convince me led is worth it.

Abiqua said:

I have been "building" lights since 2013, but thanks......

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Wasn't meaning you should build lights Abiqua, you are one of the many knowledgeable posters I was referring to..... unintentional misleading quote

coppershot said:

Buddy you said yourself in this very thread that you were on a timeout presumably imposed by mods. You're a bit of dim light eh..... maybe change the bulb and smarten up.

Oh and thanks for the pm. It made me laugh. You mad bro? Lol

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I said i just got off restriction and I also said I usually get locked out of your dumb threads. It's your light that's dim,snitch

Budies 101 said:

I don't think you make people angry, it's more like this is a place to learn about LED and how to make the best LED's for growing and you seem like you are against learning anything and enjoy proving you know exceptionally little about the subject.

I'm not trying to insult you as I have never been very active on these boards and so never run into you before. The first time I encounter you it's clear you are way in over your head, either you can't see you are out of your depth or you are proud of your lack of knowledge on the subject matter and your comments then appear to come off as Trolling. So again it's not that you anger people, it's more that this is a place for learning and you seem to be getting more ignorant rather than understanding better what people around you are discussing.

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when i want to learn how to go backwards with my growing, i'll look into it, but thanks for the advise

Chip Green said:

Wasn't meaning you should build lights Abiqua, you are one of the many knowledgeable posters I was referring to..... unintentional misleading quote

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sorry ...I was in cut thru the bullshit mode...apologies

No apology necessary, intention was for thread starter to pay attention to guys like you, worked wonders for me....

@CCCmints

maybe this would help, lets look at this like a math problem with some raw numbers, guestimates if you will....

Lets take the 1000w DE from Gav, draw about 1100 watts from the wall....

Averages around 400PPF, without penalty from bulb use, cleaning the glass and loss from reflector....Supra used to say and was heavily agreed with, that this penalty was around 20% reduction in PPF output....

So 20 of 400 leaves you with around 300-350 PPF lets say....that is an efficiency north of 35% but less than 40% and efficacy is a another issue as well....

There are several examples to make someone go crazy with math, to calculate photon output from LED's, "equal" to HPS output....

Here is one example....
The Cost Example

Lets take the Vero 29C, these are the 70 volt versions[roughy 67vF at this amperage>] and lets run them at 1050 milliamps of current.
Before loss, they average 55% effiency at 1050mA....and lets say we maintain 50% eff with HLG Meanwell drivers to guesstimate photon count....you would need basically between 600-700 watts of wall output to equal the Gavita 1kw...

Then lets talk possible efficacy issues.....maybe you have a hard red spectrum [Meat chips are 1750K even "redder" than HPS spectrum] but enough blue [which is why Metal Halides were mixed in the old dayz....] to offset the red and maintain a better equilibrium thru the different photo systems....


The Mega Cost example....

Lets run those newfangled Samsung diodes as an example where price isn't considered...

Run them at 70% efficiency and "match" the output of an 1kw HPS with about 500 watts
[500 * .7 = 350]


Check these out

Chip Green said:

No apology necessary, intention was for thread starter to pay attention to guys like you, worked wonders for me....

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stoned-monkey said:

I would be down to build one. I am sure i have the skill now just need to get the knoweldge.
I want an led to save energy (maybe money) reduce waste and perhaps better spectrum. The hang up is cost thus why I asked. I know you can get good results from almost any light source but at what cost(money yield potency terpene etc.)
I will be checking out more of the countless threads. or just buy a dam king plus led(whatever else in that range) and hope it wasn't a complete waste. Those things do have great rating on Amazon. For what's that's worth. I guess maybe a better question is why did you go led? Which one? Was it worth it?

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i would say buy the 1kw and keep up to date on led trends....

I think it's realistic to say there are reasonable solutions for 600w replacement lamps in the 55-60% efficiency category, not taking into account radiation pattern, reflective loss, etc.

To replace DE it takes around 750-800w of the same efficiency.

It seems pretty good to me seeing as how when I got into the hobby it was possible to build a lamp that would match 1000w HPS with 1000 watts of LED. That was only about 4-5 years ago.

I just caught up on this thread and I'm struck by what some people will spend their time saying on the internet. Apparently the trolls really don't have anything better to do with their time and I find that sad...

I ran 900W of COB LED for 24 sq ft. Another pic, 3 plants, 72 sq ft, 2700W;

What did that 900watts of cobs yield @ttystikk?

Madmungo said:

What did that 900watts of cobs yield @ttystikk?

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Usually 25-27oz, sometimes as much as 32. Big plants sacrifice a lil gpw vs smaller ones filling the same space. Quality was on point.

ttystikk said:

Usually 25-27oz, sometimes as much as 32. Big plants sacrifice a lil gpw vs smaller ones filling the same space. Quality was on point.

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Still not bad, it used to take me 2x600 HPS in 25sq ft to get yields like that!

Abiqua said:

@CCCmints

maybe this would help, lets look at this like a math problem with some raw numbers, guestimates if you will....

Lets take the 1000w DE from Gav, draw about 1100 watts from the wall....

Averages around 400PPF, without penalty from bulb use, cleaning the glass and loss from reflector....Supra used to say and was heavily agreed with, that this penalty was around 20% reduction in PPF output....

So 20 of 400 leaves you with around 300-350 PPF lets say....that is an efficiency north of 35% but less than 40% and efficacy is a another issue as well....

There are several examples to make someone go crazy with math, to calculate photon output from LED's, "equal" to HPS output....

Here is one example....
The Cost Example

Lets take the Vero 29C, these are the 70 volt versions[roughy 67vF at this amperage>] and lets run them at 1050 milliamps of current.
Before loss, they average 55% effiency at 1050mA....and lets say we maintain 50% eff with HLG Meanwell drivers to guesstimate photon count....you would need basically between 600-700 watts of wall output to equal the Gavita 1kw...

Then lets talk possible efficacy issues.....maybe you have a hard red spectrum [Meat chips are 1750K even "redder" than HPS spectrum] but enough blue [which is why Metal Halides were mixed in the old dayz....] to offset the red and maintain a better equilibrium thru the different photo systems....


The Mega Cost example....

Lets run those newfangled Samsung diodes as an example where price isn't considered...

Run them at 70% efficiency and "match" the output of an 1kw HPS with about 500 watts
[500 * .7 = 350]


Check these out

Click to expand...

Thank-you for posting those links I'll be checking them out when I get the time. It seems like you're misunderstanding my posts to be honest with you though. I'm in favor of LED. In this thread I've only ever argued in favor of LED. I was asking for technical arguments in favor of HPS over LED.

Budies 101 said:

I'd say more like 600watts of LED is equal to 100watts HPS. You have to realize that it's about the quality of the parts, a COB or chip of led is like a bulb, you can have a super cheap garbage bulb/cob/diode or you can have super high end. There are VERY few commercial companies using top end LED parts and that's why DIY is around.

Lets say I can build my light for 260$ USD, thats driver, PCB, trim, chord, heatsink and any other little stuff... is that not do able in Canada? If not it sounds like Can'tada! HAhahahahaha =D playing is all.

Here is the PCB I had built. View attachment 4011092

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I haven't priced it out in a bit but when I was it was like 75% more once the difference in currency and shipping was figured, for higher end chips and drivers. I do want to build a couple but there is also the fact I need heat in the winter when I grow indoors so I'd be giving up heat only to have to supplement with resistive so there is more to it for me than light efficiencies.

ttystikk said:

Usually 25-27oz, sometimes as much as 32. Big plants sacrifice a lil gpw vs smaller ones filling the same space. Quality was on point.

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Just to clarify, the last pic has 2700 watts and you harvest 80 ounces off that wall?

This thread has again tweaked my interest and starting to look again. As a person that knows shit about it I'm looking to steal a design and that's where I get confused about coverage. I can cover a 4x8 area nicely with two 600's but when I look at the coverage of the lights advertised here I'm getting that I would need 1200 watts at the wall to get the same coverage. That's where I don't get the same yield/coverage for close to half the wattage. My first build will probably use cheaper COB's with close to the same specs and all I really, at this time, would be able to go by is lm/w .

Dr.Nick Riviera said:

I said i just got off restriction and I also said I usually get locked out of your dumb threads. It's your light that's dim,snitch

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The biggest reason to look hard at LED for growing is because you could end up sounding like DNR. No one really wants to look out of touch and clueless on any subject, so educate yourself, build a light or buy a quality pre made one. Notice no one goes from the high end diy LED builds BACK to HPS.

Budley Doright said:

This thread has again tweaked my interest and starting to look again. As a person that knows shit about it I'm looking to steal a design and that's where I get confused about coverage. I can cover a 4x8 area nicely with two 600's but when I look at the coverage of the lights advertised here I'm getting that I would need 1200 watts at the wall to get the same coverage. That's where I don't get the same yield/coverage for close to half the wattage. My first build will probably use cheaper COB's with close to the same specs and all I really, at this time, would be able to go by is lm/w .

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You would be using the same wattage but delivering more light.

Replace 1 of the 600w HIDs with LED and do a run, see what you think. I'm an LED proponent but it's smart to test new tech out before replacing the old tech.

Budley Doright said:

This thread has again tweaked my interest and starting to look again. As a person that knows shit about it I'm looking to steal a design and that's where I get confused about coverage. I can cover a 4x8 area nicely with two 600's but when I look at the coverage of the lights advertised here I'm getting that I would need 1200 watts at the wall to get the same coverage. That's where I don't get the same yield/coverage for close to half the wattage. My first build will probably use cheaper COB's with close to the same specs and all I really, at this time, would be able to go by is lm/w .

Click to expand...

If you're doing just fine with two 600s, you could replace them with two roughly 400w LED fixtures, and have about the same amount of light. If you replace your two 600s with 1200w of LED, you'll probably have about 30-40% more photons available to your plants. The question is, do you want/need that extra light?