all democrates) that they don't see the big deal as they were just animals not people? That blows my mind right there.I guess that same "well it didn't happen to me so why should I care "attitude is spreading. You say all this stuff was made up by Bush and or government? Come on now you say he's an idiot can an idiot do all this on his own then? I guess maybe alot of people missed the 3 reason that were issued right before we went in.All but the actuall WMD were found but the money they could have ben sold for was recovered and then out of no where Iran steps up taunting and daring the US.Maybe a possible new purchase has given them extra confidence? Is it possible since Iran is an Iraq friend? Maybe? On my personal views do I say Bush's every idea is my idea far from that.Im a moderate conservative and believe both parties lean to much both ways.Dems don't care and hardcore republicans are afraid to change.Im republican but pro choice.Im republican but am for leaglized marijuana sales. I am for immediate deportation of illegals and building a border fence. I believe in the border militia.I have tendencies of both.I do not sway from saying we need a huge strong military like we had before Clinton dismantled it. I do believe we need to rebuild the oil refineries in the US that for some reason Clinton had closed and leveled.This would eleviate the gas prices as we could produce more gas at lower costs.I just can't seem to grasp an idea that Saddam was an ok guy and we had no interest but oil which we get from Saudi fields not Iraqi fields? I might understand if someone can tell me how those 250000 Kurds didn't matter and the open breaking of UN sanctions Iraq agreed to was ok?I assume those who say it was believe in the rule of Anarky and that laws or rules are not needed as humans are perfect loving creatures who do not need restrictions.Explain those things and I guess I will belive it but I gotta see how you rationalize those things as ok???

medicineman · Sep 2, 2007

Filthy, I don't understand your arguement. We knew Sadam was a bad guy, just like we know there are bad guys in other parts of the world that are killing their citizens for political reasons. Get real, we went for the oil and the profits of war, period. The USA is a waring nation. Without wars, the elites cannot make as much money. Starting with the Federal Reserve Bank that finances wars, to the military sub-contractors that are making millions-Billions from Iraq. Without war, the flow of currency stagnates. So as long as we live in an imperial warmongering nation, we will be the most hated nation on earth. Who has been behind 80%+ of all wars since WWII, us, the good old USA. We supply arms and munitions and CIA training and combat help to any army that opposes communism. We were actually very supportive of Sadam at one time. Read the 4 threads about US foriegn intervention on this forum to get a better understanding of how our country operates. As Dubya says: "if you're not with us, you're against us".

krime13 · Sep 4, 2007

Trust me Filthy, if just for a second I thought this war was righteous I would have been fighting by now, however, comperatively Iraq befoure we invaded wasnt quiet so bad as far as human rights are concerned...I mean look at Somalia and Darfur, Millions are slautered still and we are not sending any troops...And do you know who is doing the killing? The same muslim fundamentalists who support alQueada and are helping the terror network to reestablish a foothold in north Africa.However the killings go on completly ignored by current administration...I guess it was more important to remouve one half disarmed dictator who kept the lid on fanatic terrorists and Iran ,than to protect an entire region and millions of people in it from terrorist domination...Just this example alone should prouve to you that this war is not about freedom or democracy or even terrorists, its about oil and oil alone...Just to prouve my point again, I want to remind you that Saddam was hated by both Iran and alQueada and didnt tollerate fundamentalism in his country...And finally I hope you learn how to debate without resorting to name calling, it does not reflect well on your IQ.

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