Cutting fan leaves

johnnytoobad

Active Member
nice answers gentlemen.... Im not cutting whole fan leaves off. I am cutting fan leaves down 50%. I have a partial shade group and a full sun group. and a non cut group and a short rider in a pot. so im all set. I hope to keep the growth compact small stunted weired out lst and femming and evrything man........dont worry some are gonna be left alone.......and we will see what happens.......:clap:
this was the 2nd or 3rd post of the thread by me....Sometimes people over take a thread not really understanding what the thread is all about. I was and am in a current state of experimentation first hand....The thread is was to see what limitsothers have pushed in the way of cutting fan leaves for a more stealthy plant......Because a plant that blends in is better than a monster humdinger that will be seen......ah-hem mother gulfster
 

johnnytoobad

Active Member
This forum is such a joke...

Does an apple in the shade grow any less than one in the sun? You think you can do better than a century of botanists? :o

Look at this pic, 4 buds that developed in ZERO light on the bottom of a dwarf white russian autoflower. These things were in the dirt basically, and were the last buds to start growing, but they grew and would have kept growing had it not been chop time. Now how would they have grown at all, based on your theories, not receiving any light?



i think the first post on pg 9 pertains to this post....if im wrong i apologize
 

johnnytoobad

Active Member
This forum is such a joke...

Does an apple in the shade grow any less than one in the sun? You think you can do better than a century of botanists? :o

Look at this pic, 4 buds that developed in ZERO light on the bottom of a dwarf white russian autoflower. These things were in the dirt basically, and were the last buds to start growing, but they grew and would have kept growing had it not been chop time. Now how would they have grown at all, based on your theories, not receiving any light?



i think the first post on pg 9 pertains to this post....if im wrong i apologize. who said nething about 0 light? And yes i can do better than a century of botanist because they were not getting their botany on in my yard. Nor were they thinkin what johnnytoobad wanted or had to work with. But maybe u should shed some light on where the zero light comment came from bloke....peace out :)
 

Brick Top

New Member
This forum is such a joke...

Does an apple in the shade grow any less than one in the sun? You think you can do better than a century of botanists?


I have preached my sermon against cutting off fan leaves to provide increased amounts of light to buds enough times that I am not going to do it again … not right now anyway.

But I will make the comment that in general on sites like this, and in some cases with people you talk to .. depending of course on who you know … a large number of members/people will do all they can to keep any actual proven botanical facts from being allowed in a growing discussion.

There are so many ‘things work this way because that’s how I believe they work’ or ‘I do things this way because I read somewhere it was best’ things that many growers seem to love, and in extreme cases need to believe, that if someone pulls out a botanical fact people don’t like it. It takes one or some of those beloved ‘beliefs’ and instantly disproves them and that cannot be allowed.

Other than in what could be called a small number of very unique plants, for the most part most proven botanical facts pretty much apply across the board to everything else. Yes there are variations and degrees of things connected that makes things better here and there for this type of plant or that, but the general facts do apply across the board.

For some reason a goodly number of pot growers seem to believe that marijuana is a very unique plant with needs and ways of doing things that are outside that of proven botanical science. It is a darn good thing for people who believe that marijuana is so unique that what has been proven for ages does not apply to marijuana, because if it were that unique, most likely those same people would be unable to grow it.

Everyone who grows for a fair bit of time or longer will have their fair share of ups and downs but there will be something of an average to the level of their growing results that could be ranked or rated or detected or whatever at each step of growing. They will be able to look at plants and know if they are ahead of/doing better than normal or if they are behind. After they grow long enough they reach some level of consistency and more or less remain there, unless they change their system/setup and improve it anyway. They will pretty much figure out how to tickle out all there is to get out of their system/setup and not counting the now and then lightning strikes or a gusher is drilled grows their ups and downs, highs and lows will be minimal in difference.

The most consistent grower that I have ever personally known, the one who had the highest level of consistent success over a number of years is my brother in law. He doesn’t grow any more, hasn’t for a pretty good number of years now, but when he did he was a magician.

He was also earning his degree in botany when I first met him and then of course carried on with his hobby for some years after earning his degree in botany.

He learned, and I believe even stopped, pre-Internet. He never had sites like this where he could spend an entire day reading information and advice that very seldom was totally correct and most of the time was at best only partially accurate and a good bit of the time was pure fantasy passed off as facts. He never learned the myths and growing legends and half-truths and misconceptions and misperceptions and the connected dots that were never supposed to be connected so when connected they created the wrong picture etc.

All he had to rely on was the botany books he was learning from and what his botany professors were teaching him botany, and a mess-o-Dalet seeds he shipped from Vietnam, and in time others strains too.

In spite of the tremendous handicap he faced he still managed to be incredibly impressive in his results.

I am not saying he was the greatest grower the world has ever known and that no one here might be as good or even better …. that is possible … though I would feel safe in saying if he would be topped it would not be done by many or happen very often …. but he is the most consistently successful, or was anyway when growing, out of all the growers I have ever known and he had none of what so many now almost totally rely on now for the source of their information and instead totally relied on what very few have even the slightest use in.

If I could wind back the clock if I did not include at least some basic botany courses when I went to college, after graduating I would have at least hit a local jr. college or something and took a few courses in botany. I would have learned a lot of things a lot quicker and in the end I would also have learned way more so it would have been a plus almost from the start.

I would really suggest that any young grower find some way to learn at least basic botany. Take a course or three while in college or take a couple nights a week and hit a local jr. college and take a couple courses rather than watching a couple more games each week. If not at least purchase a few highly rated books on botany and or search the Internet and read.

It will not be marijuana specific knowledge and it will most likely leave out interesting things like the inner workings of the marijuana plant’s trichome head, trichome heads would be covered but it would not be amazing if there was little to nothing about marijuana plant trichome heads.

Still though the more you know about how plants work the more certain things will make sense and the more you will laugh at the things that are claimed to be facts daily on sites like this and the more you will be able to add bits of marijuana specific information that are accurate to what you have learned and then know even more …. and once you do that you will be as good as you can get …… as will your results.
 

ataxia

Well-Known Member
Agree with not cutting fan leaves.. however .. What if the Seed Company calls for thinning the large fan leaves??? This is what they suggest when growing DNA L.A. Woman. i was skeptical of cutting any fan leaves so i just ..well thinned them out. Didn't chop them off ... just cut some tips to try and get some light to the bottom of the main cola. (my light penetration sucks due to cfls and insufficient amount of them.
 

DaveCoulier

Well-Known Member
Agree with not cutting fan leaves.. however .. What if the Seed Company calls for thinning the large fan leaves??? This is what they suggest when growing DNA L.A. Woman. i was skeptical of cutting any fan leaves so i just ..well thinned them out. Didn't chop them off ... just cut some tips to try and get some light to the bottom of the main cola. (my light penetration sucks due to cfls and insufficient amount of them.
Although, I know nothing of DNA genetics, just because someone is a breeder, it doesn't mean they know everything about growing.

Some people will say thinning fan leaves to allow light to reach lower buds will increase lower bud size, but buds dont drive photosynthesis, and growth. The leaves do. Where do you think they got their 'energy' in the first place to grow? The buds didn't just spontaneously appear and supply their own 'energy' sources to drive their own growth. If that were the case, it seems like a really inefficient way of growing wouldn't you say? You need those fan leaves to drive bud growth.

When you thin the canopy, all you've done is reduced 'energy' sources for the upper colas, and increased it somewhat for the lower bud sites as more red light, and less far red light reaches them(light passes through leaves and lower leaves get more far-red lighting as a result). Yet, those lower buds still take longer to actually grow. MJ flowers from TOP to BOTTOM. This is basic botany. Knowing which order plants flower is important. Some flower from top to bottom, others bottom to top. Knowing that MJ is a top to bottom plant, shouldn't our main focus be on having a very lush healthy canopy for our main colas?

Hope that helps :)
 

johnnytoobad

Active Member
nice post bricktop alas why does my message get lost in the rhetoric....I think a gardner ultimately bgins to experiment at some pt. (Ive been growing other plants for a long while) so my final result is gonna be a plant done in about 3 months less than 12 inches tall with a 3 to 5 gram bud. thats what i got for cutting the fan leaves i did , lst and other training....THATS ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT I WANTED. A SHORT WEIRDED OUT STUNTED POT PLANT
Ive learned alot about the solar energy and sun and how marijuana use it thru its fan leaves. COMMON SENSE REALLY. this thread aint for no newb... I grew a bagseed pot plant to match my short rider in stature. I find that a true sucess as well as a confidence booster that my botanical skills are where they should be.....a person doesnt have to buy autos with the right climate. a person does not have to buy a breed thats short. they can do it themselves. even with LST u still get full growth so u need to manipulate more....once again ive grow and done exactly what i wanted....a regular pot plant to match a nirvana auto.......lmao I did good
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
I attended a vineyard canopy management field workshop and the pro was explaining the value of photosynthesis on leaves placed on the outside of the canopy and inside as it relates to full versus dappled sunlight (leaf movement caused by wind). He used brothers-in-the-household concept where the first outside leaf (brother) of the canopy receives 100% of the light and accordingly makes carbos to its fullest potential and is the most important to the welfare of the household. The second brother shaded by the first receives 10% of the light. He gets to lay around a bit. The 3rd brother behind the other two receives 1% of the light and is kicked out of the house. Now, you probably think cannabis in the same "light" but with some caveats - you have to keep in mind that leaf pulling in the vineyard is done to allow air and light into the interior of the canopy to cut down on grape bunch rot, improve anthocyanins, cut down on herbaceous taste in the wine, improve pesticide/fungicide spraying penetration, etc. It's not quite the same across the board, grapes to cannabis. I have never pulled leaves from pot plants and been satisfied with good production from the top to the bottom.

UB
 

bigsourD

Well-Known Member
I have never pulled leaves from pot plants and been satisfied with good production from the top to the bottom.
Same here... and I agree. I feel that it's important to have those leaves. On the other hand, why not just scrog if you're not satisfied with your light penetration?
 

johnnytoobad

Active Member
so what do you gentleman suggest i do for getting pot plants to grow less than 2 ft tall and stealth them...train did that topped did that lst did that cut fan leaves did that. Just kinda kooky to me that cutting fan leaves is so taboo...i mean really....nobodys has said good job u did what u wanted to do with the results u sought. kinda messed up. well im sure alot of you have pittbulls and blame bad owners not dogs.....that sez it all.......Pitbulls suck and their owners reflect the breed. (and the wick is lit)
 

sixstring2112

Well-Known Member
Top them better or find a shorter strain,as long as you dont top right before flower you will be fine. I cut maybe 20 fans off this one and i only cut really bad nute burned or inside leaves that were yellow and dead, and it has nice healthy buds right down inside the plant.Its like saying a v8 engine will somehow run better if you take out 6 of the spark plugs
 

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Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Same here... and I agree. I feel that it's important to have those leaves. On the other hand, why not just scrog if you're not satisfied with your light penetration?
You must be getting me mixed up with those who don't understand the function of a leaf. I've never had light penetration problems with 5' tall plants crammed into a garden.

SCROG is a PITA and for those who don't mind being a slave to their plants.
 

sixstring2112

Well-Known Member
That's a cutie. I posted pics for other guys on the chop wagon. you can def. grow em stealthy. Love your take on pitbulls. another log on the fire:)
 

johnnytoobad

Active Member
That's a cutie. I posted pics for other guys on the chop wagon. you can def. grow em stealthy. Love your take on pitbulls. another log on the fire:)
ty ty very much.....where are the "chop wagon" pics....this thread has been a disaster for me as its been sidetracked by all the botanist on why u shouldnt cut fan leaves. and it was started because i needed a plant i thought would be manageable in a small garden.....Im confident now i have a handle on manipulating the plants growth to suit my needs.....Fan leaf cutter for life, (when circumstances call for it.....ty for calling it cute too.....it def is cute.....
 

bigsourD

Well-Known Member
I've never had light penetration problems with 5' tall plants crammed into a garden....
I wasn't directing that to you UB, I know you know what you're doing. And I've never had penetration problems either. Never any training or any of that other bs, and I've always been satisfied with my buds from the bottom up.
 

Schotzky

Well-Known Member
i just read on here in a thread about doubling yield.
if done right topping and trimming leaves can increase the branches therefor producing more buds ***IF DONE RIGHT
ok, so it said to top the plant after the 4th node.
and then trim the fan leaves ON THE MAIN STEM ONLY in a stair step pattern starting from the bottom. to explain this better start with the first one, either left or right and clip it near the base, and then go to the opposite one above it and clip it etc etc. this should take exactly half of the fan leaves on the MAIN STEM ONLY
this really can help if your outdoors and trying to have smaller plants with the same or more yield. they get bushier instead of taller
good luck
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
i just read on here in a thread about doubling yield.
if done right topping and trimming leaves can increase the branches therefor producing more buds ***IF DONE RIGHT
ok, so it said to top the plant after the 4th node.
and then trim the fan leaves ON THE MAIN STEM ONLY in a stair step pattern starting from the bottom. to explain this better start with the first one, either left or right and clip it near the base, and then go to the opposite one above it and clip it etc etc. this should take exactly half of the fan leaves on the MAIN STEM ONLY
this really can help if your outdoors and trying to have smaller plants with the same or more yield. they get bushier instead of taller
good luck
More forum hype....
 

Tagh

Active Member
In every situation known to man someone else always has a different opinion...

Hmm just came up with that. Sounds like a fitting RIU sig
 
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