Chiesel Full LED - First Time Grow

Am I the only one that never has problems with FFOF? I grow my plants from day one in FFOF with no problems. It seems so many people have problems with ffof that I don't even bother admitting I dont have problems. I couldn't imagine that what I'm getting is any different than what everyone else gets.

I'm willing to bet that 85% of people that have problems with ffof is because:
A> They don't mix it with anything else (IE, perlite, vermiculite etc)
B> They gives nutes before 4-6 weeks. (Lets face it, it's hot, Why would anyone gives nutes before 4-6 weeks?) (I dont even use veg nutes)
C> They don't PH their water
D> Any combination of the above.

Anyway, That is my take.

Endur0xX said:

you just gotta wait until they grow healthy leaves before you flip to 12/12, that soil is super hot I have never used it but from looking at your plants I can say that I hate it. Try promix or something else next time, for now I think the best thing for you to do is to let them veg for a while with no nutes and see what happens. Dont need to worry about PH now just use tap water that has sat for 24+hours. At some point the leaves are going to start growing healthy, at which point you can slowly start feeding them. If your grow was 12/12 from seed you would have something to worry about but since you are still in veg, you are fine, make sure you fix the problem before 12/12. Just my opinion good luck buddy

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Excellent advice. I looked at them today and noticed some of the tips are looking a little better though it could be the plant herself speaking I think they'll pull through as I'm following every step to the letter.

Amaximus said:

Am I the only one that never has problems with FFOF? I grow my plants from day one in FFOF with no problems. It seems so many people have problems with ffof that I don't even bother admitting I dont have problems. I couldn't imagine that what I'm getting is any different than what everyone else gets.

I'm willing to bet that 85% of people that have problems with ffof is because:
A> They don't mix it with anything else (IE, perlite, vermiculite etc)
B> They gives nutes before 4-6 weeks. (Lets face it, it's hot, Why would anyone gives nutes before 4-6 weeks?) (I dont even use veg nutes)
C> They don't PH their water
D> Any combination of the above.

Anyway, That is my take.

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i use ffof as my base for super soil with added green sand kelp meal blood meal bone meal bat guano sulfur pellets. all i gotta do is add cal mag and some ff grow big to add a little kick.

GreenSkrillex said:

i use ffof as my base for super soil with added green sand kelp meal blood meal bone meal bat guano sulfur pellets. all i gotta do is add cal mag and some ff grow big to add a little kick.

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This is the first I'm hearing of anyone using ffof as a base for a super soil. Have you done/used this before? I'd be real interested to hear more about your mix and how it has worked for you?

I've seen a ton of people using ffof on the east coast it's about the only decent soil you can find.but i agree with amaximus you need to add to it such as perlite and blood and bone meal touch of lime and some azomite then during bud i feed with guano tea with ewc added as well. happy frog is a little easier on young plants but the o.f. is almost strong enough to finish without any additives.only problems i have had is fungus knats but if your organic you better get used to them little fuker's. Shit i guess greenskillex posted the s.s mix

The girls don't look like they are doing very well... Although it is hard to tell with the magenta led hue and blurry photos...

Does the new growth on all the plants look healthy and I'm just seeing bad stuff from the nute burn or are things still not well?

yep that's some serious nute burn! flush them with ph'd water real good for the next week they might make it.

ThegrowerMOJO said:

yep that's some serious nute burn! flush them with ph'd water real good for the next week they might make it.

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I've never flushed before, these are 3-gallon smart pots. How much water do I need per pot for the flush and is there a technique do I need to put them over a sink etc.? I get the idea but was curious if you had a technique you could lend me.

^^^ Just one of the many reasons why I switched to hydro early on. Once a soil/less medium is out of whack it's very hard to do a rapid flush, and you need to do just that- a rapid flush. Actually, you might be better off starting more seeds, but still try to bring these back to health. It's good to learn from.

I use Air Pots (fast draining) + lava rock (holds a bit of moisture) + a bit of hydroton to cover the top.

Bilgerat said:

I've never flushed before, these are 3-gallon smart pots. How much water do I need per pot for the flush and is there a technique do I need to put them over a sink etc.? I get the idea but was curious if you had a technique you could lend me.

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Your girls are in trouble/might be to far gone............for flushing in soil, double the amount per gallon of soil/medium(3gallons= flush w 6 gallons of water).....BUT you need to find out the ph of your water/tap before doing anything!.....ffof does not kill like this, your watering habits are heavy also, flushing will make it worse right now.....IMO you need to let them get bone dry, find out your water's ph! or buy RO water from the store, and then flush....after keep drying them out between waterings (get a moisture probe from HD or lowes if you need help with it) and don't give them any nutes/additives till early flowering(very low dose of p-k).....If you really want to still spend money to save them give them some of this http://www.usethrive.com/store/PlantThrive/ to help with the toxicity symptons(your water must be chlorine free)............good luck

^You must spread some reputation around before giving it to PSUAGRO again.^

you need to run double the amount of water to the size container .so if 3 gallon pot run 6 gallons of water through them.And petflora not sure i agree with you i ran hydro for years and a simple mistake can ruin an entire crop in hours.Soiul is much more forgiving just not as quick to react.

PSUAGRO. said:

Your girls are in trouble/might be to far gone............for flushing in soil, double the amount per gallon of soil/medium(3gallons= flush w 6 gallons of water).....BUT you need to find out the ph of your water/tap before doing anything!.....ffof does not kill like this, your watering habits are heavy also, flushing will make it worse right now.....IMO you need to let them get bone dry, find out your water's ph! or buy RO water from the store, and then flush....after keep drying them out between waterings (get a moisture probe from HD or lowes if you need help with it) and don't give them any nutes/additives till early flowering(very low dose of p-k).....If you really want to still spend money to save them give them some of this http://www.usethrive.com/store/PlantThrive/ to help with the toxicity symptons(your water must be chlorine free)............good luck

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I was watering once a week (only increased it by 2 days or so hoping it'd dissolve some of the nutrients) 150 ml per 3 gallons and I have been posting my entire watering schedule here on my updates, I waited till the soil was 3 inches bone dry and lifting off every inch of the ends of the pot every time before watering, guess I should've waited till it dried out more till I watered and watered with 50 instead of 150, seems like it may take me awhile to get water measurements...............right.......since.......it seems to be one of the hardest aspects of growing.

After monitoring temps, RH, pH etc. daily, it looks like this grow is on its way to failing due to nute burn. Next grow I will be using a completely different soil. I've flushed them 30 minutes ago with pH'd bottled water (the "Natural Mountain Spring" water tested with a pH of 7.5 so I added pH down, I've pH adjusted every watering) to see if they'll turn around. I have more seeds but I know one thing for sure, the next sign of burn the pic is going straight into plant hospital, not a grow update, lol.

Btw, I recommend pic 16, it's the best I've taken so far. I think I'm mastering the focus of my iPhone.

PSUAGRO. said:

Your girls are in trouble/might be to far gone............for flushing in soil, double the amount per gallon of soil/medium(3gallons= flush w 6 gallons of water).....BUT you need to find out the ph of your water/tap before doing anything!.....ffof does not kill like this, your watering habits are heavy also, flushing will make it worse right now.....IMO you need to let them get bone dry, find out your water's ph! or buy RO water from the store, and then flush....after keep drying them out between waterings (get a moisture probe from HD or lowes if you need help with it) and don't give them any nutes/additives till early flowering(very low dose of p-k).....If you really want to still spend money to save them give them some of this http://www.usethrive.com/store/PlantThrive/ to help with the toxicity symptons(your water must be chlorine free)............good luck

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Just curious but where did you hear FFOF doesn't burn plants i can show you about 100 threads on RIU that says likewise.It is a very hot mix and shouldn't be used on young plants if your using it that's your issue!.I however do agree with the over watering a common newbie mistake.

ThegrowerMOJO said:

Just curious but where did you hear FFOF doesn't burn plants i can show you about 100 threads on RIU that says likewise.It is a very hot mix and shouldn't be used on young plants if your using it that's your issue!.I however do agree with the over watering a common newbie mistake.

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Just watching and waiting, going to see if they'll make it. I've never grown before let alone expected to experience this much nute burn. If they do come around what can I expect? Is there anything that can be cheaply bought to somehow stabilize this burn? It seems really crappy that I'm going to have to start all over simply because I chose the wrong soil based off advice. In the back of my head I was hoping the plants would pull through and all those reports of FFOF burn would simply equal higher yield as I'd be doing everything right, looks like I was wrong. If indeed these 3 feminized Chiesel seeds die and I end up having to start from seed/scratch again, what soil would you recommend (I know I'm possibly making the same mistake)?

There is nothing wrong with FFOF i use it as well just have to mix it with a light mix or some good quality regular potting soil when the plants are young.What i would suggest for you is to buy some miracle grow( i know) but just use it for seedlings and clones and transplant to FFOF in larger pots as soon as they get a good start on life.The happy frog is a little less potent but have heard of it burning youngsters as well.You will learn very few knock it out of park first time at bat.Good luck.And just to add with FFOF you shouldn't even have to use any kind of fertilizer until around week 2-3 of bud if at all.

ThegrowerMOJO said:

Just curious but where did you hear FFOF doesn't burn plants i can show you about 100 threads on RIU that says likewise.It is a very hot mix and shouldn't be used on young plants if your using it that's your issue!.I however do agree with the over watering a common newbie mistake.

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I never said burn A soil mix should not KILL MJ like the op's girls are showing http://foxfarmfertilizer.com/products_soils1.html yes it is a little "hot" straight out of the bag but I can show you 100 threads showing good results with this soil also, or with MG products(which you recommended^^ and I don't at all IMO)......this is grower error (no offence Bilgerat) and if he adds some beni bacteria he might still be able to save them/ with good watering habits........good luck

PSUAGRO. said:

I never said burn A soil mix should not KILL MJ like the op's girls are showing http://foxfarmfertilizer.com/products_soils1.html yes it is a little "hot" straight out of the bag but I can show you 100 threads showing good results with this soil also, or with MG products(which you recommended^^ and I don't at all IMO)......this is grower error (no offence Bilgerat) and if he adds some beni bacteria he might still be able to save them/ with good watering habits........good luck

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Everything I've done with these plants is within these pages, my logs show my watering schedule and I thank you for following me along, but I'd like to know where I went wrong if I've been maintaining and monitoring stable pH, RH, temps, air flow, light and waterings? I followed the procedure of letting the pots dry out for 5-6 days to a T, allowing for additional root growth and being wary of over watering. I spent about 20-30 min checking the pH of my water with the meter, dye, calibrating the meter, pHing different water brands, etc. Unless my brand new straight in Hanna digital pH meter is broken (not sure how seeing as how I tested it against the dye) then I suppose the soil isn't blameless. Is it really that much of a mystery that we should speculate it's something I could have done to it while it was in the bag? Did I perhaps check on the germinating seed bag too many times resulting in a perfect start up until a month later not being the fault of FFOF? I really just wanted to get this right once and it sucks to see that despite the enormous research/study I've done for my first grow I still have people coming back and telling me the soils fine and it's my fault....

Bilgerat said:

Everything I've done with these plants is within these pages, my logs show my watering schedule and I thank you for following me along, but I'd like to know where I went wrong if I've been maintaining and monitoring stable pH, RH, temps, air flow, light and waterings? I followed the procedure of letting the pots dry out for 5-6 days to a T, allowing for additional root growth and being wary of over watering. I spent about 20-30 min checking the pH of my water with the meter, dye, calibrating the meter, pHing different water brands, etc. Unless my brand new straight in Hanna digital pH meter is broken (not sure how seeing as how I tested it against the dye) then I suppose the soil isn't blameless. Is it really that much of a mystery that we should speculate it's something I could have done to it while it was in the bag? Did I perhaps check on the germinating seed bag too many times resulting in a perfect start up until a month later not being the fault of FFOF? I really just wanted to get this right once and it sucks to see that despite the enormous research/study I've done for my first grow I still have people coming back and telling me the soils fine and it's my fault....

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Ok....so I've gone back and read through this thread(bored until the eagles play/fu giants!). Now I saw through your pics that they were germed in ffof and had NO issues then transplanted into 3g with more ffof and no issue for TEN days after that. So this DEADLY soil didn't do any damage when they were seedlings and MOST susceptible to nute burn. This tells me something was added or your ph IS OFF, due to it taking about two-three weeks to show in a ph balanced soil like ffof(6.3-6.9)

1......you say you havent added ANYTHING other than water...... correct?
2......some advised you to add cal/mag, you never responded....did you? A calcium toxicity will lockout ALL micronutrients and MAG which your latest pics ^^show, A magnesium toxicity will give you a salt build up which will kill everything!
3.......your meter's probe may be broken/malfunctioning
4......you are overwatering(sorry but true IMO) and with cold temps at lights off or on(with leds) will cause multiple problems with your root health, and kill your plants.....FYI..I watered up to eight days in between with my leds in temps above 90f and in a COCCO medium!! it takes a long time for water to transpire under leds/ it's the #1 killer that I've seen for new led users...........

good luck and I'm not trying to be a asshole towards you/ just helping